London Buses Discussion

[Simon75]

Maybe commuters now realise it's not necessary to pay for TfL buses? Just get on and walk past the driver without paying is something I see multiple times on a single bus trip.

Ive used my non TFL issued ENCS cardand noticed they rarely push a button in the machines, so how many passes are not recorded?

 

[Qwertl]

Does anyone know if the current bus controller strike has been affecting who is running control on the Go Ahead 89?

We had buses chucking people off and driving off empty and 30-40 min gaps to the next one. That didn’t help the general situation with the rail signal failure at Slade Green.

 

[londonbridge]

Waiting for an SL7 at Carshalton High Street this morning, arrived full and standing with people jammed right up to the drivers cab. Driver kept front doors closed, opened the central exit doors and around half a dozen got off, then he motioned to us to use the central doors to board. Managed to squeeze on, got to Sutton, a few got off and he let people on at the front. At this point I was able to move to the back of the bottom deck. Cheam Broadway around 15-20 people waiting, some with large suitcases, who were turned away. Currently in between Worcester Park and New Malden, still rammed solid and haven’t been able to get anywhere near the front in order to tap in. Checked TFL status updates and see there’s disruption on the Piccadilly line but, even given that, it still seems exceptionally busy.

Edit: the bus has now turned left at the Fountain Roundabout along its normal line of route so I assume the long term diversion via the 213 route is over?

 

[MotCO]

Waiting for an SL7 at Carshalton High Street this morning, arrived full and standing with people jammed right up to the drivers cab. Driver kept front doors closed, opened the central exit doors and around half a dozen got off, then he motioned to us to use the central doors to board. Managed to squeeze on, got to Sutton, a few got off and he let people on at the front. At this point I was able to move to the back of the bottom deck. Cheam Broadway around 15-20 people waiting, some with large suitcases, who were turned away. Currently in between Worcester Park and New Malden, still rammed solid and haven’t been able to get anywhere near the front in order to tap in. Checked TFL status updates and see there’s disruption on the Piccadilly line but, even given that, it still seems exceptionally busy.

Edit: the bus has now turned left at the Fountain Roundabout along its normal line of route so I assume the long term diversion via the 213 route is over?

There are 17 buses tracking against a supposed PVR of 15, with some bunching - 10 buses were going one way, 7 the other (as at 9.30 Saturday). Maybe a mixture of school holidays / Bank Holiday and hot weather?

The buses are tracking along Kingston Road rather than the 213 route.

 

[Mark L]

Waiting for an SL7 at Carshalton High Street this morning, arrived full and standing with people jammed right up to the drivers cab. Driver kept front doors closed, opened the central exit doors and around half a dozen got off, then he motioned to us to use the central doors to board. Managed to squeeze on, got to Sutton, a few got off and he let people on at the front. At this point I was able to move to the back of the bottom deck. Cheam Broadway around 15-20 people waiting, some with large suitcases, who were turned away. Currently in between Worcester Park and New Malden, still rammed solid and haven’t been able to get anywhere near the front in order to tap in. Checked TFL status updates and see there’s disruption on the Piccadilly line but, even given that, it still seems exceptionally busy.

Edit: the bus has now turned left at the Fountain Roundabout along its normal line of route so I assume the long term diversion via the 213 route is over?

Your experience rather gives the lie to those who claim that buses on the SL7 don’t need luggage racks! I suspect airport flows are heavier today as it’s the start of half term for most. I’ve always found (for obvious reasons) that demand for luggage space falls the further one gets from Heathrow. Beyond New Malden it really falls off a cliff but there are clearly a few who can’t resist the lure of a £1.75 airport journey. I’m not sure that today’s disruption on the Piccadilly Line would have had much impact on the route.

The diversion via the 213 ended a few weeks ago but I can’t recall exactly when.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 May 2026 ==

Ive used my non TFL issued ENCS cardand noticed they rarely push a button in the machines, so how many passes are not recorded?

In short I suspect that many journeys aren’t registered. In a similar vein, it seems that the word on the street is that big brother is watching you if you tap in on a bus hence the propensity of the “yoof” (who have free travel anyway) not to do so. Again, this will lead to an under recording of pax numbers.

 

[MotCO]

There are 17 buses tracking against a supposed PVR of 15, with some bunching - 10 buses were going one way, 7 the other (as at 9.30 Saturday). Maybe a mixture of school holidays / Bank Holiday and hot weather?

The buses are tracking along Kingston Road rather than the 213 route.

There is severe bunching on this route at present, with 4 eastbound buses near Teddington, and no more until Sutton!

Edit: one appears to have popped up at Worcester Park - maybe turned short at New Malden? That now makes 18 buses on the route, so well done to Metrobus to putting out additional buses over the PVR.

(Picture shows an extract from 'Live London Bus Map', showing the distribution of buses along the SL7 route. https://traintimes.org.uk/map/london-buses/#SL7)

 

[London Trains]

Waiting for an SL7 at Carshalton High Street this morning, arrived full and standing with people jammed right up to the drivers cab. Driver kept front doors closed, opened the central exit doors and around half a dozen got off, then he motioned to us to use the central doors to board. Managed to squeeze on, got to Sutton, a few got off and he let people on at the front. At this point I was able to move to the back of the bottom deck. Cheam Broadway around 15-20 people waiting, some with large suitcases, who were turned away. Currently in between Worcester Park and New Malden, still rammed solid and haven’t been able to get anywhere near the front in order to tap in. Checked TFL status updates and see there’s disruption on the Piccadilly line but, even given that, it still seems exceptionally busy.

Edit: the bus has now turned left at the Fountain Roundabout along its normal line of route so I assume the long term diversion via the 213 route is over?

Sadly the issue of buses being rammed full and crowds being left behind at stops is completely normal and happens every day - the SL7 is chronically overcrowded between Croydon and Kingston, and is in dire need of a frequency increase.

 

[MotCO]

London Vehicle Finder now shows 21 buses on the route, including 2 non-Superloop B5LH Volvos

(Picture shows an extract from LVF https://lvf.io/#LDN|sl7 listing 21 buses currently serving route SL7)

 

[PGAT]

Edit: one appears to have popped up at Worcester Park - maybe turned short at New Malden? That now makes 18 buses on the route, so well done to Metrobus to putting out additional buses over the PVR.

The PVR is 21 and there are 21 buses currently out

 

[MotCO]

The PVR is 21 and there are 21 buses currently out

True - I confused the PVR with the frequency

 

[319364]

Your experience rather gives the lie to those who claim that buses on the SL7 don’t need luggage racks! I suspect airport flows are heavier today as it’s the start of half term for most. I’ve always found (for obvious reasons) that demand for luggage space falls the further one gets from Heathrow. Beyond New Malden it really falls off a cliff but there are clearly a few who can’t resist the lure of a £1.75 airport journey. I’m not sure that today’s disruption on the Piccadilly Line would have had much impact on the route.

The diversion via the 213 ended a few weeks ago but I can’t recall exactly when.

The diversion officially ends in January, but some drivers choose to ignore it as the diversion was put in place to avoid roadworks rather than for a road closure

 

[TRXsouth]

With mention of the SL7, does anyone know if a specific introduction date has been set for the new electric BYD BD11 buses?

 

[PGAT]

With mention of the SL7, does anyone know if a specific introduction date has been set for the new electric BYD BD11 buses?

No specific date but expect it in the coming weeks in Summer

 

[Deerfold]

In short I suspect that many journeys aren’t registered. In a similar vein, it seems that the word on the street is that big brother is watching you if you tap in on a bus hence the propensity of the “yoof” (who have free travel anyway) not to do so. Again, this will lead to an under recording of pax numbers.

Although it may be important for knowing how busy journeys are, London Councils pay a fixed amount to TfL for ENTCS.

 

[londonbridge]

The diversion officially ends in January, but some drivers choose to ignore it as the diversion was put in place to avoid roadworks rather than for a road closure

That’s what I read but there’s still temporary traffic lights and single alternate line traffic in place.

 

[johncrossley]

Sadly the issue of buses being rammed full and crowds being left behind at stops is completely normal and happens every day - the SL7 is chronically overcrowded between Croydon and Kingston, and is in dire need of a frequency increase.

Is there a lot of generated traffic due to the improved frequency, or is it mostly extracted from the parallel stopping buses?

 

[PGAT]

Is there a lot of generated traffic due to the improved frequency, or is it mostly extracted from the parallel stopping buses?

Mostly the former. The 213, 285 and 407 are just as busy as they were

 

[StemzeySignals]

The diversion officially ends in January, but some drivers choose to ignore it as the diversion was put in place to avoid roadworks rather than for a road closure

Not a case of ignoring the diversion

Discretion is down to the service controller whether to send buses down Kingston Road or the 213 route.

There are currently 4-way temp lights on Kingston Road j/w California Road so buses were diverted via the 213 route yesterday.

Couple of days ago there were temp lights outside Kingston Hospital, so buses reverted back to the line of route due to the delays.

All depends on what roadworks are happening - drivers have been instructed by LBSL to serve additional stop K on Malden Road before the Fountain Roundabout.

 

[telstarbox]

I was idly browsing Rightmove for Abbey Wood and some of the listings mention the nearby Superloop as well as the station as a selling point.

 

[londonbridge]

Not a case of ignoring the diversion

Discretion is down to the service controller whether to send buses down Kingston Road or the 213 route.

There are currently 4-way temp lights on Kingston Road j/w California Road so buses were diverted via the 213 route yesterday.



All depends on what roadworks are happening - drivers have been instructed by LBSL to serve additional stop K on Malden Road before the Fountain Roundabout.

As I posted, the bus I took yesterday followed the usual route. Also it stopped at stop K, turned left and then stopped again at the regular stop.

 

[StemzeySignals]

As I posted, the bus I took yesterday followed the usual route. Also it stopped at stop K, turned left and then stopped again at the regular stop.

As explained:

Discretion is down to the service controller whether to send buses down Kingston Road or the 213 route.

 

[londonbridge]

In the first breath you said that the diversion is at the service controllers discretion, I get that, then in the second breath you said that they were diverted yesterday, which wasn’t the case for all of them.

I’ll leave it there.

 

[Railguy1]

I asked this before and got no response, but does anyone know why Pinner bus stop has not been showing any bus information for many months now (and probably approaching a year)?

on the website to report issues, TFL claim it is fixed but it isn’t.

 

[aron2smith]

Ive used my non TFL issued ENCS cardand noticed they rarely push a button in the machines, so how many passes are not recorded?

In my own experience with a disabled bus pass, it's fairly rare. Maybe 20% or so of drivers if we're lucky pressed that button for me. What annoys me is the tiny minority of drivers who for some reason insist on me tapping the Oyster reader when we both know it doesn't work! Believe me I would much rather just tap the reader, about time TFL sorted it out.

Also can see why the cards are only issued for 5 years now, mine's 4 years old and fading now so sometimes plays up when tapped on buses in Herts or Essex, the driver always waves me on. Had the same happen in the West Midlands.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2026 ==

I was idly browsing Rightmove for Abbey Wood and some of the listings mention the nearby Superloop as well as the station as a selling point.

Good about time they mention buses! For the most part, Superloop is a clear improvement too and a 2nd loop for Inner South London as well as the fringes of North London would be a better solution than what the Mayor and TFL has proposed to date.

As for housing ads, nothing annoys me more when seeing a property mentioned in towns like Cheshunt, Harlow, Bishops Stortford etc and saying how well connected you will be to London, when the house is actually miles from the rail station, ignoring the buses outright and how often that public transport out here is much less integrated than anywhere TFL runs things! The stations have good rail services but can't cope with more people driving to them.

Also noticeable in that conflict is how people tried to stop car parks in stations like Cockfosters and High Barnet being developed. The High Barnet development now going ahead after the Mayor recalled the decision of Barnet Council. The solution to that is to improve cross-boundary bus routes.

 

[Thirteen]

Saw the new BD12 bus which is being used on the 268 and it looks... interesting to say the least.

 

[Mikey C]

Saw the new BD12 bus which is being used on the 268 and it looks... interesting to say the least.

I've got used to the styling now. Expect to see plenty more of them in service.

 

[RUK]

Saw the new BD12 bus which is being used on the 268 and it looks... interesting to say the least.

It reminds me of the Northern Counties Paladin, just as the BD11 reminds me of the Northern Counties Palatine II.

 

[Edvid]

The second phase of the Bus Safety Standard was unveiled last week.

TfL unveils next-generation Bus Safety Standard to make London buses safer than ever

TfL unveils next-generation Bus Safety Standard to make London buses safer than ever

tfl.gov.uk

The future of London's buses has been revealed, as Transport for London (TfL) publishes the next phase of its world-leading Bus Safety Standard. This sets out the next steps of safety requirements for buses entering service up to 2033 to ensure London continues to have one of the safest bus networks in the world.

Building on the progress to date, the second phase has been developed through extensive research, trials and close collaboration with manufacturers, operators, unions and safety specialists. It focuses on the collision types and injury risks that cause the greatest harm, while providing long-term certainty to support industry investment and innovation.

Included within the BSB2 document itself (12.4MB pdf) are some references to iBus2.

London’s buses use the iBus automatic vehicle location system, which includes a low bridge warning to alert drivers to a potential collision when approaching an overhead structure. This technology fuses GPS and vehicle motion sensor data to estimate how close the bus is to low bridges, with two default warnings when it is 90metres and then 50metres away.

The current system is due to be replaced with iBus2 from 2028, which will improve low bridge warnings by integrating a three stage information and warning strategy. Information on limited height structures in the vicinity will be made available via the Driver Display Unit screen, with both warnings and a collision alert issued if the direction of travel intersects with a limited height structure and gets closer than the configured warning distance or distances. It is anticipated that this will improve the accuracy and reliability of the low bridge warnings.

[...]

One important development that is separate to the Bus Safety Standard 2 but will unlock significant benefits for drivers is iBus2.

Once fully implemented, the driver’s screen and interface will be moved to within the driver’s natural field of view, rather than above their head as it is currently. Alongside this, iBus2 aims to reduce audio and visual distractions.

This includes replacing non-urgent audio messages with text-based messages that can only be viewed when the vehicle is stationary at a stop. It will also ensure that alerts only have audio elements when they are related to safety, such as low bridge warnings. Only the radio call buttons will be able to be interacted with when the bus is moving and the screen itself will be blank when the vehicle is in motion.

iBus2 is being rolled out in two phases. In the first phase, the driver’s screen and interface will remain in the current location. The second phase after 2030 will include decommissioning the ticket machine to enable the screen to be relocated.

 

[Mattplans]

TfL could cut buses to Bluewater shopping centre and Darent Valley hospital​

TfL are looking at stopping bus routes running beyond Dartford according to a recently uploaded document from Dartford Council.
Transport for London currently operate route 96 from Woolwich to Bluewater via Darent Valley. Bus route 428 runs from Erith while the 492 operates between Sidcup and Bluewater though doesn’t call at Darent Valley hospital.
According to minutes taken from a recent Dartford Council transport meeting Shane Hymers, Kent County Council’s Fastrack Development Manager stated there were “discussions with TfL on their plans to terminate buses at Dartford and not continue to DVH and Bluewater”.
The report notes that “The Principal Transport Planner advised that Dartford Borough Council had indicated that it opposed the curtailing of TfL bus services to DVH and Bluewater and that TfL should also be engaging with the Council on this matter too.
“He felt that more information from TfL was needed so that the Council take this matter up further and be involved in future discussions.”
While no decision has yet been made it was stated that Fastrack and local bus company Go Coaches could help plug the void: “Shane Hymers added that Fastrack felt it would be able to fill this void if the TfL buses to DVH and Bluewater were withdrawn.”

Bus troubles​

Transport for London have previously attempted to stop buses on routes 428 and 492 running beyond Dartford but scrapped the idea back in 2020.
Back then TfL stated: “Having considered all of the issues raised by respondents to the consultation, we have decided not to proceed with the withdrawal of the 428 between Bluewater and Crayford and not to proceed with the withdrawal of the 492 between Bluewater and Dartford at this time.
“We will keep both operations under review.”
Since then the London bus network has continued to struggle and last month’s TfL finance report showed bus passenger numbers continue to fall hitting the organisation’s finances.

Source https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.u...r-shopping-centre-and-darent-valley-hospital/

 

[MotCO]

Is this a move by TfL to get funding from Kent CC or Dartford Council to support the route?

Is it commercially viable for Go-Bus or Kent County buses to run a service from Bluewater to Dartford or beyond? If so, why would TfL seek additional funding support, since the existing routes may cover their costs? Do any TfL services cover their costs?