Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway updates

[DelW]

Given that XC have now expressed a desire for the self same Voyagers...

XC would have a better case if they actually used the ones they've got, rather than towing them around empty and locked out. Staffing seems to be more of a problem than rolling stock.

 

[Harpo]

LIVE FROM EUSTON - when do these start running? I could happily do use that for my commute

A rescue loco at Euston. Handy except, like pandas mating, they’ve probably forgotten how.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Oh. That's not fair! Is it an xc voyager or a virgin voyager?

Ex-Avanti 221101-221106 are the Available 221s

 

[DarloRich]

Ex-Avanti 221101-221106 are the Available 221s

cheers. An awful train but the best of an awful litter. I will stick to LNWR

 

[Tilting007]

Looks to be running Ok now, held 15 mins at Nuneaton maybe some MPs or etc. were late turning up.

Waiting for the Relief driver

 

[Southern Dvr]

WSMR’s problems come from the fact that the previous incarnation ran trains where the journey was enjoyable and service was excellent. Didn’t matter that it wasn’t the most direct route it was all about the journey.

The problem with this operation is that the plan is to use DMUs that have never had a great reputation and the fact the journey will take longer than other means won’t be rescued by the comfort.

 

[vuzzeho]

WSMR’s problems come from the fact that the previous incarnation ran trains where the journey was enjoyable and service was excellent. Didn’t matter that it wasn’t the most direct route it was all about the journey.

The problem with this operation is that the plan is to use DMUs that have never had a great reputation and the fact the journey will take longer than other means won’t be rescued by the comfort.

Well, no, their problems come from a lack of capacity on the West Coast. The previous incarnation may have run nice trains but it also did matter that it wasn't the most direct route - it was inconvenient.

The plan to use Voyagers is flawed - not because of the trains themselves (for all the hate from enthusiasts, the travelling public seems to have not minded them with Virgin, Avanti, or Grand Central) but because XC wants them too and has a much better case for it. Either way, even if they wanted to use something else, what would they use? Mk3s and 4s are far too old to be used for a new service now.

 

[357]

The plan to use Voyagers is flawed ... because XC wants them too and has a much better case for it.

Use case does not matter - money and contracts matter.

Rolling stock is still privatised.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Either way, even if they wanted to use something else, what would they use? Mk3s and 4s are far too old to be used for a new service now.

Running on the assumption that it has to be 125mph for the path, there are only the 6 ex-Avanti Voyagers available any time soon that fit that role, assuming CorssCountry don't lease them first.
I guess the only other option would be reviving a HST.

 

[zwk500]

Running on the assumption that it has to be 125mph for the path, there are only the 6 ex-Avanti Voyagers available any time soon that fit that role, assuming CorssCountry don't lease them first.
I guess the only other option would be reviving a HST.

As mentioned above, I expect the issue of what trains they run is secondary to being offered schedules to run them to.

 

[The Planner]

Running on the assumption that it has to be 125mph for the path, there are only the 6 ex-Avanti Voyagers available any time soon that fit that role, assuming CorssCountry don't lease them first.
I guess the only other option would be reviving a HST.

They will be based on the MU profile, not EPS.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They will be based on the MU profile, not EPS.

What journey times would we be looking at with a 221?

 

[The Planner]

What journey times would we be looking at with a 221?

Similar to Lumo up to Nuneaton.

 

[DavidGrain]

Well if they get to operate the service, I shall use it once. I have only done the Sutton Park Line once on a diversion.
The previous operator was my preferred choice as I could drive to Tame bridge Parkway easier than I could get a bus into Birmingham

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Mar 2026 ==

A video taken on board

 

[Zontar]

Does any know or suspect when a decision is due?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Summer, at the earliest.

 

[Zontar]

Summer, at the earliest.

Thanks, am I right in thinking they want to start in Dec 26 if they get approval?

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks, am I right in thinking they want to start in Dec 26 if they get approval?

during the Dec 26 timetable.

 

[Snow1964]

When they can demonstrate there's capacity for their services without further destroying the WCML's timekeeping. This may take some doing.

You may also be less keen for a Voyager, which is (I think) what they plan to actually use

It is a bit messy administratively, because some of the paths they identified are on paper allocated to other operators, who aren't actually running 100% of trains they have slots for.

There are circular debates,
1) if the paths mess up timekeeping why were they allowed for other users (so clutching at straws reason)
2) if paths released (because not being used) why should anyone new need to jump through hoops to demonstrate paths work (because they have previously been agreed and accepted)
3) simply a question of why should unused paths be allowed to be hoarded and retained, not a use them or lose them basis. Covid cuts were 6 years ago, if still not restoring a service, how much longer is it reasonable to keep slots empty

ORR and Network Rail are not really operating level playing field on some of their reasons here.

 

[craigybagel]

Summer, at the earliest.

Once they've finished laughing and managed to successfully throw the application in the bin?

 

[Bald Rick]

There are circular debates,
1) if the paths mess up timekeeping why were they allowed for other users (so clutching at straws reason)
2) if paths released (because not being used) why should anyone new need to jump through hoops to demonstrate paths work (because they have previously been agreed and accepted)

That’s not quite right. The proposals use paths that use part of other paths, but also use new paths on other bits of the network. You have to take the whole picture into consideration.

 

[LUYMun]

WSMR announces that it wants to use BEMU bi-modes on the Alstom Adessia platform, which going by the pictures look very continental.

WSMR plans Alstom-built bi-mode sets if open access bid approved

New Alstom battery-electric bi-mode trains planned for the long term should application be approved.

www.railmagazine.com

WSMR plans Alstom-built bi-mode sets if open access bid approved​

Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway (WSMR) has said it will invest in new Alstom battery-electric bi-mode trains if its open access application is successful.

[...]

In a letter to the regulator and Network Rail, Mobilisation Director Darren Horley said: “Should our application be successful, WSMR will work alongside its parent company, Alstom, and will commit to invest in a new bi-mode battery-electric fleet based on the Adessia platform - Alstom's new generation passenger train designed specifically for the UK market.

[...]

While the Adessia (an evolution of the Aventra operated by the likes of the Elizabeth line, London Overground and West Midlands Trains) is a commuter train, any units built for WSMR would be a long-distance, high-speed derivative for use from 2030 onwards.

[...]

“The new fleet will perform to a standard no lower than the characteristics of the (Hitachi) Class 800 series,” Horley added. RAIL understands the trains would be built in Derby and “quite different” to existing Adessias, with Alstom keen to use its own trains on its own open access service. In the short-term, Horley said WSMR would invest £6.5 million in upgrading an existing diesel multiple unit fleet. WSMR’s application specified these as either Class 221s or ‘222s’, although the latter are now going to be split between Lumo and ScotRail.

Six off lease ‘221s’ (221101-106) remain at Derby after being withdrawn by Avanti West Coast in December 2024. However, CrossCountry has submitted a business case to the Department for Transport to be able to use the Beacon Rail-owned units.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

WSMR will work alongside its parent company, Alstom

I am not surprised they plan to buy trains from themselves.

 

[swt_passenger]

WSMR announces that it wants to use BEMU bi-modes on the Alstom Adessia platform, which going by the pictures look very continental.

I bet they won’t look very continental once they’ve been squeezed into our vehicle gauge…

 

[Bald Rick]

I guess that means re-applying for access rights then, for a more realisitic introduction time and with further assessments for power requirements etc.

 

[zwk500]

I guess that means re-applying for access rights then, for a more realisitic introduction time and with further assessments for power requirements etc.

In the short-term, Horley said WSMR would invest £6.5 million in upgrading an existing diesel multiple unit fleet. WSMR’s application specified these as either Class 221s or ‘222s’, although the latter are now going to be split between Lumo and ScotRail.

Presumably WSMR's strategy is to get in on their existing access proposal using Voyagers, and then apply for modification of the paths once established.

How realistic that strategy is as a route to success is another question entirely...

 

[Zontar]

What are they going to do if cross-country get the remaining 221 and wsmr actually get he green light?

 

[DarloRich]

What are they going to do if cross-country get the remaining 221 and wsmr actually get he green light?

See if Flying Scotsman or Tornado are available

How realistic that strategy is as a route to success is another question entirely...

or it is a trojan horse. Get this route agreed, run it for a bit, claim it doesn't work. Switch focus to a better destination.

 

[zwk500]

or it is a trojan horse. Get this route agreed, run it for a bit, claim it doesn't work. Switch focus to a better destination.

And have to go through the economics/revenue tests all over again? Can't see that being worth it tbh.

 

[Harpo]

It’s almost starting to sound like the timescales will align with the opening of HS2 and the release of WCML paths.