Merseyrail 777 introduction

[Bevan Price]

I think we probably know the answer to that...

The design brief was likely 'put the same number of vestibules in the 4-car 777 as the 3 car 507/508 had'. If they put an extra vestibule in the end cars, it would further reduce the seating capacity. The T&W 555s are full of doors, but they have mostly longitudinal metro-style seating and are configured for large numbers of standees instead (which there have been complaints about, compared to the bus-style seating of the Metrocars).

To me, the best trains on what is now the Merseyrail electric network were the Classes 502 and 503. Seats aligned with windows, mostly 5 coach formation 502s on Southport & Ormskirk lines (until some 503s started to appear), and in earlier years, almost always 6 coach formations on Wirral - And absolutely no announcements.....

 

[507 001]

I was called a nay sayer for pointing out a lot of these issues when the 777 fleet was first announced.

I’m glad it seems that I have been proved right. They’re truly awful things.

 

[Polarbear]

On 777039 earlier, in service with one of the end doors out of service. Not a big issue when it’s quiet, but likely to impact dwell times when busier.

Also travelled on a service yesterday morning where the display above the doors was giving arrival times 30 minutes later than the booked times for the full route.

 

[MR-507508]

Appears to be some changes, to the 'usual' amended timetable for the 3 day Aintree race meeting (9th - 11th April).

The Ormskirk line will as usual run between Ormskirk to Liverpool Central. However, an extra diagram is being added, 6 as opposed to the usual 5.​

The Chester line will also gain an extra diagram, requiring the use of 7 units (during the day and early evening).​

Both changes must have been made to improve reliability during the busy 3 day period for the network.

Assuming all the 6 x Ormskirk diagrams are 8 Cars (which I think needs to be a given), 3 x Aintree shuttle services are 8 cars (again most likely), I get this to require 49 units which need to be operating across the network. There is also an indication at least one (possibly 2 x 8 cars) may be planned to operate on the Southport to Hunts Cross route. All dependent on availability of units.
I seem to recall last year, at one point there were 50 / 53 units in operation, could this be exceeded this year? Will 777004 make its long awaited return to service, it sure could do with being available for service.

As usual, the Southport line will be extended to Hunts Cross across the 3 days.

​

As a result of these changes, the Headbolt Lane line will be down to a 30 minute service frequency across the 3 days. I assume due to the extra units required, on the Ormskirk and Chester line, and additional train crew requirements. Expect to see a few 777/1s operating on the Southport - Hunts Cross route.​

 

[FrontSideBus]

I was called a nay sayer for pointing out a lot of these issues when the 777 fleet was first announced.

I’m glad it seems that I have been proved right. They’re truly awful things.

Agreed.

 

[Lloyds siding]

Is it normal for the exterior displays on services to/from Chester to show Chester as a destination even when the sets are heading towards Liverpool? I was on 777022 on Saturday and while the interior displays were all working perfectly the exterior signs seemingly were stuck on Chester.

Unfortunately due to late running this set was terminated at Rock Ferry on its way out of Liverpool.

My Liverpool train was showing Chester on the exterior displays when it arrived at Bebington this afternoon, correct display on interior panels.

 

[Tony2]

Here are examples of both Liverpool Central and Chester displays. RTT shows the workings as Chester- Chester circular hence the Chester destination?

 

[jamesst]

Here are examples of both Liverpool Central and Chester displays. RTT shows the workings as Chester- Chester circular hence the Chester destination?

View attachment 199548

View attachment 199546

Theres an option to force the destination on the outside only, looks like this has been done and not cancelled

 

[Liverpool 507]

Based on the planned introduction and assumed good reliability of these trains, what was the original proposed number of units in traffic out of 53 each day?

 

[MR-507508]

Based on the planned introduction and assumed good reliability of these trains, what was the original proposed number of units in traffic out of 53 each day?

47 units out during the peaks. Tuesday, 48 units were reported as working to support the Everton home game in the evening. Currently, 42 units are planned to be out Monday to Friday.

 

[RMTGuard]

Based on the planned introduction and assumed good reliability of these trains, what was the original proposed number of units in traffic out of 53 each day?

48

 

[chiltern trev]

To me, the best trains on what is now the Merseyrail electric network were the Classes 502 and 503. Seats aligned with windows, mostly 5 coach formation 502s on Southport & Ormskirk lines (until some 503s started to appear), and in earlier years, almost always 6 coach formations on Wirral - And absolutely no announcements.....

I remember Soutports as being 6 coach as standard

 

[FrontSideBus]

The 6 coach formations on the Wirral line was awesome when I used to commute that way. I used to get right at the front of the first coach and when it stopped at Liverpool Lime St, it was right next to the passageway leading to the lift. If said lift was already at the bottom, that extra time saved would mean I could catch the earlier train out and be home half an hour earlier!

 

[Lloyds siding]

I remember Soutports as being 6 coach as standard

No, outside the peak services, most day-time services were 5 car, sometimes 3 car.

 

[Class15]

No, outside the peak services, most day-time services were 5 car, sometimes 3 car.

Out of interest how were they 5 car?

Edit: my bad, thought this was about the 507/8s!

 

[MR-507508]

Can an 8 car 777 stable in the wall siding at Southport station?
I seem to recall in the earlier days of the 777s seeing one stable there but these days it is not very common, with only a 4 car unit using the wall siding to stable.
I presume an 8 car can still fit after the works which took place on the siding a few years back?

 

[jamesst]

Can an 8 car 777 stable in the wall siding at Southport station?
I seem to recall in the earlier days of the 777s seeing one stable there but these days it is not very common, with only a 4 car unit using the wall siding to stable.
I presume an 8 car can still fit after the works which took place on the siding a few years back?

Yes it can

 

[baldyman26]

Sadly Merseyrail probably didn't have any input into these trains. This has been a monumental cock up but certain egos now means we have our cake and have to eat it.

 

[Pacef8]

Their was a wooden model carriage demo that was consulted and demoed on both sides of the river . How the wonky different flooring got through i don't know.

 

[FrontSideBus]

You still see people stumble as they hit the ramp!

 

[GaryNeville]

I was called a nay sayer for pointing out a lot of these issues when the 777 fleet was first announced.

I’m glad it seems that I have been proved right. They’re truly awful things.

I really don’t mind travelling on them. Although I do find that I try for one of the middle coaches with double doors in!

 

[baldyman26]

Don't forget paid for.. by you! I've requested my share be refunded

 

[40029 Saxonia]

Accordingly to RTT, 777047 is in service on the Southport line today

 

[Pacef8]

I went to look at the wood carriage and said pretty much the same . You want me to put my carbon front wheel on that peg ! Not a chance . I now head for the disabled area where i can sit with the bike.

 

[chiltern trev]

No, outside the peak services, most day-time services were 5 car, sometimes 3 car.

No. I don't remember ever travelling on a 5 car class 502 on Southport line in 50s and 60s before Sunday's got downgraded to 3 cars.

 

[Polarbear]

I take it 777004 is still being put back together again?

 

[Lloyds siding]

Chiltern trev: here's one pictured on Facebook Facebook page:'Glory Days of Electrics' and some in here YouTube video Class 502 Preservation

 

[chiltern trev]

Chiltern trev: here's one pictured on Facebook Facebook page:'Glory Days of Electrics' and some in here YouTube video Class 502 Preservation

One of the comments (not mine) on the Facebook post says

if it was a Southport working, it was very rare. The Southports were normally 2x 3-car sets - as I recall, the Ormskirks were limited to 5 cars due to some station platform lengths.

a last minute change due to a failure perhaps

that's a definite possibility. Perhaps that's why the photographer felt it worthy of a shot?

So 5 cars to Southport were not not usual. However if a visit to Meols Cop was required, then a 5 car would run via Southport. And the other week, I was reviewing photos in The Cumbrian Railways Association photos collection and there is a 5 car showing Meols Cop in platform 10 at Chapel Street - which would be interesting if it actually went into Meols Cop station as 2 cars would be off the 3rd rail as the 3rd rail at Meols Cop was only long enough for a 3 car train - I assumed the 5 car was thus depot bound.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ormskirk's EMU bay was only 5 car. A 6 would need to block one of the main platforms.

 

[karlbbb]

I've noticed the timetables on the train screens are also wrong, or at least they differ from the booked times showing on RTT and station PIS.

I'm on 2O40 and screen times are showing 2 minutes ahead of the booked time. This is having the effect of the train thinking it's late and marking the times in red text instead of white.