Transpennine Express Industrial Action

[trickyvegas]

Takes too long to train drivers up, route knowledge and signing of units differs from area to area, and at such short notice it is very unlikely. You'll sometimes hear of management filling in for conductors but most members of management have probably never driven a train before.

Plus 185s are unique to TPE, so you'd struggle to find anyone else qualified to drive them.

 

[Butts]

Just a few facts a m8 of mine posted on Facebook

Highest paid director salary £456,000 up 5.8%
Total Sales £246million - up on the previous year.
Profit before tax - £43million - up 13.1%
Shareholder Dividends £42.5million - UP 165%
Inflation rate now 5%
Pay offer to staff 2.2%..

It costs a lot more in hard cash to give everyone 2.2% than one individual 5.8% of £456,000.

Would you be prepared to take a pay cut if the profits were down as I'm sure the director probably would have to.

Do you feel the fact a Director is getting paid less in a year than many mediocre Premiership Footballers notwithstanding the fact he is responsible for a multi million pound company.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It costs a lot more in hard cash to give everyone 2.2% than one individual 5.8% of £456,000.

Would you be prepared to take a pay cut if the profits were down as I'm sure the director probably would have to.

Do you feel the fact a Director is getting paid less in a year than many mediocre Premiership Footballers notwithstanding the fact he is responsible for a multi million pound company.

Surely if you want to set an example you should be prepared to have EXACTLY the same percentage rise as your colleagues failure to do so would make one hell of a hypocrite.

its called setting an example.

and as I said on another thread when things are bad then the staff take the blows, directors very rarely do

 

[tbtc]

Presuably TPE staff are on a bit more than Northern?

And, if the franchises are merged in a couple of years (or, at least, parts of the franchise are shuffled around) then this would leave the TPE staff as being the highest earners?

And then the Unions will demand that all "ex Northern" staff get their pay/conditions increased up to what the "ex TPE" staff are on (in the way that they demanded the "ex Central Trains" and "ex Silverlink staff at LM had their salary/ holidays increased in line with the best rate that some staff were on)?

So you could suggest that this round of pay negotiations is one last chance for TPE staff to get a "big" increase (because post-merger they will be the higher earners, so harder to justify bigger increases?

Or you could argue that any increase for TPE staff now (say to £40,000) will be used in a couple of years time as the Union's "benchmark" for what all "ex Northern" staff at a merged franchise should be on?

Call me cynical...

 

[Butts]

Surely if you want to set an example you should be prepared to have EXACTLY the same percentage rise as your colleagues failure to do so would make one hell of a hypocrite.

its called setting an example.

and as I said on another thread when things are bad then the staff take the blows, directors very rarely do

Do the blows include pay cuts when profits are down as Directors often have to

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Presuably TPE staff are on a bit more than Northern?

And, if the franchises are merged in a couple of years (or, at least, parts of the franchise are shuffled around) then this would leave the TPE staff as being the highest earners?

And then the Unions will demand that all "ex Northern" staff get their pay/conditions increased up to what the "ex TPE" staff are on (in the way that they demanded the "ex Central Trains" and "ex Silverlink staff at LM had their salary/ holidays increased in line with the best rate that some staff were on)?

So you could suggest that this round of pay negotiations is one last chance for TPE staff to get a "big" increase (because post-merger they will be the higher earners, so harder to justify bigger increases?

Or you could argue that any increase for TPE staff now (say to £40,000) will be used in a couple of years time as the Union's "benchmark" for what all "ex Northern" staff at a merged franchise should be on?

Call me cynical...

There isn't much difference in the pay to be honest if it came to it it would be all about the t&c's they are usually the stumbling block to any harmonisation, thats one of the reasons the Northern Guards & drivers harmonisation hasn't gone through, they want it zero cost which to be frank is impossible.

 

[tbtc]

Surely if you want to set an example you should be prepared to have EXACTLY the same percentage rise as your colleagues failure to do so would make one hell of a hypocrite.

its called setting an example

Bob Crow, general secretary of the RMT rail union, condemned the likely fare increase. ‘Commuters will be absolutely disgusted to be told that they will be facing a fare rise of eight per cent at a time when salaries are being frozen’

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/872460-...-after-latest-inflation-figures#ixzz1VJvxeogs

Feigning concern about passengers not getting any pay rises whilst demanding big increases for your own staff? Great way to set an example...

Sooner Bob accepts that he's representing a middle class profession and stopped pretending to care for the working class, the better...

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Do the blows include pay cuts when profits are down as Directors often have to

in many cases yes & redundancy and no overtime etc etc, can't see many directors struggling when times are hard.

 

[exile]

Do the blows include pay cuts when profits are down as Directors often have to

Pay for directors of leading companies has been going up far, far faster than that of average employees for at least 30 years.

 

[Butts]

in many cases yes & redundancy and no overtime etc etc, can't see many directors struggling when times are hard.

Would you like to be a Director - and if not why not ?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Bob Crow, general secretary of the RMT rail union, condemned the likely fare increase. ‘Commuters will be absolutely disgusted to be told that they will be facing a fare rise of eight per cent at a time when salaries are being frozen’

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/872460-...-after-latest-inflation-figures#ixzz1VJvxeogs

Feigning concern about passengers not getting any pay rises whilst demanding big increases for your own staff? Great way to set an example...

Sooner Bob accepts that he's representing a middle class profession and stopped pretending to care for the working class, the better...

Middle class moi? that will be the day

On a serious note though Bob represents everyone from cleaners to Traincrew to admin, sadly people just assume the RMT represent just Traincrew when actually they represent all types of grades across not just the railway but the maritime industry as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Would you like to be a Director - and if not why not ?

and the odds of an average hard working working class becoming a director is? with the utmost respect if directors set a good example then the chances of industrial action by us lower mortals would be less, but when they are creaming the profits its ok but the actual people who make the money for the directors can't? get real

 

[YorkshireRider]

I have a feeling that the arguments here are going to be the same ones we have had on all of the other industrial action threads!

Yep, looks like it

 

[Butts]

Pay for directors of leading companies has been going up far, far faster than that of average employees for at least 30 years.

Not nearly as fast a Footballers wages yet no one seems to complain about that - this is one industry where the employees get paid more than The Directors and look what a mess it's in

 

[CarterUSM]

Bob Crow, general secretary of the RMT rail union, condemned the likely fare increase. ‘Commuters will be absolutely disgusted to be told that they will be facing a fare rise of eight per cent at a time when salaries are being frozen’

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/872460-...-after-latest-inflation-figures#ixzz1VJvxeogs

Feigning concern about passengers not getting any pay rises whilst demanding big increases for your own staff? Great way to set an example...

Sooner Bob accepts that he's representing a middle class profession and stopped pretending to care for the working class, the better...

What difference does it make? Because I don't think it would make any of his critics change their opinion of him, his methods, or the RMT.

Same old debate also, "you should think yourself lucky you have a job", or " I haven't had a pay rise for 3 years". Away and raffle yourselves, many of us have been there too.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Yep, looks like it

Yep I might just copy n paste a few previous threads lol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not nearly as fast a Footballers wages yet no one seems to complain about that - this is one industry where the employees get paid more than The Directors and look what a mess it's in

actually we all complain about footballers wages but as sport is on e of the ultimate cherry picking jobs it wouldn't make any difference, people will pay for the best and if you have 5 or 6 rich teams bidding for one player that will happen, in MLS Beckham has recouped more in merchandise etc then his wage..and thats quite a few pennies to say the least

 

[Jonny]

Up here on the ECML its not realy a problem in my part of the North East afterall there is still 4 other trains from Durham to Newcastle that arrive into Newcastle before 9am.

2 Northerns
1 East Coast
1 CrossCountry.

As for those living in Chester-le-Street well its ether become a sardine on a pacer or use the very frequent bus service.
<edited>

The p!-s take of that is that some of those are most are driven so badly that motion sickness is inevitable and are often infested with chlidren and those who think the fact that because they are parents gives them some right to be helped at every turn and use prams etc as battering rams; the rest are semi-nominal limited stops run by Arriva (also CrossCountry - why can't they be honest enough to put their group brand on it?). But hey that's bus companies for you. And the £9 per hour might not seem much but it's what bus drivers on that route are supposed to get and it is probably a lot better than what most of their passengers who travel to work!

It's just as well I'm not travelling that day, I would either cycle or get a lift/taxi either to another point. That would be interesting in itself because I would still be going through the same main settlements. Let's just say that whereas I wouldn't carry the spare air horn (a safety device) on a 20 mile round trip, I might just consider it necessary, especially if I need to use the same route as the buses. It's enough to drive someone to capitalism.

Another case of the train is delayed due to Crowbar Bob. The sooner it is made so that a majority of staff have to submit votes before a strike can happen the better - at least then it means that the staff are seriously bothered. If they were that bothered then I could understand - although I would wager that many of them didn't even bother to vote.

 

[Butts]

Middle class moi? that will be the day

On a serious note though Bob represents everyone from cleaners to Traincrew to admin, sadly people just assume the RMT represent just Traincrew when actually they represent all types of grades across not just the railway but the maritime industry as well.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


and the odds of an average hard working working class becoming a director is? with the utmost respect if directors set a good example then the chances of industrial action by us lower mortals would be less, but when they are creaming the profits its ok but the actual people who make the money for the directors can't? get real

A Bus Conductor became Prime Minister so why not a Guard a Director ?

Were you to become a Director you may look a things with a different perspective.

I note you fail to mention shareholders who the profits are paid to in the form of a dividend. Does your company have an employee sharesheme ?

The people who make the money for you and the Directors are the passengers and the taxpayers who subsidise your company.

 

[strange6]

So put yourself in the shoes of those who are employed and have mortgages, families, and ever increasing bills!

Also put yourself in the shoes of many, many people who earn 15 - 20 grand a year and haven't had a payrise in many a year. Put in that context, this whole scenario seems rather perverse

 

[ANorthernGuard]

A Bus Conductor became Prime Minister so why not a Guard a Director ?

Were you to become a Director you may look a things with a different perspective.

I note you fail to mention shareholders who the profits are paid to in the form of a dividend. Does your company have an employee sharesheme ?

The people who make the money for you and the Directors are the passengers and the taxpayers who subsidise your company.

i very much doubt that someone my age would be able to become a director and no we don't have an employee share scheme and as the taxpayers subsidise our wages therefore I pay for myself lol and also the directors.

if the person who got paid that wage was the chief exec of firstgroup then I would understand it but TPE?

Direcors and their ilk lose all respect from their day to day shop floor staff (so to speak) because frankly not many of them have actually even spent a day with someone eho actually does the job on a daily basis, whether its a cleaner, guard, driver or platform staff etc etc, with no respect you get easily disgruntled staff, at least at Northern we know who are directors are and we actually have reasonably regular meetings with the head honcho and his deputy (Something Heidi Mottram started) First seem to like being in there Ivory tower

 

[Butts]

i very much doubt that someone my age would be able to become a director and no we don't have an employee share scheme and as the taxpayers subsidise our wages therefore I pay for myself lol and also the directors.

if the person who got paid that wage was the chief exec of firstgroup then I would understand it but TPE?

Direcors and their ilk lose all respect from their day to day shop floor staff (so to speak) because frankly not many of them have actually even spent a day with someone eho actually does the job on a daily basis, whether its a cleaner, guard, driver or platform staff etc etc, with no respect you get easily disgruntled staff, at least at Northern we know who are directors are and we actually have reasonably regular meetings with the head honcho and his deputy (Something Heidi Mottram started) First seem to like being in there Ivory tower

This sounds like a commentary from the 1970's....

I think your company would be a prime candidate for "Undercover Boss"

May I politely comment however bad things seem there is a lot worse out there - that's not to say people will ever stop moaning about their lot however well off the rest of us perceive it to be....

It's human nature

Finally you must have some good Managers or Directors ?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

This sounds like a commentary from the 1970's....

I think your company would be a prime candidate for "Undercover Boss"

May I politely comment however bad things seem there is a lot worse out there - that's not to say people will ever stop moaning about their lot however well off the rest of us perceive it to be....

It's human nature

Finally you must have some good Managers or Directors ?

As I have said our Directors etc actually have alot more hands on approach then most every few months everyone has a chance to speak to our ceo etc face to face and it works, things are more transparent and it also helps that they can be more honest with us then most, we all know nothing can be done with the state of our stock etc. and they are honest about that and they even hold there hands up when they have fouled up, are they overpaid, probably but atleast there is a face behind the name, Firstgroup have never been like that, the directors think they are better then the staff !with Northern apart from the odd grumble we tend not to get that impression. of course we will stand by what we feel is right eg the 2 day strike action earlier this year) but that hasn't damaged relations with the top bosses, Firstgroup directors like to be seperated from their employees..and it shows

 

[Butts]

As I have said our Directors etc actually have alot more hands on approach then most every few months everyone has a chance to speak to our ceo etc face to face and it works, things are more transparent and it also helps that they can be more honest with us then most, we all know nothing can be done with the state of our stock etc. and they are honest about that and they even hold there hands up when they have fouled up, are they overpaid, probably but atleast there is a face behind the name, Firstgroup have never been like that, the directors think they are better then the staff !with Northern apart from the odd grumble we tend not to get that impression. of course we will stand by what we feel is right eg the 2 day strike action earlier this year) but that hasn't damaged relations with the top bosses, Firstgroup directors like to be seperated from their employees..and it shows

Does this apply to Scotrail which is also run by First and Great Western ?

 

[Oswyntail]

How many people here know what a Director actually does or is responsible for? So how many people have any right to comment? (And put, eg, Driver instead of Director, and you will see this sentiment in all these threads).
The basic question is: can an employer recruit and retain sufficient suitable staff as required? If yes, pay levels are about right.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Does this apply to Scotrail which is also run by First and Great Western ?

each TOC tends to have there own Directors but Firstgroup are widely renowned to have there heads in the clouds (or up their own a*ses) lol

 

[Butts]

How many people here know what a Director actually does or is responsible for? So how many people have any right to comment? (And put, eg, Driver instead of Director, and you will see this sentiment in all these threads).
The basic question is: can an employer recruit and retain sufficient suitable staff as required? If yes, pay levels are about right.

That comment may be deemed subjective particularly in light of the current labour market.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

How many people here know what a Director actually does or is responsible for? So how many people have any right to comment? (And put, eg, Driver instead of Director, and you will see this sentiment in all these threads).
The basic question is: can an employer recruit and retain sufficient suitable staff as required? If yes, pay levels are about right.

Thats one of the arguments tho isn't it? if people actually saw the directors and understood what they did there would less amniosity however when they just stay in there offices and keep hidden, it will not change

 

[S19]

Also put yourself in the shoes of many, many people who earn 15 - 20 grand a year and haven't had a payrise in many a year. Put in that context, this whole scenario seems rather perverse

So do you think it is wrong that anyone on a good salary gets a pay rise then?

Even though the roles and employers aren't comparable whatsoever?

 

[tbtc]

What difference does it make? Because I don't think it would make any of his critics change their opinion of him, his methods, or the RMT.

Same old debate also, "you should think yourself lucky you have a job", or " I haven't had a pay rise for 3 years". Away and raffle yourselves, many of us have been there too.

I think its pretty poor of him using the argument that most people aren't getting a pay rise (or a very token one) when it suits him...

...then demanding full RPI increase (not even CPI, which is becoming the Government definition for more and more things)...

Can't have it both ways

 

[Greenback]

Also put yourself in the shoes of many, many people who earn 15 - 20 grand a year and haven't had a payrise in many a year. Put in that context, this whole scenario seems rather perverse

I am in that earnings bracket. Last year I earned £12k being self employed. I should be the first one to complain about people earning £40K!

Firstgroup directors like to be seperated from their employees..and it shows

As a former First employee, I can agree with that statement!

Does this apply to Scotrail which is also run by First and Great Western ?

As a former FGW employee, yes!

Incidentally, I'm not sure why the RMT and everyone's favourite Marxist has been brought into this discussion. According to the OP, it is ASLEF who have balloted, and their leader is Keith Norman as far as I know.

So do you think it is wrong that anyone on a good salary gets a pay rise then?

Even though the roles and employers aren't comparable whatsoever?

Well put!

 

[northernrail2009]

What a silly week to come out with a Strike with the fares going up and also doing it on a Friday before bank holiday weekend.

The people that will suffer in this is not FTPE no it will be the passengers who pay over the top fares like myself and also the drivers who walk out as they wont get paid.

it wont do FTPE or First any harm at all as im sorry to say the drivers will not get any public support at all.

To have a cause you have to have public support and in the times that we are in the drivers wont get it.

now so you dont lose a 2 days pay and pee many passengers off call of the strike and just moaning that you are not getting a pay rise along with many other millions of people in the uk.

Rant over