UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[bangor-toad]

Mr Toad, I'm sure you're aware but many suppliers provide an overnight tariff, not just for the EV but the whole house. I pay 7p KW/h

And with thanks to Bald Rick and NIT100

Yes, I'm based in Northern Ireland so the domestic energy cap doesn't apply. NI is part of the All-Ireland electricity grid and there's a load of complex cross border legislation.
The upshot of it is that a) it's more expensive and b) there are none of the clever time dependant mechanisms available in the rest of the UK.

My options with PowerNI are:
Standard rate. 30.22p per KwH. No standing charge.
Economy 7. 35.17p per KwH (Day), 16.81p per KwH (1am to 8am) and 12p per day standing charge

Having worked it out, my daytime electrical requirements mean the Economy 7 tariff is more expensive.

Sadly, none of the suppliers like Octopus operate in NI. There are a few competitors to PowerNI but they all have pretty much the same prices. There are no smart or dynamic tariffs available - it's standard rate or Economy 7 regardless of who you contract with.
But even with this as the backdrop I am happy that we have one EV in the household. I can't do everything we need so I keep the old diesel estate but the EV does the shorter trips very well.

Cheers,
Mr Toad

 

[gazthomas]

Ah, that's annoying Mr Toad!

I live in North Wales and we have the highest standing charges in GB.

 

[cactustwirly]

With that logic, why not just get a load of super-cheap resistive electric heaters then? You can get a 2-3kW heater for about a tenner if you buy in the summer and shop around...

That's just ridiculous
Gas is 1/4 of the price of electricity so a lot cheaper even if it isn't as efficient

Heat pumps are £20,000 for an installation so very long payback period.
Or if it is bodged like a lot of installations, then they cost loads to run.

A Gas boiler is significantly cheaper and definitely cheaper to run than a heat pump

 

[Harpers Tate]

Yes, electric heaters are 100% efficient* but electricity costs much more per unit energy than gas. Hence why heat pumps are economic - if electricity was cheaper they wouldn't be.

* Give or take a tiny amount for a buzzing sound, a slight glow on the element or the little indicator LED. 99.9something% I guess.

Perhaps important to note that an air-source heat pump is something around 300-400% efficient. Meaning that all other things equal they cost broadly the same to run as a gas boiler (given gas cost around 1/4 electricity cost per kWh). But there is that not insignificant capital outlay.

 

[Bletchleyite]

New thread for the heat pump digression: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/air-source-heat-pumps-vs-other-options.299865/

 

[The Ham]

One thing to consider for a charge away from home trip is that not all the miles you undertake will be from the public charges.

For example, if I were to drive 250 miles but return home with 20 miles of range, then only 130 miles would be from a public charger.

Even if the public charges were more costly per mile than petrol (which at least on the mainland UK they aren't), the average for the trip would still likely be lower.

 

[styles]

One thing to consider for a charge away from home trip is that not all the miles you undertake will be from the public charges.

For example, if I were to drive 250 miles but return home with 20 miles of range, then only 130 miles would be from a public charger.

Even if the public charges were more costly per mile than petrol (which at least on the mainland UK they aren't), the average for the trip would still likely be lower.

Also that at destinations, non-public charging may be available.

I stayed at an SYHA which I'll keep anonymous because I think the staff member was just doing us a favour outside of their policy, and they were more than happy for us to route a charger cable through a window to recharge our driver's EV. It was on the condition of bunging a small amount of cash into the charity collection tin.

Other times you'll be travelling to visit family and friends and can charge from their domestic supply.

 

[The Ham]

Also that at destinations, non-public charging may be available.

I stayed at an SYHA which I'll keep anonymous because I think the staff member was just doing us a favour outside of their policy, and they were more than happy for us to route a charger cable through a window to recharge our driver's EV. It was on the condition of bunging a small amount of cash into the charity collection tin.

Other times you'll be travelling to visit family and friends and can charge from their domestic supply.

I meant in my example that the total round trip was 250 miles, however the data in trios is based on an each way distance (so 125 miles each way).

Is worth being aware that the majority (70%) of trips within the UK are under 5 miles and typically of the 922 trips each person makes (across all nodes) just 6 are over 100 miles, that 125 mike each way trip is still going to be a fairly rare event for a lot of people.

Is also worth noting that of those 6.3 trips:
- 2.4 are as a driver of a car, travelling a total of 376 miles (so little more than one there and back a year)
- 2.2 are as a passenger of a car, travelling a total of 341 miles
- 1.4 is by rail, travelling a total of 233 miles
- the rest is by other modes, travelling a total of 87 miles*

That's on a total average person travelling a total of 6,082 miles a year (which includes all modes of travel, not just car and train).

* yes this is less than 100 miles, but that's because it's an average, so one person travelling by taxi 300 miles will only be 3 miles when spread across 100 other people who didn't make any taxi trips over 100 miles

As such, the number of cars doing trips of over 100 miles is fewer than the number of people travelling over 100 miles.

 

[styles]

I meant in my example that the total round trip was 250 miles, however the data in trios is based on an each way distance (so 125 miles each way).

Is worth being aware that the majority (70%) of trips within the UK are under 5 miles and typically of the 922 trips each person makes (across all nodes) just 6 are over 100 miles, that 125 mike each way trip is still going to be a fairly rare event for a lot of people.

Is also worth noting that of those 6.3 trips:
- 2.4 are as a driver of a car, travelling a total of 376 miles (so little more than one there and back a year)
- 2.2 are as a passenger of a car, travelling a total of 341 miles
- 1.4 is by rail, travelling a total of 233 miles
- the rest is by other modes, travelling a total of 87 miles*

That's on a total average person travelling a total of 6,082 miles a year (which includes all modes of travel, not just car and train).

* yes this is less than 100 miles, but that's because it's an average, so one person travelling by taxi 300 miles will only be 3 miles when spread across 100 other people who didn't make any taxi trips over 100 miles

As such, the number of cars doing trips of over 100 miles is fewer than the number of people travelling over 100 miles.

Oh yeah I agree with all that, just also was saying that given the single trip measure, it's worth pointing out that charging is often available at both ends of a round trip.

I do mainly make long journeys when I drive, but that's because I choose to walk, cycle, bus or train when I can. Getting to Glenbrittle from north Wales with 3 passengers and a load of winter mountaineering gear isn't something I'm going to do by public transport though. In that sense I think my range anxiety is justified, unless I splash out on a very expensive car. But I'm sure it'll only be a few years before the longest range EVs become more affordable.

 

[miami]

Yes, electric heaters are 100% efficient* but electricity costs much more per unit energy than gas. Hence why heat pumps are economic - if electricity was cheaper they wouldn't be.

I wonder how home battery storage and electric heaters - with overnight prices on an agile tariff and thus storing daytime electric use too - compare with a heatpump and fixed prices.

 

[Ediswan]

* Give or take a tiny amount for a buzzing sound, a slight glow on the element or the little indicator LED. 99.9something% I guess.

Unless the sound or light makes it outside the space you are seeking to warm up, even that ends up as useful heat.

Losses in the house wiring between the meter and the heater will be far greater (some of which also ends up where it is wanted).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Losses in the house wiring between the meter and the heater will be far greater (some of which also ends up where it is wanted).

Certainly - they're only 100% efficient (or as good as) at the direct point of use. Transmission losses between generation and use are significant, though probably less than the direct use of fossil fuels.

 

[jon0844]

Octopus is cutting Intelligent Octopus Go [2330-0530, or whenever demand is low on the grid] from 7p to 3.5p per kWh, so that means my car will cost around 0.7p per mile from April 1st! [For people connecting on the tariff now it will be around 5-5.5p]

Given petrol and diesel prices are rising all the time, I suspect a lot more people may be looking to switch soon because while electricity rates might rise again in July and return to nearer 7p again, who knows what petrol and diesel will cost by then!

 

[E27007]

UK car Industry seeking early review of ZEV mandate:
An article on AM100 website in the link below:

Compliance with the ZEV mandate comes is at a heavy price to the industry and ZEV manufacture and sale is not profitable due heavily discounting of £11,000 per car and the situation will worsen as the 2027 ZEV quota ramps up.
The industry is pressing for the bringing forward of the 2027 review of the ZEV mandate.

ZEV discounting averages £11,000 per unit

 

[The Ham]

UK car Industry seeking early review of ZEV mandate:
An article on AM100 website in the link below:

Compliance with the ZEV mandate comes is at a heavy price to the industry and ZEV manufacture and sale is not profitable due heavily discounting of £11,000 per car and the situation will worsen as the 2027 ZEV quota ramps up.
The industry is pressing for the bringing forward of the 2027 review of the ZEV mandate.

ZEV discounting averages £11,000 per unit

Sometimes the industry doesn't help itself though. We were refused a lease on a Ford Puma (EV) as we were told that they had more applications in a 2 week period than the whole of the previous year.

Also, as with everything, be careful what you wish for, as there could always be the risk that the review changes the requirements so that the mandate is harder to hit. For example, if the mandate is reduced in the early years the end point is still the same and so the ramping up might be steeper (and therefore potentially harder) in the latter years.

Although this does highlight the issue with some people's thoughts that they'll just buy an ICE vehicle in the year before the ban, as almost no one will be wanting to sell any if the EV target is (say) 97% of total sales.

Of course, if the industry were to be talking up EV's then they might not have the difficulty that they do.

 

[Harpo]

Octopus is cutting Intelligent Octopus Go [2330-0530, or whenever demand is low on the grid] from 7p to 3.5p per kWh,

If only EVs could do the job of household batteries too.

 

[jon0844]

If only EVs could do the job of household batteries too.

A few cars can, and more will. Vehicle to Grid (V2G) is something I think Tesla is bigging up with its pending lauunch, but Octopus launched a scheme last year (not sure how far developed it is yet). My car doesn't support it, but my next one will because I'll make sure to choose a model that does.

For now I'll be charging my car overnight as usual, topping up my battery and any excess power in the daytime can be exported for 12p on a standard tariff, or 25p or more on something like Agile Octopus (between 4pm to 7pm). Add on £1 per kWh if there's a need for more power in an area, and we're really starting to be able to maintain the grid without firing up gas powered power plants. Many more people are going to be able to get £0 electricity bills, and some will even make a profit - even with less solar generation in the winter.

We're not there yet, but we're on the right path. Compared to, say, the USA that's turning its back on anything like this and just expecting coal and gas to cover all demand.

I believe plug-in-solar will soon be launched in the UK. Whoever is set up to sell 1 or 2 panels, a home battery or inverter (depending on what people want) could make an absolute killing. This allows almost everyone to get into the world of solar, even if living in a flat. Back gardens can now have a couple of panels generating 800W per hour to eradicate base loads and also take a dent out of electricity bills.

 

[N1]

Ok - once all the car-parking spaces at NT properties, English Heritage sites and other beauty spots are fitted with fast chargers then I’ll think about it. 40 minutes at a money-grabbing M-Way service area? Not on your life!

I am not sure Bluewater may be considered a beauty spot, but an interesting article (yes they are promoted articles) on shopping centre and retail roll-outs by an EV provider. Bluewater Shopping Centre set to host ‘UK’s largest destination EV charging hub’

RAW Charging is set to roll out 1,000 new EV charging bays across 28 retail and leisure destinations in the UK, including plans for what is being billed as the country’s largest destination charging hub at Bluewater.

The £24.5 million rollout will span major Landsec sites including Bluewater, Gunwharf Quays, White Rose Shopping Centre and Brighton Marina. It will include 554 AC fast chargers and 446 DC rapid chargers, with some having already been installed before the official announcement.

The rollout adds to RAW Charging’s existing presence across a range of destinations, with the company already operating infrastructure at sites including National Trust properties, Legoland Windsor, Alton Towers, McArthurGlen Designer Outlets and several hotel groups.

 

[jon0844]

Destination chargers are great ways to encourage visitors to stay a bit longer. Four or five hours to do a full charge on a car with a big battery means doing some shopping, maybe having a meal, or going to the cinema/bowling etc.

Well done to Bluewater and other sites realising this. Of course it does depend on what they choose to charge, but I assume the imminent electricity price cut will apply to private operators too?

 

[Snow1964]

Seem to be moving ahead with making EV provision for those without driveways too.

Connected kerb is going to install 3000 chargers over next 5 years across Dorset and BCP (Bournemouth Christchurch Poole), that follows the 800 Connected kerb announced across Blackburn and Darwin announced mid December.


Also zapmap has added prices to its maps, so now as well as coloured map points (colour shows charger power band) also get unit price being charged.
light yellow is slow <8kw,
blue is 8-22kw,
pink is rapid 50-149kw,
purple is ultra rapid 150kw and higher.

 

[The Ham]

On the economics, where petrol/diesel prices have risen of late electricity prices are falling as of 1st April by 3.5p, that means that for those on a low cost overnight tariff energy costs could be below 5p per kWh.

That could put electric car cost per mile (1.3p, assuming 3.9p per kWh and 3 miles per kWh) down to about 1/10th that of a petrol car (13p, which is about 48mpg at current fuel costs).

 

[Harpers Tate]

If they follow their promise, my 6 overnight hours will be at 4.16/kWh after 1 Apr.

 

[Snow1964]

If they follow their promise, my 6 overnight hours will be at 4.16/kWh after 1 Apr.

Normally 6 hours gives about 44kw/h so will be around £1.80

For a typical EV that's around 130 miles in winter, or about 160 miles in summer.

For many petrol cars 160 miles is around 25 litres or about £35
Diesel cars might be 20 litres, but at nearer £1.62 is also £35

So economics are changing to nearer 18 times price of overnight electricity
Or nearer 15 times, if assuming 16% of charging is away from home on occasional long trips (the 16% comes from zapmap survey)

 

[SWT_USER]

Destination chargers are great ways to encourage visitors to stay a bit longer. Four or five hours to do a full charge on a car with a big battery means doing some shopping, maybe having a meal, or going to the cinema/bowling etc.

Well done to Bluewater and other sites realising this. Of course it does depend on what they choose to charge, but I assume the imminent electricity price cut will apply to private operators too?

If the electricity price cut does apply to commercial chargers too I can't believe the saving will be passed on to customers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2026 ==

If they follow their promise, my 6 overnight hours will be at 4.16/kWh after 1 Apr.

I don't think they have a choice but to pass on the reduction to domestic users - hasn't the government forced them to?

Like Jon0844 I am looking forward to my 3.5p overnight rate!

 

[Snow1964]

If the electricity price cut does apply to commercial chargers too I can't believe the saving will be passed on to customers.

The market will decide, just like petrol station pricing. If a charger down the road is cheaper, then if operator wants its investment to be used, going to have to stay competitive.

Of course it wholesale price falls say 25%, unlikely to fully pass on reduction, and will keep some for extra profit. Prices will always be based on balancing act between how high, and people going elsewhere

 

[jon0844]

On the economics, where petrol/diesel prices have risen of late electricity prices are falling as of 1st April by 3.5p, that means that for those on a low cost overnight tariff energy costs could be below 5p per kWh.

That could put electric car cost per mile (1.3p, assuming 3.9p per kWh and 3 miles per kWh) down to about 1/10th that of a petrol car (13p, which is about 48mpg at current fuel costs).

My rate should be 3.49p per kWh from April 1st, on Intelligent Octopus Go. More recent customers were on plans that were originally 7.5 or 8p, so subtract 3.5p from them and it's still stupidly cheap. Disclaimer; yes I know not everyone can use this tariff or charge at home - but public charging is now cheaper than ever before, and should hopefully also benefit from price cuts and possibly also a change in the VAT levied.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2026 ==

I don't think they have a choice but to pass on the reduction to domestic users - hasn't the government forced them to?

My understanding is that they were not forced to, but will be effectively shamed into doing so because there was a table produced showing each energy company and what they intended to do. To be the one that didn't show an automatic cut to existing plans wouldn't be a good look.

In any case, do we trust Ofgem to enforce anything if one big energy company had decided to only put the cut on a new plan (perhaps with a higher standing charge) or delay the cut? Or find some other loophole?

Thankfully, once Octopus and a couple of others said they would pass on the cut to everyone without a single call/email/website form needed, it did seem to prompt everyone to do it... but I am not sure what the CPO (Charge Point Operators) are going to do if the cut applies to them.

 

[AndrewE]

I just came across a passsage in a comment column (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/mar/19/iran-greed-oil-capitalism-regimes)

will press the government to explain our predicament properly, and mobilise for full-scale action. If you worry about the cost, consider this. The government’s Climate Change Committee estimates that the additional expense of a single fossil-fuel price spike on the scale of 2022’s is roughly the same as the entire cost of net zero by 2050. The price shock caused by Trump’s attack on Iran is likely to be even greater.

which says to me that people looking only at the current (apparent) costs to themselves are living in a fool's paradise. Not changing (by which I mean cutting FF use - even if it's strategic change like massive modal shifts in transport and heavy investment in reducing housing and industrial FF use) is going to cost us an awful lot more in things like infrastructure and housing repairs after floods and storms. Most people turn a blind eye to this - until it hits them and their lives and finances are devastated and they find they are uninsurable, which is almost worse.

 

[jon0844]

People who say net zero is expensive seem unable to see that once the infrastructure is built, we save money for years or decades. They also seem to ignore the fact that oil doesn't magic itself out of the earth and get refined/transported for free. The oil industry receives tremendous levels of subsidy - and I'm surprised the Government doesn't point that out when people like Tice and Farage want us to believe fossil fuels are cheaper than wind/solar/hydro... or indeed that the grid upgrades are expensive because of net zero, when even if we decided to keep using coal we'd still need to upgrade the grid as we build new homes and industry, changing electrical needs, data centres etc.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think the price of a charge at public chargers will not change much. Even if domestic electricity goes down in price. This is because public charging is so much more expensive already and so I doubt anyone who currently uses a public charger does so even if they have access to their own domestic charger. So no competition there.

What could happen is some public charging rates getting reduced because the basic cost of electricity is reduced and so some companies may decide to be more competitive. Can only hope.

 

[jon0844]

Companies are now competing more. I wouldn't say it's a full on price war, but there are now many discounts being applied - sometimes without any cost. Gridserve is known to be very expensive, but do promotional discounts from time to time (10% off during the last half term, on top of any discount for using the app). Tesla is competing hard with rates that undercut the price-capped consumer rate at off-peak times, and rates only a little more expensive at other times.

There are some companies that are hovering around 30-50p all day and I haven't checked recently, but many other companies offer off-peak discounts now as standard. This means if you needed to charge at a public charger because you can't do so at home, you just do it in the evening or early morning. Off peak can be as early as 1900 in some places so it's not like you need to set an alarm and charge at 0100!

For some time companies seemed to want to operate cartel-like and fix around the 80-90p level, but I think they underestimated the general public that actually decided to boycott them and shop around. And now there are so many chargers, the expensive ones run a strong risk of being left unused.