Southern English attitude to air con - curious to me

[Egg Centric]

I'm currently in a hotel in London and having a pleasant time since there's air con. When getting around the main change to my routine has been to use electric scooters where possible, rather than bikes, because I don't want to be dribbling with sweat. I'm ok. But I don't have to live here, I just have to head to an air conditioned office and various pubs for a few days.

I do not understand the locals that do. Only a few percent have air con.

Yes, this is unseasonably hot. But these temperatures aren't that unusual in Summer down here. And more to the point, they're only going to get worse with climate change.

For me, it's completely unreasonable to live like this without air con.

Why not get it? A portable unit that would cover a room is only a few hundred quid new. Can pick up a second hand for less than two hundred and weirdly I've once been given one for free just wandering along the street in Elstree.

Alternatively, you can do a whole house professionally with whisper quiet ones for less than the cost of a new kitchen.

But still people refrain.

For those who genuinely cannot afford it - well I understand that of course.

But that's not most of London, one of the richest cities in the world.

My best theory, and not to be all "hatey" about landlords particularly since they're getting a raw deal atm with the nonsense that is the RRA is that it's partly the landlords' fault. Many factors have meant that the vast majority of Londoners are renting and always in a somewhat temporary home. Clearly the tenant isn't going to install proper air con. The landlord isn't going to get any return on investment if they install proper air con because few tenants seem to care (but this is a bit circular - why don't they care?). And while the tenant could buy portable air con units (we did when we lived in Watford as tenants) they don't bother because the units are a bit unwieldy and if you're a tenant then it's highly likely you're trying to save as much as possible to save to give you some financial security (whether for a deposit or for a pension).

But it doesn't really matter whose fault it is in a way. It's the defeatism about it. Putting up with disturbed nights of sleep and difficulty in the day and so on with an easy solution is crazy to me.

Southerners - explain yourself! Is it that you don't actually mind this? Not my experience from speaking to people. So I can only conclude some sort of weird amnesia about what these temperatures are like.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, this is unseasonably hot. But these temperatures aren't that unusual in Summer down here. And more to the point, they're only going to get worse with climate change.

These temperatures are unexpected for this time of year

Southerners - explain yourself! Is it that you don't actually mind this? Not my experience from speaking to people. So I can only conclude some sort of weird amnesia about what these temperatures are like.

My house being an early Victorian terrace is pleasantly cool in the heat. No need for aircon. If very warm a fan is enough.

PLUS we are English. We don't lower ourselves to this continental/Yankee obsession with air-conditioning. We didn't make an empire spanning half the globe by giving into things like heat! We simply take our sleeveless cricket sweater out of the cupboard and wear that for a few days!

 

[Sun Chariot]

@Egg Centric
I worked in central London for 18 years and lived in it (Fulham, Royal Docks) for 12 of those 18 years.
I've been outside in 52 degrees C dry heat (central Texas) and in near 100% humidity (post-monsoon southern India).
I can recall the UK drought of 1976 (late June to latter-August); temperatures low to miid 30s but no rain in some areas for one and a half months.

My view is: you either invest in (expensive) infrastructure to combat the low number of occasions - or you cost-avoid and you accept the inconvenience, discomfort and disruption accompanying the event in those low number of occasions.
I see the UK's general approach is the latter.

The UK is surrounded by water and densely populated. More chance of humidity (it's more impactful than heat per se, in my view) and more people on our little rock to feel it.
Urban pollution seemed to trap in the humidity, too.
However, per year, the number of days with high humidity and 30+ C heat, is low. We experience few occasions of extreme cold and/or extreme snowfall, too.

Low-ceilinged properties always feel more oppressive in the hotter and more humid days (urban areas & hectares of new-build properties - I am looking at you).
I used a portable aircon unit (size of a small fridge-freezer) in my Docklands apartment - I found the air-con unit's constant rumbling a worse sleep-depriver, than the humidity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It gets this hot on single figure numbers of days per year, thus it's just not worth the outlay, even of £150. If climate change means that changes, aircon will undoubtedly increase in popularity accordingly.

It sits alongside the way the UK can't really handle snow - for the few days a year when it occurs, it's not worth the outlay, even of a small sum for e.g. winter tyres.

 

[AlterEgo]

We have a portable air con unit for our daughter's room. We will likely invest in proper AC in the next few years. Never understood the aversion to it, beyond the obvious barrier of cost of course.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We have a portable air con unit for our daughter's room. We will likely invest in proper AC in the next few years. Never understood the aversion to it, beyond the obvious barrier of cost of course.

I don't like it day to day because it dries me out and is noisy. I am not a fan of hotels with no opening windows accordingly. I'd use it on a day like this, but simply don't see it as worth the financial outlay (even of say £150) for the few days a year when I would use it.

If I had an air to air heat pump that had that function I'd have used it this week, but probably not on a general basis. In the UK it is mostly cool enough to simply open windows.

 

[8ace]

Not just the cost but also the space the unit takes up. I had the opportunity of buying a used one for £40 from my work but changed my mind in the end. I didn't want it taking up space doing nothing for 350 days a year and also I'd have to find a solution to vent it out the window. This probably would have involved a bit of ply to block off the opening with a hole cut in to vent the thing. This would have also need storing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not just the cost but also the space the unit takes up. I had the opportunity of buying a used one for £40 from my work but changed my mind in the end. I didn't want it taking up space doing nothing for 350 days a year and also I'd have to find a solution to vent it out the window. This probably would have involved a bit of ply to block off the opening with a hole cut in to vent the thing. This would have also need storing.

Though anyone who has a dehumidifier could swap it for a portable AC unit. They are basically the same thing, with the exception that the aircon unit vents the damp air out of the hose using the excess heat whereas the dehumidifier uses the cooling effect to condense it into the tank. Proper AC, rather than evaporative comfort cooling, also dehumidifies as a result.

I don't have either however, opening windows a lot removes the need.

 

[Meole]

Reasonably cool on the Elizabeth train

 

[nlogax]

Were I still living in my London flat I'd have invested in a portable unit. Forget Maslow, sleeping in a cool room is way up my personal hierarchy of needs.

 

[gg1]

Not just the cost but also the space the unit takes up. I had the opportunity of buying a used one for £40 from my work but changed my mind in the end. I didn't want it taking up space doing nothing for 350 days a year and also I'd have to find a solution to vent it out the window. This probably would have involved a bit of ply to block off the opening with a hole cut in to vent the thing. This would have also need storing.

That's what put us off the idea of a portable unit, where to store the thing for the 95% of the year we're not using it, they're too bulky and heavy to lug into the loft.

The only time we find the indoor temperature of a hot British summer excessive is when we're trying to sleep, by which point the room temperature is generally a good 5+ degrees warmer than outside so a portable unit where you hang the outlet hose out of a window would be fine.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I'm not Southern (well, maybe Newcastle might consider Manchester Southern), but I bought a standalone air con unit for £300 and it's one of the best purchases I've ever made.

The power cost isn't insignificant (~£40 per month) but it's a cost worth paying to keep my room tolerable during heatwaves like this and comfortable at the rest of the year (my bedroom faces the sun all day, so collects a lot of heat).

If we owned this house and didn't rent I would've had a proper built in system installed.

I couldn't imagine being in an even warmer environment and not having air con.

My some of family who live in the south do have standalone air con units, and have for many years.

 

[Purple Train]

These temperatures are unexpected for this time of year

My hous ebeing an early victiran terrace is pleasently cool i nthe heat. No need for aircon. If very warm a fan is enougth.

PLUS we are English. We don't lower ourselves to this continental/Yankee obsession with air-conditioning. We didn't make an empire spanning half the globe by giving into things like heat! We simply take our sleeveless cricket sweater out of the cupboard and wear that for a few days!

This made me laugh but is probably closer to the truth than I'd care to admit - I think there's a certain sense of muddling on through, and a sense that we'd rather complain, and feel satisfied in complaining, than actually eliminate the problem.

Additionally in my case I am an exiled Northerner for whom the thought of spending more than about £7.50 in one go is totally intolerable! I'd far rather just wear a thinner jumper than seek the respite of the Machine.

 

[The exile]

The number of days in an average year where in your average property it gets uncomfortably hot and you’ve got to be in is probably still less than ten. The number of days (I suspect actually nights) when it is truly unbearable is probably still less than 1. Thicker-walled older properties can easily cope with this, especially if you do the counter intuitive thing (curtains shut and windows closed in the day - windows open at night).
I’d like to think also it was a collective realisation that running a/c units is only going to exacerbate the problem in the long term, but I doubt the reasons are as self-sacrificially green as that.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I don't have, nor do I ever intend to have, air conditioning - and when I was working I actually preferred it when the office air conditioning failed...!!

Having said that, I admit I do seem to have a higher tolerance for heat than most, which I have often wondered if it's down to some Spanish blood I picked up 5 or 6 generations ago, but then again my brother is the exact opposite and is one of those who wears short sleeves in the winter. Maybe I got all the Spanish set of genes and he didn't get any of them!! Personally as long as it's dry heat I seem to be OK up to about the mid 30s. If it's very humid, probably the high 20s.

On Monday I was watching a film on my computer in the study, which is in the attic. The picture below shows the thermometer towards the end of the film ( bonus points for anyone who can identify the film from the single subtitle visible ). 31.7°C - and I have seen it higher up here, and yes - I do spend several hours a day in these temperatures.

 

[styles]

I do not understand the locals that do. Only a few percent have air con.

Yeah, mainly because full AC costs thousands of pounds to provide relief for maybe 1-2 weeks a year here.

Yes, this is unseasonably hot. But these temperatures aren't that unusual in Summer down here.

It's not summer.

And more to the point, they're only going to get worse with climate change.

For me, it's completely unreasonable to live like this without air con.

Fair enough. Buy aircon for your house then. It's widely available in the UK. Let us know when you've done it and how much it cost.

Why not get it? A portable unit that would cover a room is only a few hundred quid new. Can pick up a second hand for less than two hundred and weirdly I've once been given one for free just wandering along the street in Elstree.

A lot of these are actually not great.

Alternatively, you can do a whole house professionally with whisper quiet ones for less than the cost of a new kitchen.

Super! Let us know when you've fitted it in your house and how much it cost

But still people refrain.

For those who genuinely cannot afford it - well I understand that of course.

But that's not most of London, one of the richest cities in the world.

I don't get it. You're in a hotel in London with air con complaining that people in London don't have air con? You know that loads of Londoners have aircon, right?

My best theory, and not to be all "hatey" about landlords particularly since they're getting a raw deal atm with the nonsense that is the RRA is that it's partly the landlords' fault. Many factors have meant that the vast majority of Londoners are renting and always in a somewhat temporary home. Clearly the tenant isn't going to install proper air con. The landlord isn't going to get any return on investment if they install proper air con because few tenants seem to care (but this is a bit circular - why don't they care?). And while the tenant could buy portable air con units (we did when we lived in Watford as tenants) they don't bother because the units are a bit unwieldy and if you're a tenant then it's highly likely you're trying to save as much as possible to save to give you some financial security (whether for a deposit or for a pension).

The RRA was only announced a couple of years ago. I really don't see the relevance. Record-breaking summers have been going on for years.

Why don't landlords provide expensive AC? Because they don't actually care about their tenants, but their bottom line. You've used London as an example but honestly London landlords know they'll manage to let their property at almost any cost. On the whole, they couldn't give a toss about tenants. Ironically I think the RRA will make this worse due to rent increases and lack of availability.

But it doesn't really matter whose fault it is in a way. It's the defeatism about it. Putting up with disturbed nights of sleep and difficulty in the day and so on with an easy solution is crazy to me.

Southerners - explain yourself! Is it that you don't actually mind this? Not my experience from speaking to people. So I can only conclude some sort of weird amnesia about what these temperatures are like.

GhG emissions from motor vehicles and energy is worse in London than elsewhere, so probably yeah.

 

[edwin_m]

Vaguely wondering about getting a heat pump aircon system that would heat as well as cooling. But I guess it would be a lot of money.

 

[Acey]

Breaks my heart paying an exorbitant amount of money to heat my house let alone paying to cool it !

 

[35B]

Vaguely wondering about getting a heat pump aircon system that would heat as well as cooling. But I guess it would be a lot of money.

I think heat pumps will move the dial for affordable air con. But having lived somewhere with warm air heating, the ducting and dry dusty air would be a major no-no for me

 

[edwin_m]

I think heat pumps will move the dial for affordable air con. But having lived somewhere with warm air heating, the ducting and dry dusty air would be a major no-no for me

And incredibly difficult to retrofit. With the caveat that I haven't done any research, I guess we'd be looking for one of the split systems that pumps refrigerant between an outdoor heating/cooling unit and an indoor cooling/heating one in each room.

Most heat pumps in the UK operate with a moreorless conventional water circulation through a set of radiators. Although in theory these could provide some cooling, it wouldn't be practical because of the condensation forming on each radiator.

 

[Foxhunter]

My view is: you either invest in (expensive) infrastructure to combat the low number of occasions - or you cost-avoid and you accept the inconvenience, discomfort and disruption accompanying the event in those low number of occasions.

Is the answer.

My understanding (from a few years ago) is that the same calculation happens the opposite way around in Hong Kong. Everybody has AC, but plenty forgo a bit of heating when it is needed on a few days per year.

But it is coming in the UK. My personal annecdata points are a relation in London with AC installed this year, and a friend on the East Midlands plains that has had AC for 5 years now because

Forget Maslow, sleeping in a cool room is way up my personal hierarchy of needs.

 

[BeeBus]

Over twenty years ago we added quite a large conservatory to our house. Conventional heating would have been crippingly expensive to run (and too much for our boiler) so we got a heat pump unit which provided the heating at a much more sensible cost. It also had the benefit of providing air conditioning but in practice we rarely used that as a large south-facing conservatory takes a lot of cooling and was a battle not worth fighting as a rule. However, it could make for a more comfortable space in the evening and the ability just to stand in front of the aircon for a few minutes to cool down was also an invaluable feature.

These units are beautifully reliable and that one ran twenty-one years with no maintenance necessary at all, until the compressor eventually failed. Our house is a modernish (1990s) property and upstairs can get very hot in warm weather (quite a bit of the summer). I spend quite a lot of time on my computer and in those conditions even a modern LCD screen can feel like a radiator and it can be too hot to get much done. So when we had to replace the conservatory unit we opted for a system with two room units, one for the conservatory and one for the computer room. The connection to the upstairs room, which is at the opposite end to the house, is by refrigerant pipes which go up the outside wall and then through the attic, so the only thing you see is a wall unit in the computer room.

This unit has certainly been useful in this recent spell as I simply would not have been able to get anything done without it. Both units are as good as silent and would not impact me if I tried to sleep in the same room (although I don't).

The economics of heating the conservatory also transfer across to this room, so that in winter when I am the only person in the house I can just heat the one room with an efficient heat pump. So the benefits aren't just limited to the odd really hot day. I appreciate that the problems and solution may be unique to the property and lifestyle but argue you should look at the wider picture. Opening windows doesn't help if the air is not moving!

We did investigate going over to a heat-pump system for the house, but have been advised that the microbore central heating pipework in this house is not suitable for the higher flow rates needed due to the lower water temperature output that you get from a heat pump. Installation would therefore be very disruptive and expensive. I don't know whether things have changed since this discussion a couple of years ago.

One thing worth mentioning about heat pump installations such as ours is that the low ambient temperature performance drops off as it has to spend most of its effort de-frosting the external coils, so we occasionally have to supplement it with a fan heater. I had been led to believe that more modern units were better in this regard than the 2003 one we had, but that hasn't proved to be the case.

 

[Trackman]

We have two bedrooms on the same floor, one was for one of the kids- a granddaughter sleeps in there now.

We found out about twenty years ago that that one the bedrooms during a heatwave was really cool at night and the other one boiling hot - it's just how the sun shined on them and the building makeup.
When the daughter was going to Uni we bought a new bed (A Queen) for her and thanked us - but there was an ulterior motive behind this, which we did tell her about.

 

[Ken X]

Our elderly house is buttoned up tight, including curtains on the sunny side, during the day when it's really hot. The windows and loft hatch are opened overnight. It strikes quite cool when coming home at the end of the day.

Probably not quite as good as AC but enough for us given how few days are very hot.

 

[Sorcerer]

Not southern, but I think that I'm pretty well acclimatised to heat since I can walk outside in 30c without much discomfort and I've been to the UAE in May with similar temperatures. But yesterday my indoor thermometer and dehumidifier showed a temperature of 35c and 65% humidity at max. For context, that's what you'd expect in the tropics. Temperatures like that should hopefully open more people up to the idea of air conditioning.

Considering this current heatwave is what we're getting in late spring, I am confident in saying that we're probably getting another 40c by August, though that won't stop some of the old fools on social media insisting that it's just a normal summer day and how they endured worse in 1976 (which hasn't been the case for years now). Either way, aircon should definitely be on the table for everyone moving forward, especially in London and the south.

 

[Snow1964]

Had a portable unit when we lived in Kingston upon Thames, but it was fairly noisy.

When we moved to Wiltshire 5 years ago, had it put in the house, prior to us finishing decorating through out. It was installed end of October, so got discount as it was quieter installation season. Using it now, can hardly hear it.

About month ago bought a portable unit for our daughter for her flat, about half the size of unit we had back in about 2007, and much quieter.

I am not sure it is as rare as Op @Egg Centric makes out, when walking can often see wall mounted units on side of houses, think people working from home, or those with vulnerable people who struggle in heat, will fit it to room or two. But agree whole house systems are rare

 

[35B]

And incredibly difficult to retrofit. With the caveat that I haven't done any research, I guess we'd be looking for one of the split systems that pumps refrigerant between an outdoor heating/cooling unit and an indoor cooling/heating one in each room.

Most heat pumps in the UK operate with a moreorless conventional water circulation through a set of radiators. Although in theory these could provide some cooling, it wouldn't be practical because of the condensation forming on each radiator.

Fair comment - though my observation on comfort applies to new build too

 

[JamesT]

Fair comment - though my observation on comfort applies to new build too

I'm led to believe that current planning regulations make it almost impossible to build aircon into new housing as the presumption is that passive cooling methods should be used and you have to show they would be insufficient.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm led to believe that current planning regulations make it almost impossible to build aircon into new housing as the presumption is that passive cooling methods should be used and you have to show they would be insufficient.

As the majority of people don't want aircon this is fine. Anyone buying a house who wants it can have it installed. Providing it by default just increases the cost of new housing unnecessarily unless they are using it to circumvent the above which would absolutely be the wrong approach.

 

[JamesT]

As the majority of people don't want aircon this is fine. Anyone buying a house who wants it can have it installed. Providing it by default just increases the cost of new housing unnecessarily unless they are using it to circumvent the above which would absolutely be the wrong approach.

I'm not suggesting building it by default, but it's not very efficient to build a house then start poking holes in it to add aircon, when you could do it from the start if that's what the person wants.