Unusual notes and coins/wages paid in cash discussion

[81A]

How do things stand if the ticket machine accepts cash but not the specific cash you have?

For example, let's say I turn up with a £50 note, 2 2p coins and a penny for a £50.05 fare. The ticket machine does not take £50 notes or copper coins. I have perfectly reasonable cash to pay for the ticket (the NRCOT just says "cash" not what type of coins/notes), the ticket machine takes cash (so can't get promise to pay) but won't accept my cash. Can I pay on board? Do I have to find a bank or post office to change my cash for "acceptable" cash?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How do things stand if the ticket machine accepts cash but not the specific cash you have?

For example, let's say I turn up with a £50 note, 2 2p coins and a penny for a £50.05 fare. The ticket machine does not take £50 notes or copper coins. I have perfectly reasonable cash to pay for the ticket (the NRCOT just says "cash" not what type of coins/notes), the ticket machine takes cash (so can't get promise to pay) but won't accept my cash. Can I pay on board? Do I have to find a bank or post office to change my cash for "acceptable" cash?

The coppers might be an issue, but it is well established in the UK that the £50 note basically does not exist. They are very rarely given out and almost no businesses accept them. Thus I doubt it would be considered "acceptable" and presumably therefore an Unpaid Fares Notice for the full fare (which is over £10 and thus not affected by this scheme in any way) would presumably be issued. In Scotland of course prosecution is effectively impossible so I can't see what other course of action would be open to them.

 

[81A]

The coppers might be an issue, but it is well established in the UK that the £50 note basically does not exist. They are very rarely given out and almost no businesses accept them. Thus I doubt it would be considered "acceptable" and presumably therefore an Unpaid Fares Notice for the full fare (which is over £10 and thus not affected by this scheme in any way) would presumably be issued.

Some cash machines (at big Tescos for example) do seem to do £50 notes, so they are rare but hardly non existent. Also, if this scheme is eventually changed to charge a higher "minimum fare" (the aim to reduce on board sales makes this seem likely), the £50 notes issue becomes more likely to come up (and the copper issue is already plausible).

Basically, it seems like there should be clarification in the NRCOT about what cash is allowed (since combinations like the one I mentioned are hardly crazy like, say, paying £100 in copper would be), since otherwise one is left in the position of wondering whether ones cash is "acceptable" (where does it stop; if an old machine won't take King Charles notes-and I think some still have this issue-what happens?).

 

[najaB]

How do things stand if the ticket machine accepts cash but not the specific cash you have?

For example, let's say I turn up with a £50 note, 2 2p coins and a penny for a £50.05 fare. The ticket machine does not take £50 notes or copper coins. I have perfectly reasonable cash to pay for the ticket (the NRCOT just says "cash" not what type of coins/notes), the ticket machine takes cash (so can't get promise to pay) but won't accept my cash. Can I pay on board? Do I have to find a bank or post office to change my cash for "acceptable" cash?

And the blind, one-legged, gluten intolerant, pensioner with a bag full of 5p coins has made their scheduled appearance in the thread...

This scheme is like a primary sewage treatment plant - it's intended to catch the big bits of ****. So if someone wants to walk around with a £50 note so that they can save themselves £4.50 if they happen to get stopped bunking off paying for their ticket, so be it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some cash machines (at big Tescos for example) do seem to do £50 notes

Really? I have never, in my entire life, been issued a £50 note from a cash machine. I think I've held one in my hands once in my whole nearly 47 years.

I have been issued with a CHF200 note (about £150) from a Swiss cash machine, which made me worry a bit, but that was accepted for roughly CHF10 worth of sandwich and crisps from the Co-op next to it without any hassle - it's just seen as normal there.

Basically, it seems like there should be clarification in the NRCOT about what cash is allowed (since combinations like the one I mentioned are hardly crazy like, say, paying £100 in copper would be), since otherwise one is left in the position of wondering whether ones cash is "acceptable" (where does it stop; if an old machine won't take King Charles notes-and I think some still have this issue-what happens?).

Do ScotRail have any cash TVMs? To be fair, if they do, if your cash wasn't accepted (film it being rejected on your phone) I can't see there being a problem. ScotRail just doesn't act like English TOCs.

(Scottish notes are an issue in England sometimes - but this is Scotland!)

 

[najaB]

Some cash machines (at big Tescos for example) do seem to do £50 notes, so they are rare but hardly non existent.

I find that *very* surprising. For it make sense for the machine to have £50 notes, the average withdrawal would need to be well over £100. These days I'm willing to bet that most people take less than £50 at a time. I certainly can't remember the last time I took more than £40 in one go.

 

[81A]

recReally? I have never, in my entire life, been issued a £50 note from a cash machine. I think I've held one in my hands once in my whole nearly 47 years.

I have been issued with a CHF200 note (about £150) from a Swiss cash machine, which made me worry a bit, but that was accepted for roughly CHF10 worth of sandwich and crisps from the Co-op next to it without any hassle - it's just seen as normal there.



Do ScotRail have any cash TVMs? To be fair, if they do, if your cash wasn't accepted (film it being rejected on your phone) I can't see there being a problem. ScotRail just doesn't act like English TOCs.

(Scottish notes are an issue in England sometimes - but this is Scotland!)

This Reddit thread has an example of a cash machine doing 50s: 50 notes Reddit thread.

Unless their website is wrong (scotrail page listing TVMs-some of which accept cash) Scotrail have some cash TVMs.

 

[najaB]

This Reddit thread has an example of a cash machine doing 50s: 50 notes Reddit thread.

Not wanting to derail this thread too much, that Reddit thread consists mainly of people casting doubt on the OP's claim.

I threw the question to Google Gemini:

How common is it for UK ATMs to dispense £50 notes?

It is extremely rare for UK ATMs to dispense £50 notes. The vast majority of cash machines only hold cassettes configured to dispense £10 and £20 notes, with select machines also offering £5 notes. [1, 2, 3]

Where to Find Them
If an ATM does stock £50 notes, it is typically limited to:

• High-traffic transport hubs or international airports
• Specialized locations like casinos, racecourses, or high-end nightclubs
• Selected branches of major banks (such as NatWest or Tesco Bank) in large city centres, which explicitly advertise the service on the machine.

So, while it's not impossible, it's not likely to be common enough to be worth worrying about.

Edit: Some additional information. The typical ATM has four cassettes, so at most can dispense four different values. Typically they will load two with £10 and two with £20 notes. If they were to load £50 notes that would mean the machine would be likely to run out of £10s or £20s much more quickly and then go out of service.

 

[81A]

So, while it's not impossible, it's not likely to be common enough to be worth worrying about.

True but I did say:

they are rare but hardly non existent

I was hardly implying they are very common, just that they do exist in general circulation (though in limited quantities). For the purpose of this thread, I just think it should be clarified in the NRCOT (say by writing "accepted payment methods: cash (excluding £50 notes, 1p and 2p coins), card, voucher") or by having them accepted on board with no fuss (as @Bletchleyite suggests would happen).

 

[najaB]

I just think it should be clarified in the NRCOT (say by writing "accepted payment methods: cash (excluding £50 notes, 1p and 2p coins), card, voucher") or by having them accepted on board with no fuss (as @Bletchleyite suggests would happen).

I don't even think it's worth writing that into the NRCoT since if I'm paying for a ticket that is £51 then it's perfectly reasonable to pay with a £50 note. (Same goes for a £101 fare and a £100 note).

If the idea is stopping people presenting notes that are "too big" then perhaps something along the lines of "Cash (notes larger than 2 times the fare may be rejected), credit/debit card, voucher..." or similar.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't even think it's worth writing that into the NRCoT since if I'm paying for a ticket that is £51 then it's perfectly reasonable to pay with a £50 note. (Same goes for a £101 fare and a £100 note).

£100 notes are of course solely a Scottish thing. They don't exist in England.

How often do you see them though? Less often than a 50 I would venture...

 

[mmh]

We are talking about Scotland, though.

£50 notes aren't commonplace, but they're also not as rare as some are making out. Take more than a couple of hundred out of a bank and, unless you ask otherwise, you're going to be likely to given them.

If someone's paying for something approaching £1000 or more £50 notes are far less cumbersome.

If you've ever worked in a cash taking business you'll likely have been offered one - whether you accepted it is another matter of course!

 

[81A]

£100 notes are of course solely a Scottish thing. They don't exist in England.

How often do you see them though? Less often than a 50 I would venture...

Exactly, asking Gemini ai I get:

The short answer is no, standard cash machines (ATMs) do not dispense Scottish £100 notes.

ATMs are highly optimized for speed and daily consumer spending, which dictates the types of cash they carry:

• The standard ATM mix: Cash machines in Scotland are almost exclusively loaded with £10 and £20 notes. In some busy locations or machines attached to major bank branches, you might occasionally get a £50 note if you are withdrawing a very large sum, but even that is relatively rare.
• Why £100 notes are excluded: Because high-value notes like the £100 note are rarely used in daily retail transactions, banks don't stock them in ATMs. Doing so would take up valuable physical space inside the machine's cash cassettes that could otherwise hold the lower-denomination notes people actually need for everyday spending.

How to get a Scottish £100 note If you specifically want a polymer £100 note (issued by the Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank of Scotland, or Clydesdale Bank) for a large transaction, a gift, or as a collector's item, you will need to go inside a major Scottish bank branch and request one directly from a teller at the counter.

Note: Be aware that many smaller shops across the UK—and especially south of the border in England and Wales—may look at a £100 note with suspicion or refuse to accept it simply because they are so rare and difficult to change!

I think there is less issue with £100s being hard to use because there seems to be no way to get them without specially requesting one (while even in response to the £100s question Gemini admits £50s are sometimes issued form cash machines, which don't give a choice of which notes).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2026 ==

We are talking about Scotland, though.

£50 notes aren't commonplace, but they're also not as rare as some are making out. Take more than a couple of hundred out of a bank and, unless you ask otherwise, you're going to be likely to given them.

If someone's paying for something approaching £1000 or more £50 notes are far less cumbersome.

If you've ever worked in a cash taking business you'll likely have been offered one - whether you accepted it is another matter of course!

Exactly my point-and this (the £50 notes/copper coins issue) seems to be a fairly important hole in this scheme (and most buy before you board type schemes in this country).

 

[Bletchleyite]

And I wouldn't want anyone to think I agree with charging peak fares at times when off-peak is valid as a form of punishment, or indeed of calculating the railway's alleged losses from alleged fare evasion on the basis of the peak fare if the journeys happened at times when off-peak tickets were valid. I certainly don't.

You may not agree with it but it has been standard practice right back to BR days.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2026 ==

Exactly my point-and this (the £50 notes/copper coins issue) seems to be a fairly important hole in this scheme (and most buy before you board type schemes in this country).

£50 notes are so rare (and so likely to be fake) that "proffering a £50 note" is probably something to add to the RailUK Standard Minority's list of characteristics as someone else alludes to.

Your average "ned" at whom this is mostly aimed is not going to have one.

 

[81A]

Your average "ned" at whom this is mostly aimed is not going to have one.

True-though going into a bank/large post office/certain cash machine to get one is an option if people work out this is a loophole (if it is one)…

I think copper is the bigger loophole though, as having just 5p in copper as part of a fare would seem to enable “pay when challenged“ as now with no threat of consequences (and not accepting copper would have issues unless suitably publicised before implementation) as copper is easy to obtain as change in most shops or from a post office.

 

[najaB]

How often do you see them though? Less often than a 50 I would venture...

I've only held them twice in the 20 years I've lived in Scotland.

£50 notes aren't commonplace, but they're also not as rare as some are making out. Take more than a couple of hundred out of a bank and, unless you ask otherwise, you're going to be likely to given them.

My experience was exactly the opposite in that both times I was withdrawing about £1,000 the teller asked if it was okay to give me £50s and £100s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jun 2026 ==

It is worth writing in if they are not accepted in practice! The very fact it is reasonable to use them for some tickets is why I think they should be accepted (the obvious course of action) or if not, have some warning given so people are not caught out.

Which would be covered by the "Notes larger than twice the value of the ticket may be rejected" or similar caveat on cash acceptance.

You could also add something around paying with more than <insert number> coins possibly being rejected.

 

[redreni]

The CitiBank cash machines at Canary Wharf used to issue £50 notes.

TfL's Conditions of Carriage specify what denominations of notes and coins they accept (£50 notes and copper coins not included), which presumably means if you want to buy a ticket using cash to travel on TfL and you only have a £50 note, you do indeed have to get change.

 

[najaB]

TfL's Conditions of Carriage specify what denominations of notes and coins they accept (£50 notes and copper coins not included), which presumably means if you want to buy a ticket using cash to travel on TfL and you only have a £50 note, you do indeed have to get change.

Are there many TfL fares over £50? It's not beyond the realms of credibility that a guard on a Stirling - Edinburgh Scotrail service might sell an Anytime Single ticket to London at £206, for which using £50 notes wouldn't be unreasonable.

 

[81A]

Which would be covered by the "Notes larger than twice the value of the ticket may be rejected" or similar caveat on cash acceptance.

You could also add something around paying with more than <insert number> coins possibly being rejected.

Agreed that adding a note of that type would solve the “awkward cash“ issue-as long as these denominations are accepted for fares where their use is reasonable (e.g. using a £50 for a £45 fare or using copper with a £5 note to make up a £5.05 fare). The problem is most (all?) ticket machines don’t take copper, 50s or 100s for any value fare, which makes buy before you board impossible to enforce unless these types of cash are excluded from ”cash” in the NRCOT.

 

[najaB]

The problem is most (all?) ticket machines don’t take copper, 50s or 100s for any value fare, which makes buy before you board impossible to enforce unless these types of cash are excluded from ”cash” in the NRCOT.

Only if guards/TOCs don't take a pragmatic approach and attempt to apply the rules inflexibly.

 

[island]

Edit: Some additional information. The typical ATM has four cassettes, so at most can dispense four different values. Typically they will load two with £10 and two with £20 notes. If they were to load £50 notes that would mean the machine would be likely to run out of £10s or £20s much more quickly and then go out of service.

An ATM won't (or shouldn't) go out of service if one cassette is empty, if it only has £50s it will just give an error if you try to take out something not a multiple of £50, same story with £20s.

Are there many TfL fares over £50? It's not beyond the realms of credibility that a guard on a Stirling - Edinburgh Scotrail service might sell an Anytime Single ticket to London at £206, for which using £50 notes wouldn't be unreasonable.

Brentwood to Twyford day return is £58 for example.

 

[najaB]

An ATM won't (or shouldn't) go out of service if one cassette is empty, if it only has £50s it will just give an error if you try to take out something not a multiple of £50, same story with £20s.

An ATM that could only dispense £50s is effectively out of order, given the lack of demand for £50s. If I want £30 and have to take £40 that's different than if I want £60 and have to take £100.

The other concern with an ATM dispensing £50 notes is that it makes it that much more attractive of a target. We already see JBCs being driven into bank walls to attempt to steal the ATM, with £50s the machine is worth at least 2.5 times as much as with £20s. A bank branch ATM might hold 2,000 notes in the cassette - people would do crazy things to potentially make off with 100 grand plus.[

 

[The exile]

Your average "ned" at whom this is mostly aimed is not going to have one.

Would suggest that some groups of them (maybe not the “average”) are far more likely to have them - though not to proffer them.

 

[The exile]

The criminal fraternity rather than the classic teenage "ned" yes but those sorts of people are much more likely to assault staff than cough up their fare when asked, whether it's £3 or £10.

Many of those well supplied with £50 notes would be taking good care not to draw attention to themselves over something as trivial as a £5 fare. We’d never notice if they’re successful, of course.

 

[8ace]

I was paid in cash for my first full time job, the weekly wage packet would usually include on or two bullseyes. I know a few people who still are, the boss goes to the bank friday lunchtime and withdraws the money for the lads over the counter including multiple £50 notes. So it's not that unusual for people to legitimate be carry them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was paid in cash for my first full time job, the weekly wage packet would usually include on or two bullseyes. I know a few people who still are, the boss goes to the bank friday lunchtime and withdraws the money for the lads over the counter including multiple £50 notes. So it's not that unusual for people to legitimate be carry them.

I think I'd say it's very unusual to be honest - these are just exceptions, as all good rules have.

Does anyone know what the railway's policy on 50s is? Are they accepted? If they are then this is a non-issue.

 

[The exile]

I think I'd say it's very unusual to be honest - these are just exceptions, as all good rules have.

And highly suspicious- surely all wages / salaries have had to be paid into bank accounts for about 40 years?

 

[Bletchleyite]

And highly suspicious- surely all wages / salaries have had to be paid into bank accounts for about 40 years?

It's legal to pay people in cash provided a proper payslip is done and all relevant tax/NI is paid. However it's not unusual for the reason for paying cash to be to evade those things - most businesses prefer bank transfer these days, and Making Tax Digital will push that further.

But certainly a 50 is a rarity!

 

[8ace]

And highly suspicious- surely all wages / salaries have had to be paid into bank accounts for about 40 years?

Well it was 30 years ago in my case, I was then paid by cheque for a few years after that.

 

[35B]

And highly suspicious- surely all wages / salaries have had to be paid into bank accounts for about 40 years?

I have signed salary cheques in the last 5 years.