Avanti 805's under the wires on WCML (Euston - LIverpool)

[thecrofter]

Wasn’t sure which forum to post this topic in as it could also be Infrastructure, Rolling Stock or Diagrams sections so if Mods want to move it feel free.

I’ve seen that from the May timetable change, Avanti will run at least one Euston - Liverpool service with an Evero (Class 805) on diesel power under the wires from Lichfield Trent Valley to Runcorn where it will switch back to Electric. RTT shows this to be effective on the 09:05 EUS-LIV.

Realtime Trains | 1F15 0905 London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street | 18/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 1F15 0905 departure from London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street on 18/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

One can only assume it’s a Power Supply demand issue in the Crewe area as Lichfield and Runcorn are the only two intermediate stops where changeover can occur. Does anyone have any detailed knowledge as to why the restriction is being introduced?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

One can only assume it’s a Power Supply demand issue

Yes I believe there's an power issue.

 

[Russel]

Yes I believe there's an power issue.

I've read about this on here a few times, is there any plans to do anything about it?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I've read about this on here a few times, is there any plans to do anything about it?

I think the current status is it would cost a lot of money so they don't want to do it.

 

[Russel]

I think the current status is it would cost a lot of money so they don't want to do it.

Not surprising really, it's only one of Europe's busiest rail lines....

 

[800001]

Wasn’t sure which forum to post this topic in as it could also be Infrastructure, Rolling Stock or Diagrams sections so if Mods want to move it feel free.

I’ve seen that from the May timetable change, Avanti will run at least one Euston - Liverpool service with an Evero (Class 805) on diesel power under the wires from Lichfield Trent Valley to Runcorn where it will switch back to Electric. RTT shows this to be effective on the 09:05 EUS-LIV.

Realtime Trains | 1F15 0905 London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street | 18/05/2026

Real-time train running information for 1F15 0905 departure from London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street on 18/05/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

One can only assume it’s a Power Supply demand issue in the Crewe area as Lichfield and Runcorn are the only two intermediate stops where changeover can occur. Does anyone have any detailed knowledge as to why the restriction is being introduced?

Isn't it the Weaver Junction area that is the issue?

 

[Sorcerer]

I knew there was going to be some extra services but I didn't think they'd be using an 805. Almost seems like a bit of a backwards step given that part of the Everos selling point was that they wouldn't be running diesel under the wires. I understand there is power supply constraints but it seems nobody is interested in delivering the required upgrades.

Isn't it the Weaver Junction area that is the issue?

I assume the timing of freight movements means that any electric trains would be sharing the overhead lines with an electric freight loco between Crewe and Weaver Junction neutral sections which would explain why the pantograph comes down at Lichfield and goes back up at Runcorn. Otherwise I would think the service would be a Pendolino like the xx:05/07 departures usually are.

 

[Djgr]

It does highlight the fragmentation of the railway, with no joined up strategic thinking and Heath Robinson solutions.

 

[800001]

I think the current status is it would cost a lot of money so they don't want to do it.

They will have to do something as eventually Lumo will have electric trains running on the Stirling Services.

As far as I'm aware the 222s are only a tempory (4-5 years I believe) stop gap.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2026 ==

Isn't it the Weaver Junction area that is the issue?

Yeah it'll probably be the sections Whinmore - Crewe, and Crewe - Weaver Junction that I'd guess are the issue.
The former section is fed from Crewe FS which is the original equipment from (checks notes) 1959. Decent portion of the main route (WCML South, Trent Valley, Weaver - Euxton, Carnforth - Gt Strickland) has been modernised with 2x 25kV AT feeding. But the Crewe area fell off the agenda for some reason. I think there was supposed to be a new grid connection in the Crewe area to replace it and feed the surrounding lines with AT.

Crewe to Weaver Jnc is actually fed from one of the newer high power 400kV grid connections (Weaver Jnc ATFS), however the OLE itself has not been fitted with the requisite AT infrastructure to make that higher power usable.

View attachment 204383
(Thicker lines denote AT feeding)

I think the current status is it would cost a lot of money so they don't want to do it.

I think it's actually worse than that - Crewe to Weaver was being worked on at some point but the project was mothballed - I believe there are new substations along the route that were built but never completed/commissioned - and the work to fit AT wires to the catenary was halfway finished or maybe even not started at all. Similar story with north Wembley to Bourne End in the south, the upgrade was started but left unfinished. All these projects stem from WCRM which was basically never finished.

 

[ABB125]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 May 2026 ==


Yeah it'll probably be the sections Whinmore - Crewe, and Crewe - Weaver Junction that I'd guess are the issue.
The former section is fed from Crewe FS which is the original equipment from (checks notes) 1959. Decent portion of the main route (WCML South, Trent Valley, Weaver - Euxton, Carnforth - Gt Strickland) has been modernised with 2x 25kV AT feeding. But the Crewe area fell off the agenda for some reason. I think there was supposed to be a new grid connection in the Crewe area to replace it and feed the surrounding lines with AT.

Crewe to Weaver Jnc is actually fed from one of the newer high power 400kV grid connections (Weaver Jnc ATFS), however the OLE itself has not been fitted with the requisite AT infrastructure to make that higher power usable.

View attachment 204383
(Thicker lines denote AT feeding)

I think it's actually worse than that - Crewe to Weaver was being worked on at some point but the project was mothballed - I believe there are new substations along the route that were built but never completed/commissioned - and the work to fit AT wires to the catenary was halfway finished or maybe even not started at all. Similar story with north Wembley to Bourne End in the south, the upgrade was started but left unfinished. All these projects stem from WCRM which was basically never finished.

I saw these disconnected transformers a few weeks ago just south of Stafford - presumably these are part of what you've described above?

 

[a_c_skinner]

This is the British disease. Not doing what is plainly best on the grounds we can "get away" with a lower cost solution. Not doing something until it can't be put off any longer. While we plan like this we will have solutions like this.

 

[Harpo]

This is the British disease. Not doing what is plainly best on the grounds we can "get away" with a lower cost solution. Not doing something until it can't be put off any longer. While we plan like this we will have solutions like this.

It’s the Treasury/DfT disease, no desire to pay for contingency or passive provision, just pay double afterwards for the fall out.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It does highlight the fragmentation of the railway, with no joined up strategic thinking and Heath Robinson solutions.

The power supply upgrade and ATF working was part of the megabuck WCRM project, but was descoped over the years and not reinstated.
The ATF project is also incomplete.
You can probably blame WCRM overruns in cost and time.

The 805 set appears to come from the 0835 Holyhead/Blackpool arrival at Euston, of which the set at the country end goes back to Holyhead at 0900 and the one at the buffers forms the 0905 to Liverpool, 805 008 doing the honours today..

 

[DarloRich]

I understand there is power supply constraints but it seems nobody is interested in delivering the required upgrades.

This is the British disease. Not doing what is plainly best on the grounds we can "get away" with a lower cost solution. Not doing something until it can't be put off any longer. While we plan like this we will have solutions like this.

It’s the Treasury/DfT disease, no desire to pay for contingency or passive provision, just pay double afterwards for the fall out.

Or, there is a challenging funding environment/cash constraints and after analysis of the proposed spending/work bank it was decided the money could be used better used elsewhere/other investment opportunities had a better business case/return on investment.

 

[The Planner]

I think the current status is it would cost a lot of money so they don't want to do it.

Not surprising really, it's only one of Europe's busiest rail lines....

Wrong, its in the plan to be resolved. Dealing with external power providers is a long and arduous job.

 

[Harpo]

Or, there is a challenging funding environment/cash constraints and after analysis of the proposed spending/work bank it was decided the money could be used better used elsewhere/other investment opportunities had a better business case/return on investment.

Fully accept that alternative but capping ‘growth’ is a huge can kick.

 

[DarloRich]

Fully accept that alternative but capping ‘growth’ is a huge can kick.

agreed - but sometimes you have to kick the can in the hope your money situation improves! That is the real world.

 

[zwk500]

View attachment 204383
(Thicker lines denote AT feeding)

This link isn't working for me.

 

[RailWonderer]

Wrong, its in the plan to be resolved. Dealing with external power providers is a long and arduous job.

At least it's being done, even if it's not a priority. One service per day running as diesel on one section of line is hardly a big deal.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

I saw these disconnected transformers a few weeks ago just south of Stafford - presumably these are part of what you've described above?
View attachment 204384

Not quite, that's old equipment from the original RC/BT feeding system that has been disconnected. The area around Stafford has been upgraded. I'll post a map I was meant to post earlier:

This link isn't working for me.

apologies, hopefully this embeds properly

Or, there is a challenging funding environment/cash constraints and after analysis of the proposed spending/work bank it was decided the money could be used better used elsewhere/other investment opportunities had a better business case/return on investment.

I would add a couple points to this though. Firstly, it's literally the country's most important mainline. Perhaps most egregiously they didn't finish between Wembley and Bourne End meaning the London end is beyond maxed out on electrical capacity. This makes power supply issues much more likely down there as there is very little resilience. And considering how busy the area is, a problem with Acton Lane FS can cost Network Rail millions in delay payments to TOCs for even a few minutes of downtime. Secondly, it's not like the projects were considered and then dropped. They already spent the money buying new substations and securing new supergrid connections, but fell over on actually utilising them.

At least it's being done, even if it's not a priority. One service per day running as diesel on one section of line is hardly a big deal.

There is also Lumo to consider. I am aware of course that they were always highly unlikely to run with 125mph EMUs because there aren't any going spare like with the 222s. But it is also true that they would not be able to anyway due to numerous constraints. It also probably makes it impossible to get XC to use bimodes in the future as well, and limits electric freight use. But most significantly, there is very little resilience in the system with electrical capacity being so used up. For instance, in times of disruption you can get into situations where lots of trains suddenly powering up from unusual locations is too much of a strain and leads to a fault with a feeder station.

 

[Vexed]

Perhaps most egregiously they didn't finish between Wembley and Bourne End meaning the London end is beyond maxed out on electrical capacity. This makes power supply issues much more likely down there as there is very little resilience. And considering how busy the area is, a problem with Acton Lane FS can cost Network Rail millions in delay payments to TOCs for even a few minutes of downtime. Secondly, it's not like the projects were considered and then dropped. They already spent the money buying new substations and securing new supergrid connections, but fell over on actually utilising them.

The Bushey Power Supply Upgrade has once again again been uncancelled and is having more work done.

Bushey Power Supply Upgrade - Easter Works Success | Jeet Dhelaria posted on the topic | LinkedIn

Bushey Power Supply Upgrade – Easter Works Reflections As the dust settles and colleagues return in full swing after a well‑deserved rest—following an intense blockade and a relentless run‑up to Easter—it feels like the right moment to pause and reflect. As a project team, we came together for...

www.linkedin.com

Bushey Power Supply Upgrade – Easter Works Reflections
As the dust settles and colleagues return in full swing after a well‑deserved rest—following an intense blockade and a relentless run‑up to Easter—it feels like the right moment to pause and reflect.
As a project team, we came together for our first review session (T+1), led by our client, Thiago Ferrarini The atmosphere was overwhelmingly positive—open, honest, and filled with constructive reflection.

Let’s start with the impressive drone footage by Steve Richards ACIRO capturing Jord Raketic in the basket. It prompts a powerful question in mind why don’t we talk about these moments with the same reverence as sending a man to the moon? This is exactly what it takes, and yet we do it often in rail.

Everyone involved in the blockade is a hero, guided by strong leadership throughout. Teams received generous and timely recognition from across the industry and colleagues and partners stepped out of the usual railway shyness to openly share success stories. The unthinkable had to happen. Plans were tested, resilience pushed, and collaboration stretched to its limits—and we delivered safely and efficiently

A Significant Accomplishment.
12,000 safe site hours, with round‑the‑clock working and 10 machines in operation, 200 personnel, handing back railway sections ahead of time with a far better understanding of asset condition.
3 live worksites, involving multiple parties, spanning 12 miles of infrastructure on the busiest mixed‑use railway in Europe.
Works delivered across Harrow & Weald, Headstone Lane, Hatch End, Carpenders Park, Bushey, Watford, Apsley, and Kings Langley, representing unprecedented access for construction works.

Key Volumes Delivered
Removal of 19,000m of Return Conductor Wire
Removal of 170 stovepipes and RC insulator SPS locations
59 Small Parts Steel Units installed
8 Booster Transformers disconnected, overlaps reconfigured
HV cables across portal booms at 2 locations
7,000m of de‑veg by Coombes
1,200m of route works (concrete and GRP) and 500m of GRP refurb by Global Construction and us.

This truly represents a rebirth of the project, with several mothballed assets brought back into scope after previously being paused due to complexity. The speed at which all organisations reacted—in just 10 weeks which included securing construction‑stage funding, defining scope, integrating access and works, validating designs, contracts, procurement. Typically, this level of mobilisation takes 6 - 9 months.
Initial estimates suggest an efficiency of £1 of value for every £1 spent during this blockade.

What stood out most wasn’t just the technical delivery—it was the people. The teamwork, professionalism, and shared determination to do the right thing, safely and under pressure, were outstanding. A huge thank you to everyone who played a part in this.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

The Bushey Power Supply Upgrade has once again again been uncancelled and is having more work done.

Bushey Power Supply Upgrade - Easter Works Success | Jeet Dhelaria posted on the topic | LinkedIn

Bushey Power Supply Upgrade – Easter Works Reflections As the dust settles and colleagues return in full swing after a well‑deserved rest—following an intense blockade and a relentless run‑up to Easter—it feels like the right moment to pause and reflect. As a project team, we came together for...

www.linkedin.com

• Removal of 19,000m of Return Conductor Wire
• Removal of 170 stovepipes and RC insulator SPS locations
• 59 Small Parts Steel Units installed
• 8 Booster Transformers disconnected, overlaps reconfigured
• HV cables across portal booms at 2 locations
• 7,000m of de‑veg by Coombes
• 1,200m of route works (concrete and GRP) and 500m of GRP refurb by Global Construction and us.

This is excellent news. Is this just to North Wembley or has the project been rescoped to Euston? Swear I heard implication of the latter somewhere.

Bushey feeder went in many years ago (2002?) and it says they installed the neutral section there, and then removed it a few weeks later when the project was cancelled. I wonder what the thinking was behind this because surely that means if both supplies at Bushey go offline, the whole line is to be fed from Acton as far as Bourne End which is quite a distance. Surely it'd make more sense to have the ability to feed Leighton Buzzard to Bushey and Acton Lane to Bushey

 

[Vexed]

This is excellent news. Is this just to North Wembley or has the project been rescoped to Euston? Swear I heard implication of the latter somewhere.

I'm reasonably certain it's just North Wembley but it might have changed since I last heard.

 

[snookertam]

It’s the Treasury/DfT disease, no desire to pay for contingency or passive provision, just pay double afterwards for the fall out.

I agree to an extent, but when budgets are tightly controlled and are on an annual (or periodic) basis, then these behaviours are always likely. However the root cause is the culture of believing that the spending of any tax payer money has to be tightly controlled and viewed with absolute cynicism. Long term solutions are difficult to achieve under such circumstances.

 

[thecrofter]

Bushey feeder went in many years ago (2002?) and it says they installed the neutral section there, and then removed it a few weeks later when the project was cancelled. I wonder what the thinking was behind this because surely that means if both supplies at Bushey go offline, the whole line is to be fed from Acton as far as Bourne End which is quite a distance. Surely it'd make more sense to have the ability to feed Leighton Buzzard to Bushey and Acton Lane to Bushey

Point of order to the above and some background to add context. A Neutral Section (NS) was indeed designed for Bushey as part of the original West Coast Route Mods ATPSU project and got to the stage of OLE foundations being installed and masts being landed. However, the NS itself was never installed as its physical postion was challenged by the Freight Operating Companies due to concerns over excessive driver workload in the area. Resolution was not forthcoming hence it was deferred leaving Bushey ATFS as basically a T-Feed utilising only one of its two feeders when WCRM completed and disbanded in mid 2009.

The outstandining works was subsumed by Network Rail and became part what was known as WCPSU Phase 3A. Of the four Feeder Areas in that scope, Bushey feeder area was planned to be the last to allow time for the additional design & development work necessary to accomodate a 'Carrier Wire' type NS, plus a review of the Acton Lane feeding arrangement to enable Bushey to feed into Euston with the added bonus of removing the (then) troublesome North Wembley NS. As ever, politics, delays and an inevitable increase in estimated cost for the additional scope played a big part in the plug being pulled before the project completed AT south of Bourne End. That despite some expensive enabling works (e.g. Kings Langley ATS) already being completed. The other three feeder areas in scope of 3A i.e. Leighton Buzzard, Patford Bridge, and Brereton, were succesfully commissioned bringing the undoubted benefits of Auto-Transformer feeding to a large section of the West Coast Main Line.

 

[dk1]

Compared to how many 221s operated under the wires daily for well over 20 years, this really isn’t such a big deal in my opinion.

 

[thecrofter]

Compared to how many 221s operated under the wires daily for well over 20 years, this really isn’t such a big deal in my opinion.

The point being that the Power Supply is now struggling to keep up with the electrical demand. DfT cutting Avanti services in the summer will no doubt help!

 

[59CosG95]

Unrelated, but isn't the Preston area meant to be getting a power supply boost? (Think it might be time to split this into a separate thread!)

 

[Elecman]

Penwortham 400kV feeder