Passenger trapped in Elizabeth line door

[CarrotPie]

I'm assuming the fence is there because platform 2 will frequently have non-stop GWR trains running through at line speed, so it's mitigating that risk. It's not an uncommon setup.

And moving the fence towards the fast lines to create more space on platform 3 will make platform 2 too narrow for people to "stand well back from the platform edge" when that platform is in use.

 

[Horizon22]

I'm assuming the fence is there because platform 2 will frequently have non-stop GWR trains running through at line speed, so it's mitigating that risk. It's not an uncommon setup.

Indeed. Walking people down P2 and then back across to go up the stairs would just create a new bottleneck as well as adding additional safety risks.

The barriers have been in place at Ealing Broadway - and all other stations with main line platforms - for some time now.

 

[BrianW]

I was surprised to read that the driver closed the doors and departed whilst people were still trying to get on and off. At the very least, people would have been overcarried or left behind. I'm also surprised that the fence wasn't mentioned in more detail. It prevents people from walking along platform 2 and therefore creates a pinch point on platform 3 at the narrow section by the waiting room. I will usually divert via the non busy side of a building on an island platform. Plenty of other people do the same.

I too, unusually, find myself thinking the RAIB investigation has failed to give as full consideration of potential contributing factors as I would have normally expected, e.g:
The 'early' closing of doors
The driver's previous
The avoidable narrowness of the platform due to an increased width of waiting room
The location of the platform assistant in proximity to the waiting room and the concentration of passengers
The 'mixing' of passengers alighting the train and those seeking to join, esp by the waiting room
The 'notice' given to passengers in the waiting room, including the two people most affected
The likely increased incidence of poor passenger awareness at the time of day (a factor in the Ickenham fatality also reported this week)
And the fact that Elizabeth Line trains have excessive gaps from the platform, esp for 'irregular' passengers.
Hopefully the RAIB has 'procedures' for reviewing its own 'performance', e.g a periodic Quality Audit, training, review, reflection, etc. Sorry.
Perhaps I might be directed to an Annual Review of Rail Safety Performance, eg Review of Elizabeth Line safety.

 

[chiltern trev]

I have just been reading Report 01/2026, issued March 2026, Passenger trapped and dragged at Ealing Broadway.

A contributory factory was the congested nature of the platform particularly around the new waiting room - see Figure 17, para 141, page 34.

It is clear the new waiting room obstructs the platform more than the old structure.

So why is there no a recommendation to remove the new structure and if a waiting room is required, replace with a narrower waiting room in line with the original waiting room footprint.

 

[Sheridan]

The RAIB report states there were approximately 1200 passengers on board (paragraph 47). Is this normal for that route at that time? Was there an event on somewhere?

 

[NSEWonderer]

The RAIB report states there were approximately 1200 passengers on board (paragraph 47). Is this normal for that route at that time? Was there an event on somewhere?

Pretty normal. Elizabeth line is very busy from opening to closing

 

[Horizon22]

The RAIB report states there were approximately 1200 passengers on board (paragraph 47). Is this normal for that route at that time? Was there an event on somewhere?

Last Elizabeth line from Central London to stations west of Hayes for the night. Often busy as a result as there’s normally something on that’s finished up and would drive demand most evenings.

There’s some GWR departures from Paddington later but there’s a bit of a gap.

 

[Purple Train]

Last Elizabeth line from Central London to stations west of Hayes for the night. Often busy as a result as there’s normally something on that’s finished up and would drive demand most evenings.

There’s some GWR departures from Paddington later but there’s a bit of a gap.

Indeed, which is why I was somewhat surprised that more was not made of the driver's decision to close the doors when passengers were still boarding and alighting. Certainly the last time I took the last Reading service of the night (22.48 off Paddington on a Saturday evening) I was standing as far as Slough.

I have to say, I'm certainly very glad that I don't have to use Ealing Broadway station as regularly as I used to - while the much-maligned platform 4 is okay for my young legs, and the Tube platforms are fine, having to fight my way down platform 3 no matter how busy the station is does get quite irritating. The new waiting room serves its purpose very well but could indeed really do with being just a little bit less wide.

 

[crablab]

I have to say, I'm certainly very glad that I don't have to use Ealing Broadway station as regularly as I used to

Ealing Broadway is generally pretty bad. It's incredibly busy all the time; feels like most of the train gets off there.

The waiting room is in the way, and a chunk is taken up by a ticket office/information desk that's never in use! Whilst I'm always hesitant about downgrades to passenger facilities, Ealing Broadway is so busy I'd suggest removal of the waiting room might be appropriate.

I'm surprised the shouty-announcements about "standing back" form part of their controls - these are not, in my experience, very effective. Especially at stations, like Ealing Broadway, where there isn't really anywhere for passengers to go - the platform is full and to leave you've got to get past the choke point.

 

[Horizon22]

Ealing Broadway is generally pretty bad. It's incredibly busy all the time; feels like most of the train gets off there.

The waiting room is in the way, and a chunk is taken up by a ticket office/information desk that's never in use! Whilst I'm always hesitant about downgrades to passenger facilities, Ealing Broadway is so busy I'd suggest removal of the waiting room might be appropriate.

I think the issue is the footprint of the station is just too small now. Most stations with a similar level or passengers will have another or multiple other exits, but that doesn’t exist. Not to mention the connection to LU.

Would need a major rebuild to rectify and a exit via the A4020 directly.

 

[BrianW]

I think the issue is the footprint of the station is just too small now. Most stations with a similar level or passengers will have another or multiple other exits, but that doesn’t exist. Not to mention the connection to LU.

Would need a major rebuild to rectify and a exit via the A4020 directly.

I recall just about, when the District Line station was separate from the exGWR (and Central Line?) station. The latter had IIRC a 'drop off' road in front of it. The 'rebuild' included the large tower block that BBC occupied. Maybe a route direct to the A4020 might discharge where the Confissirie (?) Francais might have been, where I ogled many an HO French train?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2026 ==

I have just been reading Report 01/2026, issued March 2026, Passenger trapped and dragged at Ealing Broadway.

A contributory factory was the congested nature of the platform particularly around the new waiting room - see Figure 17, para 141, page 34.

It is clear the new waiting room obstructs the platform more than the old structure.

So why is there no a recommendation to remove the new structure and if a waiting room is required, replace with a narrower waiting room in line with the original waiting room footprint.

Apparently, IIUC, the 'plan' was for a waiting room of the pre-existing dimensions, but somehow, undetected and unapproved, a deeper one was provided. It still left a platform width there (just) of 'adequate' width. Looks to me like a (possible0 shortcoming of oversight of the design and approval 'process'.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Mar 2026 ==

Last Elizabeth line from Central London to stations west of Hayes for the night. Often busy as a result as there’s normally something on that’s finished up and would drive demand most evenings.

There’s some GWR departures from Paddington later but there’s a bit of a gap.

Again sadly I'm surprised there seems to be no reference in the RAIB report to this being the last train to Maidenhead, nor to how long ago was the previous train, nor to crowding of the train and likely inhibiting of leaving or boarding the train. Happy to be corrected.

 

[Dstock7080]

I recall just about, when the District Line station was separate from the exGWR (and Central Line?) station. The latter had IIRC a 'drop off' road in front of it. The 'rebuild' included the large tower block that BBC occupied. Maybe a route direct to the A4020 might discharge where the Confissirie (?) Francais might have been, where I ogled many an HO French train?

Prior to the 1960s rebuild, there was a footbridge spanning all platforms.

Confiserie Francaise was at 7 The Mall, it’s (non-working) clock still remains above the current Paddy Power occupant.

The new emergency exit footbridge comes out much further along The Mall at No. 21/22

 

[philthetube]

I have just been checking images of Ealing Broadway and notice that the yellow line is well back from the platform edge, as expected

Would it help if the line was closer to the edge as on the underground. This was done partly to improve safety as it both created more platform space and prevented people from walking along the platform edge at busy times.

It has been left like this so presumably LUL are happy with it.

 

[Spamcan81]

Not surprised with that

I remember seeing a video of the below umbrella on the Line, that a passenger had tried to use to hold the doors, train had gained interlock even with the thick part of it in the door and subsequently departed. It would be quite hard I'd assume to see an umbrella handle sticking out on the small cctv monitors.View attachment 171631

Saw that happen on a train leaving Waterloo East about three years ago. Someone tried to stop the doors from closing by shoving their furled umbrella between them. Train departed with umbrella sticking out the doors and it proceeded to strike the infrastructure all the way to the next station.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Saw that happen on a train leaving Waterloo East about three years ago. Someone tried to stop the doors from closing by shoving their furled umbrella between them. Train departed with umbrella sticking out the doors and it proceeded to strike the infrastructure all the way to the next station.

Yep there was a walking cane once stuck in the doors of a 345 that by some miracle didnt hit any passenger on the platforms when it arrived at Stratford as it so happened to be the one time no passengers stood on or past the yellow line.

 

[357]

Yep there was a walking cane once stuck in the doors of a 345 that by some miracle didnt hit any passenger on the platforms when it arrived at Stratford as it so happened to be the one time no passengers stood on or past the yellow line.

I've still got a video of that somewhere ...

 

[saismee]

I've still got a video of that somewhere ...

I would love to see that

 

[NSEWonderer]

I've still got a video of that somewhere ...

Haha I lost the video myself

 

[Taunton]

Happened just a couple of months after a discussion on here about the PTI at this specific station, and myself stopping off to look at the issues and writing it up, here:

Elizabeth Line Platform Gaps - BBC News

All of the other stations are built to level boarding specs for LO. The mayor wanted LO to be level access. I'm actually not sure about what the height and offsets are for 'new' platforms on the route but I know they are much higher than the disused sections. I'll do some digging but I think...

www.railforums.co.uk

Notably the difficulties at the newly narrowed point on the same westbound platform managed to get commented on in there as well, and that was just myself and one staff member, not a substantial crowd!

Actually I blame the DfT. The train was already just a couple of minutes late, and the doors are stated to have been closed after a minimal dwell before even everyone had managed to alight, let alone those getting on - this on the last train of the night. Because of course punctuality statistics to the minute are what is important, those are reported to the DfT. Paying passengers who miss their last train of the night are not reported to the DfT, so are not important.

Paragraph 83 of the report does not mention this, giving instead less likely reasons why the driver might be distracted. This will come as a surprise to those well experienced in TfL operations nowadays. I've also written here before how even on a short DLR train the doors were closed on a pram being manoeuvred in to the train over the step, right after the depart signal sounded. This on a TfL line where all the platforms now have self-praising posters saying they are 99.6% on time.

 

[ModernRailways]

Actually I blame the DfT. The train was already just a couple of minutes late, and the doors are stated to have been closed after a minimal dwell before even everyone had managed to alight, let alone those getting on - this on the last train of the night. Because of course punctuality statistics to the minute are what is important, those are reported to the DfT. Paying passengers who miss their last train of the night are not reported to the DfT, so are not important.

I disagree, myself and the majority of others I speak too and work with simply don’t care enough about punctuality, safety comes first, and it isn’t us who would pick up the bill for the delay minutes. We may get a delay slip through asking for a reason but it’s plenty easy to put passengers slow to board/alight. At the end of the day, if we do have an incident, then it’s likely we would not be going home anytime soon, I’d rather be 5/10 minutes late than having to make a phone call saying I’ll be late home or worse.

I would also argue last trains are the one time where you may give more than normal dwell (especially on Friday/Saturday nights) to factor in people being intoxicated/under the influence or just plain tired, and whilst I appreciate London and the surrounding area is different to my operating patch, the rules around dispatch are still very much the same and we all follow the same rule book with some TOCs going harder on some things.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I disagree, myself and the majority of others I speak too and work with simply don’t care enough about punctuality, safety comes first, and it isn’t us who would pick up the bill for the delay minutes. We may get a delay slip through asking for a reason but it’s plenty easy to put passengers slow to board/alight. At the end of the day, if we do have an incident, then it’s likely we would not be going home anytime soon, I’d rather be 5/10 minutes late than having to make a phone call saying I’ll be late home or worse.

I would also argue last trains are the one time where you may give more than normal dwell (especially on Friday/Saturday nights) to factor in people being intoxicated/under the influence or just plain tired, and whilst I appreciate London and the surrounding area is different to my operating patch, the rules around dispatch are still very much the same and we all follow the same rule book with some TOCs going harder on some things.

Whilst that is also quite correct, timing is still where reasonably possible(and yes not breaching safety) part of our duty to maintain. This is why often you'll get the please explain if its over a set number of threshold. Not caring enough about punctuality arguably leads to eventual issues too especially for trains behind on lines I drive where timings can be tight for example, causing more bunch up and more red signals for one example etc.

DFT have known in this example that the station has been a known hot-spot for issues more so before the incident. Several people have been falling in between the gap and luckily no train ever pulling away on them as has happened unfortunately on other networks with unfortunate results. The sighting issue was never properly understood when the waiting room was extended further to the edge of the platform which leads to passengers getting ever closer to that yellow line.

In other cases, other posters and I mentioned incidents where things and hands have been caught in 345 doors and the train still got interlock, whilst the buck stops with the driver, a last buffer in technology which was avaliable during procurement of these trains being anti drag seals(seen on 701s for example) could have stopped the train if not prevented it moving in several cases and that also applies to the sister train the 710 which is also a TFL unit without the system and notably also had a few traps and drags.

 

[bahnause]

I disagree, myself and the majority of others I speak too and work with simply don’t care enough about punctuality, safety comes first, and it isn’t us who would pick up the bill for the delay minutes. We may get a delay slip through asking for a reason but it’s plenty easy to put passengers slow to board/alight. At the end of the day, if we do have an incident, then it’s likely we would not be going home anytime soon, I’d rather be 5/10 minutes late than having to make a phone call saying I’ll be late home or worse.

I would also argue last trains are the one time where you may give more than normal dwell (especially on Friday/Saturday nights) to factor in people being intoxicated/under the influence or just plain tired, and whilst I appreciate London and the surrounding area is different to my operating patch, the rules around dispatch are still very much the same and we all follow the same rule book with some TOCs going harder on some things.

Punctuality is always an important consideration. Customers are entitled to expect it from the railways as a service provider. If the railways were unable to keep to the timetable on a regular basis in order to ensure safety, that would be a serious problem. Ultimately, the pressure falls on the staff. This isn’t a problem in isolated cases; the staff can handle it, but it must not become permanent.

I am glad that, since DOO was introduced in Switzerland 25 years ago, we have been able to rely fully on the interlocking system. Even back then, it was clear that neither human observation nor a camera system could confirm readiness for departure in complex and busy situations involving trains up to 400 metres long. This was the only way to realise the business case involving staff savings and reduced stopping times. However, adjustments had to be made both in the area of PTI and in the train protection systems to mitigate for risks introduced with DOO. That is why it is not possible to make a direct comparison between systems in different countries.

 

[BrianW]

Punctuality is always an important consideration. Customers are entitled to expect it from the railways as a service provider. If the railways were unable to keep to the timetable on a regular basis in order to ensure safety, that would be a serious problem. Ultimately, the pressure falls on the staff. This isn’t a problem in isolated cases; the staff can handle it, but it must not become permanent.

I am glad that, since DOO was introduced in Switzerland 25 years ago, we have been able to rely fully on the interlocking system. Even back then, it was clear that neither human observation nor a camera system could confirm readiness for departure in complex and busy situations involving trains up to 400 metres long. This was the only way to realise the business case involving staff savings and reduced stopping times. However, adjustments had to be made both in the area of PTI and in the train protection systems to mitigate for risks introduced with DOO. That is why it is not possible to make a direct comparison between systems in different countries.

I am pleased to see this thread attracting contributions from folk 'at the sharp end', real 'interested parties' not like me not much more than a crayonista rail enthusiast who is 'interested'.
I had to look up PTI, to find it's Platform Train Interface, and the first website it took me to is this, Undated: https://www.rssb.co.uk/about-rssb/key-industry-topics/platform-train-interface
Is this current? Does the RSSB (Rail Safety Standards Board) still exist?
Considering the possibility of 'level boarding' at Old Oak Common GWR platforms, similar issues arise on a related thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/old-oak-common-level-boarding-for-elizabeth-line-trains.297832/
Bearing in mind that the Rail Accident Investigation Board must surely be aware of boarding-related 'issues' at Ealing Broadway is it not 'surprising' that more weight was not given to this aspect.
The RSSB website cites PTI as being the most significant factor in fatalities.
Sadly, the RAIB report does indicate 'issues' regarding the driver's record. and surely this too could have been a contributory factor to their wish to make progress and closing the doors while passengers were stil alighting as well as seeking to join what was the last train.
The RSSB gives (gave?) a lot of attention, rightly, to the PTI and issues of behaviour, control, etc. Was this just so much 'hot air'?
At Ickenham a man DID die: https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/rep...cident-at-ickenham-london-underground-station
This MUST be a matter worthy of greater attentiom at the highest levels, including in parliament and government; I look forward to hearing ... while not holding my breath.

 

[bahnause]

The RSSB gives (gave?) a lot of attention, rightly, to the PTI and issues of behaviour, control, etc. Was this just so much 'hot air'?
At Ickenham a man DID die: https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/rep...cident-at-ickenham-london-underground-station
This MUST be a matter worthy of greater attentiom at the highest levels, including in parliament and government; I look forward to hearing ... while not holding my breath.

If I understand correctly, while the RSSB does issue safety recommendations, it conducts little to no cost-benefit analysis—or only a rudimentary one.

Given the current level of railway safety relative to transport volume, there are hardly any remaining opportunities to increase safety without incurring high costs—whether financial or otherwise. This potential has long since been exhausted.

An honest analysis could well conclude, that too much is already being invested in safety today.

 

[ModernRailways]

Whilst that is also quite correct, timing is still where reasonably possible(and yes not breaching safety) part of our duty to maintain. This is why often you'll get the please explain if its over a set number of threshold. Not caring enough about punctuality arguably leads to eventual issues too especially for trains behind on lines I drive where timings can be tight for example, causing more bunch up and more red signals for one example etc.

Punctuality is always an important consideration. Customers are entitled to expect it from the railways as a service provider. If the railways were unable to keep to the timetable on a regular basis in order to ensure safety, that would be a serious problem. Ultimately, the pressure falls on the staff. This isn’t a problem in isolated cases; the staff can handle it, but it must not become permanent.

It must be stressed, I did not say we don’t follow punctuality, nor that we don’t aim to follow it but that if we do become delayed due to passenger behaviour that it is something whereby punctuality simply goes out of the window and safety takes over. Of course, other TOCs are different but at mine it is very much taught into us that we do things safely, punctuality is important but safety is of course more important.
There are methods to hustle people along, but in a lot of cases, especially with DOO and long trains these aren’t adequate unless you have platform staff who can aid dispatch. I also imagine the majority of staff, whether it be a guard or driver, have closed doors on people joining/alighting a train simply because the PTI appeared clear, close buttons pressed then suddenly there’s someone there again.
I think it is worth noting, that whilst we allow follow the same rule book, different areas of the country definitely have different interpretations and different standards. It is possible that this is a factor, a metro style operation, which is much more intensive and ‘keep the wheels moving’ will have more pressure on a right time railway, whereas my patch, an additional 20-30 seconds at a station will be made back up or won’t really impact our schedule, on some lines that 30 seconds delay will have an impact with other trains having to slow/receive cautionary aspects.

I had to look up PTI, to find it's Platform Train Interface, and the first website it took me to is this, Undated: https://www.rssb.co.uk/about-rssb/key-industry-topics/platform-train-interface
Is this current? Does the RSSB (Rail Safety Standards Board) still exist?

RSSB is still very much in existence and there’s usually something from them in our quarterly briefs about an incident and what we can learn from it. The PTI is a particularly hot subject because it is one of the biggest interactions between people and trains and if something goes wrong can lead to death, and the person responsible for the doors can see a prison sentence, see James Street - I am unsure if the footage of the incident is public but there are plenty of articles both in the usual press and the railway press about what happened, this gives some additional insight into why the PTI is so dangerous and is such a hot topic.

 

[NSEWonderer]

It must be stressed, I did not say we don’t follow punctuality, nor that we don’t aim to follow it but that if we do become delayed due to passenger behaviour that it is something whereby punctuality simply goes out of the window and safety takes over. Of course, other TOCs are different but at mine it is very much taught into us that we do things safely, punctuality is important but safety is of course more important.
There are methods to hustle people along, but in a lot of cases, especially with DOO and long trains these aren’t adequate unless you have platform staff who can aid dispatch. I also imagine the majority of staff, whether it be a guard or driver, have closed doors on people joining/alighting a train simply because the PTI appeared clear, close buttons pressed then suddenly there’s someone there again.
I think it is worth noting, that whilst we allow follow the same rule book, different areas of the country definitely have different interpretations and different standards. It is possible that this is a factor, a metro style operation, which is much more intensive and ‘keep the wheels moving’ will have more pressure on a right time railway, whereas my patch, an additional 20-30 seconds at a station will be made back up or won’t really impact our schedule, on some lines that 30 seconds delay will have an impact with other trains having to slow/receive cautionary aspects.

Ah fair enough

 

[35B]

I am pleased to see this thread attracting contributions from folk 'at the sharp end', real 'interested parties' not like me not much more than a crayonista rail enthusiast who is 'interested'.
I had to look up PTI, to find it's Platform Train Interface, and the first website it took me to is this, Undated: https://www.rssb.co.uk/about-rssb/key-industry-topics/platform-train-interface
Is this current? Does the RSSB (Rail Safety Standards Board) still exist?
Considering the possibility of 'level boarding' at Old Oak Common GWR platforms, similar issues arise on a related thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/old-oak-common-level-boarding-for-elizabeth-line-trains.297832/
Bearing in mind that the Rail Accident Investigation Board must surely be aware of boarding-related 'issues' at Ealing Broadway is it not 'surprising' that more weight was not given to this aspect.
The RSSB website cites PTI as being the most significant factor in fatalities.
Sadly, the RAIB report does indicate 'issues' regarding the driver's record. and surely this too could have been a contributory factor to their wish to make progress and closing the doors while passengers were stil alighting as well as seeking to join what was the last train.
The RSSB gives (gave?) a lot of attention, rightly, to the PTI and issues of behaviour, control, etc. Was this just so much 'hot air'?
At Ickenham a man DID die: https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/rep...cident-at-ickenham-london-underground-station
This MUST be a matter worthy of greater attentiom at the highest levels, including in parliament and government; I look forward to hearing ... while not holding my breath.

Someone did die at Ickenham. Alcohol was involved, there were no staff or passengers on the platform, and it was dark. We will never quite know what happened, or why, but the options to prevent a repeat are limited.

At Ealing, Lady Luck was present and no serious harm was done. But the largest single factor in the incident was a new building, built after the EL opened, and which made safe despatch much harder than it needed to be.

We don’t particularly need new processes or expenditures, but to have those in existing roles actually thinking about the impact of their decisions. Although it may possibly need the standards for stations tweaking to ensure clear sight lines

 

[chiltern trev]

All I can think is that passengers have learned that many Underground train doors have a 'sensitive edge' response to putting their hand in the closing doors, the doors would reopen, and they expect the same from the 'Elizabeth Line'. (I think it's also a large reason why the platform/train interface issue is such a big deal when it would be fairly unremarkable elsewhere). I've never seen anyone try stop a train departing by putting their hand in a closing door away from LU territory, not putting your hand in a closing door in something usually ingrained from childhood; it'll hurt. The odd bag or brolly, but not a body part.

In respect of doors reopening if you put your hand (or other item in the way), the 777s have vertical LED coloured strips in the door way that light up green or red or amber.

I was in a car park lift in Calisle this week, and the lift has the same LED strips - if you put a hand, or other item in the doors, whilst closing, the door re-open.

So why should you not expect a train door to be different, particularly if the doors close due the 'no person using' timer and the doors will re-open if you put a hand in , why should not a passenger expect the same result every time, i.e. doors re-open?

 

[Horizon22]

So why should you not expect a train door to be different, particularly if the doors close due the 'no person using' timer and the doors will re-open if you put a hand in , why should not a passenger expect the same result every time, i.e. doors re-open?

This is routinely a common problem; people expect train doors to act the same as lift doors yet they don’t and have never been designed to do to the same tolerances.

But people are more familiar with the latter and transfer their expectations to the railway.

 

[Bikeman78]

In respect of doors reopening if you put your hand (or other item in the way), the 777s have vertical LED coloured strips in the door way that light up green or red or amber.

I was in a car park lift in Calisle this week, and the lift has the same LED strips - if you put a hand, or other item in the doors, whilst closing, the door re-open.

So why should you not expect a train door to be different, particularly if the doors close due the 'no person using' timer and the doors will re-open if you put a hand in , why should not a passenger expect the same result every time, i.e. doors re-open?

I've mentioned this before. The doors closing after a few seconds seemed like a good idea at first.

However, the hustle alarms have got louder and I've seen many people run for trains two or three minutes before departure. I'd rather go back the the previous situation where the doors remain open until departure unless someone presses the close button.

Until 25 years ago, the sound of the hustle alarm meant the train is about to depart. Now it means the door are closing but you can open them again or the doors are closing but you can't open them again. There is no way to tell the difference.