The Middle East conflict

[Gloster]

Could have put this in now playing, but it's more relevant here (plus I'm trying not to play it!) It makes me so sad that this song perfectly sums up what's happening in the Middle East (and the world in general) today. I remember it so well, I was 11 at the time, when it reached number 3 in the charts.

61 years ago, and nothing's been learnt.

But one thing has changed: you can now vote from the day you become eligible for the draft. Isn’t the US Constitution wonderful.

 

[TravelDream]

South from the UAE takes it into Yemen - Saudi has no coastline on the Indian Ocean. It would have to be more westerly to get to a Red Sea port such as Jeddah or Yanbu, but as I posted above those ports are still vulnerable to the Houthis.

Apologies. I meant west. Obviously you'd want to avoid Yemen as far as possible to increase the distance from Iran and her proxies.

 

[najaB]

To be honest, I struggle to see a good solution to this. It's clear the US went in with no real objectives or plan and Trump's massive swings in attitude (to put it lightly) and lack of knows with the Iranian regime make it totally unpredictable.

Normalise relations with Iran. The current regime is extremely unpopular with the populace, and only manage to hold on to their position of power because they manage to make themselves the lesser of two evils (them vs the Evil USA).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Apr 2026 ==

I didn't think money was much of an issue over there!

While they have deep pockets, they're not infinitely deep. For example, look at how The Line has basically become The Dot (and barely that).

 

[Cdd89]

Normalise relations with Iran. The current regime is extremely unpopular with the populace, and only manage to hold on to their position of power because they manage to make themselves the lesser of two evils (them vs the Evil USA).

I'm actually increasingly convinced that this is the way forward, as mentioned I think the US allowed the perfect to be the enemy of the good in leaving the JPCOA which was half way there. I can see why the US didn't want to give sanctions relief to a nation calling for its annihilation, but it's far better than the current situation.

Full normalisation would be better, but I don't think that's achievable given that the government would continue projecting anti-western rhetoric and nuclear weapons would remain a red line. In other words I don't think Iran's leadership would be open to a full normalisation, for exactly the reason you give.

 

[najaB]

In other words I don't think Iran's leadership would be open to a full normalisation, for exactly the reason you give.

Indeed they wouldn't, but if American policy towards Iran was warm and friendly, without sanctions it would be obvious to the populace the the problem isn't the USA, but their own leadership.

 

[brad465]

Let's see Israeli interests try and gaslight us into why criticising this is antisemitic:

Lebanon thought there was a ceasefire - then Israel unleashed deadly blitz

Israel says Lebanon is not included in the ceasefire the US agreed to halt the war with Iran.

www.bbc.co.uk

The guns were supposed to have fallen silent.

It was, after all, just hours after US President Donald Trump had announced that a two-week ceasefire had been agreed to halt the war in the Middle East.

But just as the region was breathing a sigh of relief, Israeli jets conducted a 10-minute blitz across Lebanon - a massive aerial attack that killed at least 303 people and wounded 1,150 others, according to Lebanon's health ministry.

Local and Western condemnation was swift and widespread, but no criticism came from the US against its ally in this war.

Iran said this was "a blatant violation" of the ceasefire deal and has asked the US to halt the Israeli "aggression".

Lebanese officials say more than 1,700 people have been killed since Israel launched its latest campaign in Lebanon last month. Israel has said its operations are aimed at weakening Hezbollah and achieving what it calls remaining military objectives.

The war began with US and Israeli strikes on Iran on 28 February - prompting retaliation from Tehran against US allies in the Gulf, and from Iran's proxies - Hezbollah in Lebanon and the Houthis in Yemen - against Israel.

In response, Israel began striking Hezbollah and even ordered its troops to occupy large parts of Lebanon.

The two-week pause in the fighting was announced by Pakistan's Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif - who has been serving as mediator between the warring parties. Sharif said the US and its allies "have agreed to an immediate ceasefire everywhere including Lebanon and elsewhere".
But the main adversaries of Iran do not appear to share this understanding. The government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the ceasefire did not include Lebanon and Donald Trump signalled his agreement by stating the war in Lebanon was "a separate skirmish".

Wednesday, 8 April. It was around 14:00 in Beirut (11:00 GMT) when the skies over Lebanon darkened.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said that within 10 minutes it had "completed the largest co-ordinated strike across Lebanon since the start of Operation Roaring Lion" - the code name for the Israeli operation against Iran.
It said it had targeted "100+ Hezbollah headquarters, military arrays, & command-and-control centres in Beirut, Bekaa and southern Lebanon".
Densely populated parts of central Beirut were hit in strikes described by officials as among the heaviest since Hezbollah joined the conflict in early March.
And it was not just the traditional Hezbollah stronghold of Dahieh that was hit in the Lebanese capital - the city centre was also hit.
Safa Bleik, a registered nurse and coordinator for international medical charity Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF), happened to be inside the Rafik Hariri Hospital in Beirut as the attacks unfolded.
"The first patients came in with severe head injuries, with fragments of glass, metal and debris lodged in their bodies. Many were unconscious. Some died shortly after arrival," she said.
"Soon, the emergency room filled with people searching," Bleik said. "I was trying to stop the bleeding of a man who had arrived with severe head trauma and shrapnel in his abdomen, when a young man came up to me holding a phone, showing me a photo of his brother. He was asking if I had seen him."
Casualties were reported in the Bekaa Valley, in the east, and in the southern Nabatieh, Sidon and Tyre regions.
Hezbollah may have been taken by surprise - their only response appeared to have been a few rockets fired towards Israel hours later.
On Thursday, Israel continued its attacks, saying it had killed "70+ terrorists". It denies targeting civilians. The IDF also said Hezbollah had fired some 30 rockets at northern Israel, with no reports of injuries or damage.
The IDF also said it had "ELIMINATED: Ali Yusuf Harshi, the personal secretary to Hezbollah Secretary-General Naim Qassem in Beirut".
There has been no confirmation. The BBC is unable to verify the claims.

 

[GusB]

Let's see Israeli interests try and gaslight us into why criticising this is antisemitic:

Lebanon thought there was a ceasefire - then Israel unleashed deadly blitz

Israel says Lebanon is not included in the ceasefire the US agreed to halt the war with Iran.

www.bbc.co.uk

The monsters in charge of that country simply don't care.

Israel will never have security as long as Netanyahu and his fascist colleagues remain in power. Quite frankly, I'm angry enough about this situation to suggest that Israel doesn't deserve security; however, there are moderate Israelis who don't want this carnage to continue and I really want them to have peace.

Unfortunately, it's the ultra-nationalist voices that shout the loudest and, as long as Uncle Sam keeps bankrolling them, the violence will continue.

There's absolutely no need for this destruction; Israel's intelligence agencies are supposed to be among the most effective in the world and it has proved that it can take out individuals using drones and other "surgical strikes". Instead it chooses to target civilian areas under the pretence that Hezbollah operatives had command centres there - just as all those hospitals in Gaza were supposed to be portals for Hamas' vast tunnel network.

Opposition to Israel's actions will, of course, be denounced as "anti-semitic". That's the way they roll.

 

[najaB]

Opposition to Israel's actions will, of course, be denounced as "anti-semitic". That's the way they roll.

The advantage of defining themselves as "the Jewish state" - they can then take that to mean religion, ethnicity or nationality as suits the situation.

 

[nw1]

The monsters in charge of that country simply don't care.

Israel will never have security as long as Netanyahu and his fascist colleagues remain in power. Quite frankly, I'm angry enough about this situation to suggest that Israel doesn't deserve security; however, there are moderate Israelis who don't want this carnage to continue and I really want them to have peace.

Unfortunately, it's the ultra-nationalist voices that shout the loudest and, as long as Uncle Sam keeps bankrolling them, the violence will continue.

There's absolutely no need for this destruction; Israel's intelligence agencies are supposed to be among the most effective in the world and it has proved that it can take out individuals using drones and other "surgical strikes". Instead it chooses to target civilian areas under the pretence that Hezbollah operatives had command centres there - just as all those hospitals in Gaza were supposed to be portals for Hamas' vast tunnel network.

Opposition to Israel's actions will, of course, be denounced as "anti-semitic". That's the way they roll.

It's time people become more thick-skinned about these kind of manipulative insults from this ultra-right-wing, murderous government.

I do find the "Anti Defamation League" an ironic name. Defamation of others is what the current Israeli government, and its supporters, are experts at. Defaming others by claiming that dislike of the Israeli government equals dislike of all Jewish people. Time people entirely ignore their pathetic insults.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The monsters in charge of that country simply don't care.

Israel will never have security as long as Netanyahu and his fascist colleagues remain in power. Quite frankly, I'm angry enough about this situation to suggest that Israel doesn't deserve security; however, there are moderate Israelis who don't want this carnage to continue and I really want them to have peace.

I'm equally angry and, given that they voted for this government in huge numbers knowing exactly what this government stood for, my view is they deserve everything they get. I do feel very sorry for the minority who didn't vote for this government, though.

But none of this is new. Netanyahu and his party didn't agree with the Oslo Accords so, conveniently for them, Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by someone with very close links to the same Israeli far right politicians who are now in power. The Knesset had to specifically pass a law preventing the President of Israel from pardoning Rabin's assassin.

This is all just so transparent. Israel didn't want a ceasefire and so they have deliberately gone out and murdered civilians in order to try and break that ceasefire. Having been bounced by Israel into the war, the US has been bounced again into breaking the ceasefire that they'd just agreed.

I genuinely don't understand why a small nation of nine million people has such an oversized influence on US and Western policy. Even taking into account the extremely lavish funding they bestow on the main UK political parties. They're the very definition of letting the tail wag the dog.

It's time people become more thick-skinned about these kind of manipulative insults from this ultra-right-wing, murderous government.

The trouble isn't that people aren't thick-skinned. The trouble is that the authorities and the media enable the manipulative insults and so you spend your entire time arguing about why you're not anti-Semitic. We've seen that with the outlandish criticism and the politically motivated prosecutions of the likes of Kneecap. The conversation is about whether they're anti-Semitic; the very valid criticisms that they make of the genocide-adjacent Israeli government don't get a look in.

It's transparent but it works: even people like Michael Rosen and Zack Polanski get labellled as anti-Semitic, despite the fact that they are both Jewish. Apparently they are Jew-hating Jews. That's an anti-Semitic trope that the right-wing don't mind using. As Luke Akehurst, MP for North Durham and influential Starmerite aide, said:

they have abandoned very much of their Jewish identity, they don’t go to shul [synagogue] at all. You know, it’s become a purely cultural thing around the occasional bowl of chicken soup or whatever.

 

[ainsworth74]

But none of this is new. Netanyahu and his party didn't agree with the Oslo Accords so, conveniently for them, Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by someone with very close links to the same Israeli far right politicians who are now in power.

Really is one of those interesting turning points isn't it? What if he hadn't have been assassinated and the Oslo Accords didn't die as a consequence?

Never forget the sort of rhetoric that Netanyahu had no problem being associated with in the build up to his assassination:

Happily marching in front of a coffin and noose for Rabin. Or Ben-Gvir boasting that he after stealing the hood ornament off Rabin's car that "We got to his car, and we'll get him too" weeks before his was assassinated.

I don't think that Netanyahu (or Ben-Gvir who was only in his late teens at the time) organised the assassination of Rabin but they certainly will have been pleased and were clearly happily creating the conditions for someone to think that it was what needed to be done.

I'm equally angry and, given that they voted for this government in huge numbers knowing exactly what this government stood for, my view is they deserve everything they get. I do feel very sorry for the minority who didn't vote for this government, though.

In fairness it wasn't a decisive victory (in terms of the popular vote) as anti-Netanyahu parties did secure 49.5(ish)% of the vote but due to political wrangling and quirks of the Israeli electoral system (I think broadly some left wing anti-Netanyahu parties fell below the minimum threshold to gain seats partly because of not wanting to run together and similar) the right wing and ultra-right wing parties managed to coble together the majority they needed.

Clearly 50 odd percent of people voting for those awful parties (and turnout was only 70% as well) is 50% too many but lets not runaway with ourselves that these parties enjoy vast overwhelming support. Last year there were some substantial protests last year as well:

Hundreds of thousands of demonstrators have gathered in Tel Aviv to call for an end to the war in Gaza and the release of hostages, one of the largest demonstrations in Israel since the start of the fighting in October 2023.

The rally on Sunday evening was the culmination of a day of nationwide protests and a general strike to pressure the government to halt the military campaign. “Bring them all home! Stop the war!” shouted the vast crowd, which had converged on the so-called Hostage Square in Tel Aviv plaza – a focal point for protesters throughout the war.

The Hostage and Missing Families Forum, the initiator of the day of protest, estimated that about 500,000 people joined the demonstration in Tel Aviv – a figure not confirmed by the police. “We demand a comprehensive and achievable agreement and an end to the war,” said Einav Zangauker, mother of hostage Matan and a leading figure of the protest movement.

“We demand what is rightfully ours – our children. The Israeli government has transformed a just war into a pointless war.”

Hundreds of thousands of protesters gather in Tel Aviv to demand end to Gaza war

One of largest rallies in Israel since start of conflict follows general strike to press government to stop military action

www.theguardian.com

(Obviously we can quibble with her over whether it was ever a "just" war or not...)

Assuming the number if broadly accurate with 500,000 protestors that's about 5% of the population of Israel (which is around 10m). That would in the region of 3.5m people protesting in London. That's a big protest. Even if you give them a significant optimism bias cut (say to 250,000) it would still be a huge protest.

Absolutely, everyone who voted for this government of thugs and killers should get what they deserve (see also MAGA voters in the US). But they are not an overwhelming majority of the population (just like MAGA voters aren't in the US) even if, in particular, those right wing thugs like to try and pretend they are (just as they do in the US, huh, I'm seeing more and more similarities as time goes on...).

 

[43096]

Opposition to Israel's actions will, of course, be denounced as "anti-semitic". That's the way they roll.

It’s a sign of weakness that that is the only card they can play to deflect from the genocide the state of Israel is perpetrating.

Considering the historical reasons why Israel was created in the first place, it makes their actions even more disgraceful.

 

[najaB]

Considering the historical reasons why Israel was created in the first place, it makes their actions even more disgraceful.

This was made plain by their recent actions in Lebanon:

In private calls to local leaders across southern Lebanon, Israeli military officials have assured several Christian and Druse communities that they could remain in the evacuation zone. They have pressed them, however, to force out any Lebanese from neighboring Shiite Muslim communities who have sought refuge among them as Israeli bombardments flatten Shiite towns, according to local Christian, Druse and Shiite leaders who spoke to The New York Times. The Shiites make up the majority of southern Lebanon.

Local leaders took the messages as a clear signal: Israel is trying to force out one group in the south — Shiites, who are from the same sect as Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed militant group that Israel is trying to vanquish.

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/01/world/middleeast/lebanon-shiite-israel-evacuation.html

In short: Christians were being warned not to shelter Muslims from the Jews.

 

[dgl]

This was made plain by their recent actions in Lebanon:

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/01/world/middleeast/lebanon-shiite-israel-evacuation.html

In short: Christians were being warned not to shelter Muslims from the Jews.

So like Jews and Christians during the Nazi occupation of Germany, you'd have thought they'd know better.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Synagogue in Tehran destroyed by US-Israeli air strikes (CNN News video)

In a statement to CNN, the IDF seemingly took responsibility for the strike saying it “regrets the collateral damage to the synagogue and emphasises the strike was targeted at senior military targets… not at any places of worship

 

[Annetts key]

Synagogue in Tehran destroyed by US-Israeli air strikes (CNN News video)

Each time that the Israel government says that an attack was targeted at senior military targets or similar wording, when civilian infrastructure, homes, places of worship have been destroyed, often with civilian injuries or deaths, I think about what they would say if it was their own civilian infrastructure, homes, places of worship etc. that were being destroyed and damaged in the same numbers within Israel...

 

[brad465]

Synagogue in Tehran destroyed by US-Israeli air strikes (CNN News video)

Zionist groups have the cheek of calling any Jews who oppose Israeli military and government action as "self-hating Jews", yet IDF forces, who claim to be acting for Jews, destroying synagogues is an actual example of self-hating.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Zionist groups have the cheek of calling any Jews who oppose Israeli military and government action as "self-hating Jews", yet IDF forces, who claim to be acting for Jews, destroying synagogues is an actual example of self-hating.

I think more than anything, I’m surprised* that Iran even had Synagogues considering all we hear on mainstream media is how dangerous the Middle East is to non-Muslims and how there’s no religious freedom except Israel which is a safe haven.

*Genuinely I’m surprised, goes to show you how much i/the average Westerner know about Iran.

I’m reminded of this Charlie Kirk clip where Charlie is surprised to learn that his debater is a Christian from Iran:

(Transcript of above)

Charlie Kirk: Do you think that it's better for Christianity to have Israel controlled by Jews or Israel controlled by Muslims?

Other guy: Part of my family is from Tehran. They're Iranian.

Charlie Kirk: They are Shia Muslim.

Other guy: No, they are Christian. They are Armenian. They've lived in Tehran their entire life. There's a big community. They have churches that they go every single Sunday. They are proud of who they are. They wear their crosses out … But let's go talk about like let's talk about Egypt, Syria, Jordan. They have thousands of churches there. They have big Christian faith over there. But they are Muslim majority countries and run by Muslims. And the churches are protected.
*Charlie Kirk visibly shocked*

This isn’t a praise of the Iranian government/Middle East and lots of work needs to be done of course when it comes to human rights etc… but I think the narrative that “Iran is bad and want to kill us” which clearly a few commentators on here seem to have been fed is an exaggeration if not a lie. The only threat Iran poses to the West is a threat to the West/Israel’s domination in the middle-east.

Joe Kent, former National Counter terrorism Director, who resigned last month said this in his resignation letter:

I cannot in good conscience support the ongoing war in Iran. Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, and it is clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby.

 

[Annetts key]

Iran actually has many (maybe most) of the religions of the world within it's borders. So it is a very simplification to paint it as only being a country of one religion.

It's also a mixture of different people from different ethnic backgrounds.

But alas powerful people in Israel and in the U.S. always paint the country as a bad villain.

 

[Railwaycat]

I think more than anything, I’m surprised* that Iran even had Synagogues considering all we hear on mainstream media is how dangerous the Middle East is to non-Muslims and how there’s no religious freedom except Israel which is a safe haven.

*Genuinely I’m surprised, goes to show you how much i/the average Westerner know about Iran.


This isn’t a praise of the Iranian government/Middle East and lots of work needs to be done of course when it comes to human rights etc… but I think the narrative that “Iran is bad and want to kill us” which clearly a few commentators on here seem to have been fed is an exaggeration if not a lie. The only threat Iran poses to the West is a threat to the West/Israel’s domination in the middle-east.

Joe Kent, former National Counter terrorism Director, who resigned last month said this in his resignation letter:

Look up Jews in Iran on Wikipedia (I did recently). There's only about 9000 of them, but not only do they have their own synagogue but they are allotted one seat in parliament, not bad for a tiny minority. It appears that in the time of the Shah the number was about 100,000, but after the revolution many emigrated, understandable I suppose - many were also called up to fight in Iraq apparently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But alas powerful people in Israel and in the U.S. always paint the country as a bad villain.

I think to be fair the regime is a villain. But not the country. And of course there are other villainous regimes in this war too, such as the two countries that started it.

 

[najaB]

Look up Jews in Iran on Wikipedia (I did recently). There's only about 9000 of them, but not only do they have their own synagogue but they are allotted one seat in parliament, not bad for a tiny minority

I saw an Instagram reel about this recently, one of the Iranian Jews claimed to have moved from the USA since they felt more free in Iran than the USA.

 

[brad465]

I saw an Instagram reel about this recently, one of the Iranian Jews claimed to have moved from the USA since they felt more free in Iran than the USA.

If I saw this two months ago I'd have instantly thought "boll***s", but now I'm inclined to believe them.

 

[Cdd89]

If I saw this two months ago I'd have instantly thought "boll***s", but now I'm inclined to believe them.

I was also wondering how recently this reel was seen. I'd actually have found it more believable two months ago, given that there's been an internet blackout for the last two months – a fact which both undermines the point about freedom, and makes you question how they posted it.

 

[Gloster]

So now Trump has decided that the US Navy is to blockade the Straits of Hormuz. How? Any US Navy ship in the straits risks being an easy target for Iranian missiles, should the Iranians decide to target it. I would suspect that the Iranian regime will not be too quick to fire rockets, instead waiting for the US to act in a way that is much easier to depict as hostile.

Trump said, “Effective immediately, the United States Navy, the Finest in the World, will begin the process of BLOCKADING any and all Ships trying to enter, or leave, the Strait of Hormuz”, was posted on Truth Social. He added, “Any Iranian who fires at us, or at peaceful vessels, will be BLOWN TO HELL.” So his usual conciliatory self

Alternatively, the US may use satellites or other intelligence to identify ships passing through the straits and then stop them further out. I can see stopping of merchant ships beyond the twelve mile limit, twenty-four if you want to argue, going down well in other parts of the world. Or they could try sanctions against the owners, but this is likely to appear to be a weak response after all the rhetoric.

As ever, Trump’s announcement does not seem to be a considered response to the situation, merely what has most recently wandered in to his scrambled brain. But he and his closest won’t be the ones to pay the price.

 

[JamieL]

So now Trump has decided that the US Navy is to blockade the Straits of Hormuz. How? Any US Navy ship in the straits risks being an easy target for Iranian missiles, should the Iranians decide to target it. I would suspect that the Iranian regime will not be too quick to fire rockets, instead waiting for the US to act in a way that is much easier to depict as hostile.

Alternatively, the US may use satellites or other intelligence to identify ships passing through the straits and then stop them further out. I can see stopping of merchant ships beyond the twelve mile limit, twenty-four if you want to argue, going down well in other parts of the world. Or they could try sanctions against the owners, but this is likely to appear to be a weak response after all the rhetoric.

As ever, Trump’s announcement does not seem to be a considered response to the situation, merely what has most recently wandered in to his scrambled brain. But he and his closest won’t be the ones to pay the price.

It is just typical Trump trying to 'wrongfoot' his opponents by doing what they would not expect as well a vain attempt to reverse the massive, golden bargaining chip he has given Iran now they know they can crash the global economy at will. Of course, all he does by this announcement is just more concern about disruption of the Strait and we will likely to see an impact in the markets when they open.

 

[Cdd89]

Morally it's correct – either the strait should be open for all, or closed for all.

Practically, it will have the effect of making the oil price go up further. So it's a "courageous" decision if he's concerned about the price of fuel.

 

[AlterEgo]

Morally it's correct – either the strait should be open for all, or closed for all.

Practically, it will have the effect of making the oil price go up further. So it's a "courageous" decision if he's concerned about the price of fuel.

Quite. He is treading a very dangerous line with the midterms coming up. The economy is absolutely the key issue in American politics and always has been in the postwar era.

 

[swt_passenger]

So now Trump has decided that the US Navy is to blockade the Straits of Hormuz.

The normal usage of that phrase would mean no ships at all ‘using’ the Straits.

 

[nw1]

I think it's time he was Amendment 25'd as soon as possible.

It's clear he's a vacuous imbecile with less intelligence than an average 10 year old.