Most Disappointing Rolling Stock.

[Bishopstone]

I’m generally happy with modern rolling stock.

I’ll mention the 700s. The seats could do with more legroom, but the lack of seat back tables, charging points and WiFi on most of the fleet was unforgivable.

I recall that tables were omitted because of a notion that they would impair dwell time at stations in the Thameslink core. (Presumably First Class tables have no such impact….)

Charging points, it was said, were unnecessary because everyone carries power banks with them - and if they didn’t, then they should. Hmmm.

That said, a 12-car 700 is better than the wedged 4 or 8 car 319s that preceded them.

 

[tfw756rider]

I like the Pendolino but hate seating if that makes sense.

Is it just their new seats that you don't like (did you like their original seats?)

 

[19Gnasher69]

To me, Voyager hate is the same as pineapple on pizza hate, it's just a meme at this point, yes they should be a couple of carriages longer and XC haven't cleaned them since they took the Virgin logos off, but they aren't bad if you get a journey that isn't crush loaded.

I'd take a smooth, comfortable Voyager over an IET with their collapsed seats or any of the modern CAF rubbish that have the ride quality of Fred Flintstones car.

I’m inclined to agree with you. I’ve grown to (half) enjoy journeys on Voyagers if, as you say, they’re not rammed.
Their main weakness, from a passenger perspective (and other than being too short), is underfloor engines. But that can be levelled at almost all our diesel trains. I had a lovely ride in one a couple of years ago when I was in a coach with an engine out; alas it was only from Leeds to York. If only the Voyagers and 180s could be used as hauled stock……..

 

[Transilien]

I’m inclined to agree with you. I’ve grown to (half) enjoy journeys on Voyagers if, as you say, they’re not rammed.
Their main weakness, from a passenger perspective (and other than being too short), is underfloor engines. But that can be levelled at almost all our diesel trains. I had a lovely ride in one a couple of years ago when I was in a coach with an engine out; alas it was only from Leeds to York. If only the Voyagers and 180s could be used as hauled stock……..

The intial plan was to have some voyagers as push-pull carriages hauled by class 67s. I’m pretty sure that one of the options for the IET program was loco hauled too. It’s a shame that this was never became the reality. The rational side of me understands that multiple units are the future, but the enthusiast in me finds the multiple unit domination of the modern day depressingly boring. Sometimes I wonder if there will come a day when no train interests me and all rolling stock will look identical, with ugly and uncomfortable interiors.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseyrail 777s. I think I had quite high expectations as back when they were ordered the forum was full of positivity and praise for how good Stadler trains were. Sadly when they turned up, they turned out to be awful.

Totally agree. The 777 is probably my biggest disappointment on the railway in my lifetime. The 730/0 does the same thing but so, so much better - apart from the level boarding itself I can't think of a single thing the 777 does better than the 730/0.

 

[Crithylum]

I think the question that we need to ask is what is the newest train that hasn't made it onto this thread? I believe that it is the 701 (if 80x includes 810). Although, being 4 years late probably nuked everyone's expectations so all the disappointment was from before they actually entered service. I think the 385s and the Coradia family are the next newest yet to have a mention.

 

[Harpo]

I’m pretty sure that one of the options for the IET program was loco hauled too.

The DfT squashed all notion of attaching locos during journeys with the Stuart Baker nonsense (he was good at that - see all things IET technical) that it took 15 minutes. It’s believed he’d seen the 57/Pendolino coupling pantomime.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2026 ==

Sometimes I wonder if there will come a day when no train interests me and all rolling stock will look identical, with ugly and uncomfortable interiors.

It’s arrived. It’s IET.

 

[Zamracene749]

Plenty of choices here, but for me it's got to be 555. Thanks to the appalling seats, both in terms of discomfort and positioning. I've been more comfortable sitting on the toilet with food poisoning. Airport to Sunderland anyone?

 

[Tracked]

331's - When they replaced the 321's on DON-LDS I thought they were Ok, none of the slow wobbling out of Doncaster that the 321's used to provide. The only problem is that after the 333's started on this service I'm now disappointed when a 331 shows up, only 3-car so probably busier, and the ride quality is a step down from the 333, even with 2+2 seating ...

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

Class197. Took one Crewe - Cardiff. I've ridden in better brakevans.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Class197. Took one Crewe - Cardiff. I've ridden in better brakevans.

Good legroom, thick padded seats, bigger luggage racks, doors at thirds (this is good on the sort of services they run). Not sure what the hate for these is about. Is it just door position prejudice again?

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

Good legroom, thick padded seats, bigger luggage racks, doors at thirds (this is good on the sort of services they run). Not sure what the hate for these is about. Is it just door position prejudice again?

No. Not at all. I am a bit of a fan of the 185 and so that blows that theory out of the water. I will say though, it was a sub for a 67 set, which may have coloured my opinion. Also, it was my first and only ride with one. After a couple of hours, it was really getting on my wick. The 170 back to the midlands was a relief to my senses. It's not just new train predudice on my part either, I quite like some of the 800 variants.

 

[DS25]

Good legroom, thick padded seats, bigger luggage racks, doors at thirds (this is good on the sort of services they run). Not sure what the hate for these is about. Is it just door position prejudice again?

Imo I dislike the poor ride quality and the seats aren't the best so I'd prefer to travel on a 158 or mk4 but other than that they are alright trains

 

[43096]

Is it just door position prejudice again?

No, it is that they are a cheap and nasty design - CAF.

 

[Strathclyder]

I think the question that we need to ask is what is the newest train that hasn't made it onto this thread? I believe that it is the 701 (if 80x includes 810). Although, being 4 years late probably nuked everyone's expectations so all the disappointment was from before they actually entered service. I think the 385s and the Coradia family are the next newest yet to have a mention.

When it comes to the Coradias (Junipers included), it was the shoddy build quality from the factory that was the main issue - the 180s are the exception here, given their underlying issues go beyond just poor build quality - and which has tainted their reputation. Once brought up to the standards they should've been at from new and if given the chance to bed in, they're perfectly good units. I mean, when was the last time the 334s or 458s had major technical issues?

 

[KevinTurvey]

Virtually every item of rolling stock built from about 1965 to about 2015 has one thing in common - good ride quality*, some better, some worse, they may have had terrible cramped interiors and seating, class 150s being a good example. While newer trains may have nicer interiors, more legroom, and better acceleration, many just don't ride nicely - I'm referring mainly to CAF products of which the 397 has a pleasant interior but when running 100 mph plus its like riding on a go cart and quite tiring on a 200 mile run.

I mean surely ride quality should have improved over 50 years of innovation and development.

*(Pacers excluded)

 

[JD2168]

Northern 195 - looks ok, seats are thinly padded, the tables aren’t lined up with the windows well & the ride quality is pretty poor, much worse than a 158 for example

 

[Sam 76]

Northern 769s

Great idea but awful implementation. Slow, cold and unreliable. Often get swapped out for a 150 which is an additional punishment

Also controversially as a regular user of the 777s I’ve really grown quite fond of them. But agree they could have done more especially with the PIS

 

[19Gnasher69]

Sometimes I wonder if there will come a day when no train interests me and all rolling stock will look identical, with ugly and uncomfortable interiors.

Off topic but with a nod to your forum ID, I think that the SNCF may well have beaten the UK to at least two of these “achievements”.

 

[supervc-10]

Northern 195 - looks ok, seats are thinly padded, the tables aren’t lined up with the windows well & the ride quality is pretty poor, much worse than a 158 for example

To be fair, not much can match a 158/159 for ride quality. I'm very fond of them.

 

[DS25]

To be fair, not much can match a 158/159 for ride quality. I'm very fond of them.

Yes I agree tbh, I always enjoy a ride on a 158

 

[FrontSideBus]

To be fair, not much can match a 158/159 for ride quality. I'm very fond of them.

I even like the whine of the hydraulic pump!

 

[Djgr]

Also controversially as a regular user of the 777s I’ve really grown quite fond of them. But agree they could have done more especially with the PIS

So have I. Great acceleration. Great colour. Excellent visibility of the onboard staff

 

[signed]

Good legroom, thick padded seats, bigger luggage racks, doors at thirds (this is good on the sort of services they run). Not sure what the hate for these is about. Is it just door position prejudice again?

There's no padding on 197

I mean there is but it's as hard as metal seat under it would be, durable sure, but comfortable not.

 

[Sam 76]

So have I. Great acceleration. Great colour. Excellent visibility of the onboard staff

My only issue was always the ability for them to just sit down and stop anywhere. But now as that’s significantly better I don’t see them as anywhere near the most disappointing out there

 

[Railperf]

I've not been impressed with CAF products especially the appalling ride quality on the 397's.

 

[GEC465]

345s, 710s and 720s. Living local to the lines the trains operated on, I'd rather the 315s and the 321s that preceded it on the Great Eastern.

I used to commute on majority of those and can safely say the newer trains are way better especially the powerful air conditioning
345s at least are very good on short journeys though I rarely hear of people taking them full length.

For me disappointing rolling stock has to be half the 700s especially ones without WiFi/seatback tables and vandalised toilets(at least it's somewhat going down)

 

[AM9]

I used to commute on majority of those and can safely say the newer trains are way better especially the powerful air conditioning
345s at least are very good on short journeys though I rarely hear of people taking them full length.

For me disappointing rolling stock has to be half the 700s especially ones without WiFi/seatback tables and vandalised toilets(at least it's somewhat going down)

If you are disappointed about the toilets being vandalised, then it is entirely down to the passengers.

 

[bramling]

If you are disappointed about the toilets being vandalised, then it is entirely down to the passengers.

For GN users this wasn’t an issue before Thameslink.

 

[VT 390]

For me personally I was very disappointed with the Avanti West Coast Evero units, the class 807 more so than the class 805.
In standard class the seats are better than other 80X stock but I find there are to many tables and to few row seats, even fewer row seats with a full window.
However, I was/am most disappointed in first class as on both the 805 and 807 the seats are a huge downgrade in most ways to the class 390 with more limited recline, less padding.
The 807 I find far worse though because first class is always limited to one end carriage which is really disappointing as all but 1 table for 2 are in the next carriage which is standard premium and the 1 table for 2 in first does not align with the window. They also have all the single seats facing the same direction when they could easily have had the table for 2 in the middle and have a more equal split on the single seat directions.
Because I use both standard and first class on Avanti and both classes (for my seating preferences) have really disappointing aspects I try to avoid Evero services and use Pendolino instead, despite the worse standard class seats I much prefer the 800/801/802 with GWR and LNER as the issues I have with the Evero do not really exist on those units.