Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[swr444]

Trying to work this out: Have we now reached a point where sufficient amounts of trained drivers are the limiting factor with regards to further diagram introduction, rather than available units?

It's not as acute a problem as before though, as all units planned to be off leased are now off leased (not sure of the timescale for releasing the 458/4s)

Not really, 701 diagramming restrictions have been lifted from all depots now, so a sufficient amount of drivers and guards have been trained

 

[Peter Sarf]

Not really, 701 diagramming restrictions have been lifted from all depots now, so sufficient drivers and guards have been trained

That clears that up then.

 

[Stephen42]

A key question - how many services do SWR have the staff to operate and how many are they recruiting to fill the gap? (a slightly different question to #units as lots of current 8car 450 would get replaced by 10car 701 and the 450s would go to lengthen long distance 450 services and potential reinstate some too).

The general feeling year ago (and before) in the First group controlled era was that SWR had a significant staffing gap to be able to use all the 701s, has this changed under more direct DfT control?

No hard numbers, but the South Western Railway under public ownership planned improvements had this paragraph:

Recruiting more drivers to improve reliability and reduce cancellations, with an increase in the numbers of drivers in active service each year, and increase the number of new drivers in training by 50%.

With crew related cancellations during holiday periods would suggest SWR are still in a relatively poor position to significantly increase services.

If you zoom in and click on stations like New Malden on the Tim Jupp map that came out after the station usage figures late 2025, it is fairly obvious the passenger numbers growth path is much steeper than some stations on Cobham line.
The figures are now a year out of date so may well have climbed above the pre pandemic usage levels assuming recent trend has continued.

leaflet

It does appear 701s have been introduced quickest for operational conveinience, (leave training at depots like Guildford and Woking to near end), rather than targeting routes with passenger numbers regrowing fastest.

The 701 rollout involves training over 1,000 staff. Any major rollout will always be a mix between operational needs, passenger experience and cost effectiveness. Around 60% of diagrams last week were 701s yet arrivals at Waterloo 7:45am to 8:45am were 80% 701s which won't have been by accident or operationally convenient to arrange. Looking at the New Malden example is nearly all 701s, the routes mentioned pass through but don't stop at that station.

 

[InOban]

I believe most TOCs have a large number of drivers approaching retirement and training of new recruits has to replace these as well as eliminating the excessive dependency on overtime and RDW.

 

[Bald Rick]

The general feeling year ago (and before) in the First group controlled era was that SWR had a significant staffing gap to be able to use all the 701s, has this changed under more direct DfT control?

Yes, lots, as with almost all TOCs.

 

[MontyP]

From my observations, trains towards Epsom, and trains which stop at New Malden are rammed in the peaks. The Woking and Guildford via Cobham trains are less busy.

I agree, as a regular passenger front Raynes Park I avoid those services wherever possible. Best chance of space is on the Chessingtons. I wonder whether this will change with the continuing huge residential developments around Tolworth? And also a good argument for reinstatement of the remaining Epsom services, and potentially extras to New Malden (onwards to Hampton Court?) Slightly off topic so apologies!

 

[Nogoohwell]

As i remember it, SWT stopped recruitment prior to the operating contract decision. So SWR already had a deficit when they started a year later.
DofT then stopped all recruitment during COVID.
Treasury were keen to milk SWR and keep numbers down, they then spent months delaying driver training as they wanted a 8 day course to reduce costs. Of course that delay has probably cost hundreds of times more as the 701’s have sat around wasting away and needing extensive work to pit into service.
All in, no private company would operate this way as more services equals money. Just hope GBR is ran independently.

 

[class701]

Am I the only one who thinks it very strange that experienced train drivers cannot or will not, without additional training drive a new 701/5 ? The 700 series have been in service for over a decade and I am sure they have similar coupling/decoupling system which does it all for you. It's not as if they need to go trackside and manually detach them anymore. For it to take another six to twelve months to get the extra 30 units into passenger service is beyond satire now.

 

[swr444]

Am I the only one who thinks it very strange that experienced train drivers cannot or will not, without additional training drive a new 701/5 ? The 700 series have been in service for over a decade and I am sure they have similar coupling/decoupling system which does it all for you. It's not as if they need to go trackside and manually detach them anymore. For it to take another six to twelve months to get the extra 30 units into passenger service is beyond satire now.

It’ll take that long regardless as the /5s are a full of issues

 

[NSEWonderer]

Am I the only one who thinks it very strange that experienced train drivers cannot or will not, without additional training drive a new 701/5 ? The 700 series have been in service for over a decade and I am sure they have similar coupling/decoupling system which does it all for you. It's not as if they need to go trackside and manually detach them anymore. For it to take another six to twelve months to get the extra 30 units into passenger service is beyond satire now.

Thats the exact thinking that led to two 737 maxes crashing some years ago because the pilots and airlines were lead to believe the newer model of the same plane that had been sold for several decades was still the same, it actually had a new system that pilots hadn't been trained to turn off if it went haywire(assuming they even knew it existed).

Back on topic, the 701/5 and 701/0 whilst similar have difference, three at least significant enough to know. 5cars have an extra compressor and all that goes with dealing with that, coupling and uncoupling and the faults that may occur with that aka if they choose not to talk to each other or half the set is powered, other isnt.

In a single 5 car, the 5 car monitors if failed on one screen, driver must know how to switch that over to the next screen(you don't do this on a 701/0 as it used both screens for the 10 cars).

Also most drivers would have only coupled and uncoupled a 701 months if not a year or more by the time 701/5s come so it will need refreshing especially the rescue part of things again.

Doubt it takes more than a 2-3 day course.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Am I the only one who thinks it very strange that experienced train drivers cannot or will not, without additional training drive a new 701/5 ? The 700 series have been in service for over a decade and I am sure they have similar coupling/decoupling system which does it all for you. It's not as if they need to go trackside and manually detach them anymore. For it to take another six to twelve months to get the extra 30 units into passenger service is beyond satire now.

The coupling and uncoupling of 701/5s (5car) is something that almost all drivers will never do on a 701/0 (10car).

Your comparison with 700s does not work because 700s never run in pairs. Only for rescue purposes.

Coupling units is quite involved. I recently watched a driver on his first day coupling two 730s (another type of Aventra !). He was checking every step with a nearby more experienced staff member. I must say I was surprised that the coupling process is quite so involved. Teaching unit coupling/uncoupling as part of the 701/0 course would have been pointless as many drivers would need a refresher after 12+ months of never doing it - I would.

 

[JCO1406]

Do we know if another diagram will be switched over next week?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Anyone know whats going on near Queenstown today? 701001, working a Kingston Rounder, (1357 ex Waterloo 2k35) has been standing there for about two hours. Just overtaken it on the 1527 (2k41) itself running 30 minutes late.

 

[swr444]

Anyone know whats going on near Queenstown today? 701001, working a Kingston Rounder, (1357 ex Waterloo) has been standing there for about two hours. Just overtaken it on the 1527, itself running 30 minutes late.

A Network Rail white bag got tangled up in the shoegear on coach 1...

 

[nctd2306]

A Network Rail white bag got tangled up in the shoegear on coach 1...

A similar thing happened to 458410 a few weeks ago at Hounslow, the unit still hasn't returned to service...

Makes you wonder why there are empty bags just left around the place to be blown around. It surely can be that hard to put them in the back of a lorry and store them somewhere a bit more secure

 

[WWTownEnth]

Are we likely to get a new 701 diagram next week?

 

[NSEWonderer]

A Network Rail white bag got tangled up in the shoegear on coach 1...

Yep ballast bag got tangled up on the shoegear, I believe Up main slow was closed briefly to facilitate this, with trains not calling at Vauxhall, Clapham and Earlsfied on the down. A very late Woking i believe 15:20 from Waterloo, terminated short at Surbiton, turned around i assume via some shunt and then collected hordes of passengers on its way back to Waterloo as the snipped Woking return.

Inevitable with the amount of wind, random hails etc today.

 

[43096]

Yep ballast bag got tangled up on the shoegear, I believe Up main slow was closed briefly to facilitate this, with trains not calling at Vauxhall, Clapham and Earlsfied on the down. A very late Woking i believe 15:20 from Waterloo, terminated short at Surbiton, turned around i assume via some shunt and then collected hordes of passengers on its way back to Waterloo as the snipped Woking return.

Inevitable with the amount of wind, random hails etc today.

It’s only inevitable if materials are not properly secured or removed. From the above, it’s not the first time in recent weeks in the same area. Once is unfortunate, twice is…

 

[norbitonflyer]

I was on 2H40 (an up Shepp) which passed the site at about 1430 and was routed intom platfoprm 19 at Waterloo, presumably as it was to return to Shepperton via Richmond istead of via Wimbledon as booked. Later on I was on 2K41 (a rounder) which passed the area at about 1600 (after departing Waterloo half an hour late) on the down fast, but came to a stand alongside the stricken 701001 (2K35). Couldn't see anything wrong with it at that time. RTT showed it eventually reached Clapham Junction and terminated at 1612. 127 minutes late. Doubtless its passengers were grateful that 701s have toilets!

RTT shows it was back in service by 1730

 

[Bigfoot]

With crew related cancellations during holiday periods would suggest SWR are still in a relatively poor position to significantly increase services.

Driver training takes years from announcing a policy to begin training to those drivers being usefully productive. As stagecoach swt found out in the 2000s they take much longer than a bus driver does!

Am I the only one who thinks it very strange that experienced train drivers cannot or will not, without additional training drive a new 701/5 ? The 700 series have been in service for over a decade and I am sure they have similar coupling/decoupling system which does it all for you. It's not as if they need to go trackside and manually detach them anymore. For it to take another six to twelve months to get the extra 30 units into passenger service is beyond satire now.

The 700s are a very different train. I mean so different they are made by a different manufacturer. Chalk and cheese being compared here.

 

[WWTownEnth]

I’m guessing no new 701 diagram next week but could someone better placed confirm please?

 

[Covshire1]

701045 allocated to 5Q20, 5Q21, 5Q22 today.

 

[TEW]

I’m guessing no new 701 diagram next week but could someone better placed confirm please?

Still 39 diagrams next week, but at least one is a bit different to this week.

 

[mansonlo49]

701001 - In Passenger Service (2 Mar 26)
701002 - Training duties
701003 - Derby Litchurch Lane - Awaiting Redelivery To SWR
701004 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701005 - In Passenger Service (27 Aug 25)
701006 - In Passenger Service (6 Mar 26)
701007 - In Passenger Service (24 Feb 26)
701008 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701009 - In Passenger Service (17 Oct 25)
701010 - In Passenger Service (22 Dec 25)
701011 - In Passenger Service (26 Feb 26)
701012 - In Passenger Service (21 Jul 25)
701013 - In Passenger Service (28 Jul 25)
701014 - Stored at Eastleigh
701015 - Training duties
701016 - Stored at Eastleigh
701017 - In Passenger Service (25 Nov 24)
701018 - In Passenger Service (6 Jul 25)
701019 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701020 - In Passenger Service (8 Oct 25)
701021 - In Passenger Service (15 Sep 25)
701022 - In Passenger Service (9 Feb 26)
701023 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701024 - Training duties
701025 - In Passenger Service (24 Jun 25)
701026 - In Passenger Service (3 Nov 25)
701027 - Stored at Eastleigh
701028 - Training duties
701029 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701030 - In Passenger Service (9 Dec 25)
701031 - In Passenger Service (28 Oct 24)
701032 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701033 - In Passenger Service (26 Nov 25)
701034 - In Passenger Service (18 Mar 25)
701035 - In Passenger Service (28 May 25)
701036 - In Passenger Service (7 Mar 25)
701037 - In Passenger Service (9 Jan 24)
701038 - In Passenger Service (5 Feb 26)
701039 - In Passenger Service (10 Jan 24)
701040 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701041 - In Passenger Service (17 Jun 25)
701042 - In Passenger Service (21 May 25)
701043 - In Passenger Service (16 Jan 24)
701044 - In Passenger Service (5 Feb 25)
701045 - In Passenger Service (27 Mar 26)
701046 - In Passenger Service (17 Mar 25)
701047 - In Passenger Service (31 Dec 25)
701048 - In Passenger Service (8 Nov 25j
701049 - In Passenger Service (20 Mar 26)
701050 - In Passenger Service (17 Nov 25)
701051 - In Passenger Service (14 Jul 25)
701052 - In Passenger Service (23 Dec 25)
701053 - In Passenger Service (26 Aug 25)
701054 - In Passenger Service (3 Jan 26)
701055 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701056 - In Passenger Service (8 Sep 25)
701057 - In Passenger Service (13 Aug 25)
701058 - In Passenger Service (11 Aug 25)
701059 - In Passenger Service (5 Dec 25)
701060 - In Passenger Service (1 Nov 25)

In Passenger Service: 44/60
Training duties: 4/60 (028 briefly served passengers before training duties)
SWR preparing for passenger service: 8/60
Stored at Eastleigh: 3/60
Stored at Derby Litchurch Lane: 1/60


701501 - Stored at Derby Litchurch Lane
701502 - Stored at Derby Litchurch Lane
701503 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701504 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701505 - Stored at Bicester
701506 - Stored at Bicester
701507 - Stored at Bicester
701508 - Stored at Derby Litchurch Lane
701509 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701510 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701511 - Stored at Bicester
701512 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701513 - Stored at Bicester
701514 - Stored at Bicester
701515 - Stored at Bicester
701516 - Stored at Bicester
701517 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701518 - Stored at Bicester
701519 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701520 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701521 - Stored at Bicester
701522 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701523 - Stored at Bicester
701524 - Stored at Derby Litchurch Lane
701525 - Stored at Bicester
701526 - Stored at Bicester
701527 - Stored at Bicester
701528 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701529 - SWR preparing for passenger service
701530 - Stored at Bicester

In Passenger Service: 0/30
SWR preparing for passenger service: 11/30
Stored at Derby Litchurch Lane: 4/30
Stored at Bicester 15/30

Is 701045 already in service please?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Is 701045 already in service please?

I didn't think so. The updated list in post 1 suggests it entered service on Thursday (26th), but it was on a 5Qxx working yesterday (Friday) See post 16792 above

 

[mansonlo49]

I didn't think so. The updated list in post 1 suggests it entered service on Thursday (26th), but it was on a 5Qxx working yesterday (Friday) See post 16792 above

Would be impossible to put it in service so soon, just came out from storage at Long Marston recently

 

[317 forever]

41 in service today - a new record. (the prevopous record was set last Monday, at 39) 053 and 058 the only absentees

With the 455s all now withdrawn, I doubt SWR can afford more than negligible numbers not to be available for service.

 

[Peter Sarf]

With the 455s all now withdrawn, I doubt SWR can afford more than negligible numbers not to be available for service.

It seems to be more of a problem with the 458/4s of late !.
Which is progress on the right fleet to be fair.

 

[Invincible]

Joe Wilkinson boards new Channel 4 and Rail Delivery Group series: Train-ing It with Joe Wilkinson | Banijay

Channel 4 today announces Train‑ing It with Joe Wilkinson, a new digital entertainment series created in partnership with Rail Delivery Group, the membership organisation that represents Britain’s train operators. Fronted by comedian, actor and screenwriter Joe Wilkinson, the branded...

www.banijay.com

Comedian Joe Wilkinson and actor Micheal Sheen being filmed having a good chat on a 701 from Waterloo to Kingston.
Both are train enthusiasts
Why use an expensive studio when a 701 is available.

 

[WWTownEnth]

I didn't think so. The updated list in post 1 suggests it entered service on Thursday (26th), but it was on a 5Qxx working yesterday (Friday) See post 16792 above

It was an error on my part, now corrected. Apologies.