EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[Railperf]

001-003 and 005 have gone. Still waiting on 004 to depart

But 004 is no longer available to EMR. Is the remedial work to get 004 ready using up space required to maintain the remainder of the fleet?

 

[3RDGEN]

001-003 and 005 have gone. Still waiting on 004 to depart

Thanks.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Feb 2026 ==

But 004 is no longer available to EMR. Is the remedial work to get 004 ready using up space required to maintain the remainder of the fleet?

Ironically 004 is likely a priority since it must be fully operational to return off lease so EMR can stop paying for it, there may also be a contracted release date EMR need to meet. Once it's gone the maintenance focus can be fully on the remaining fleet and the 810 introduction.

 

[Railperf]

I expect it was "value engineered out" leaving the fact that any Dn train that wishes to terminate at Wellingborough and turn back has to be put Slow Line at Sharnsbrook and then proceed to Wellingborough on the DS with it's 50mph Permitted Line Speed.

If you had a crossover from the down fast to the up fast south of Wellingborough you could route the Corby service into the wellingborough down slow platform. But in the current timetable that would only be 4 or 5 minutes before the southbound Nottingham is due to pass through at speed.
I'm not sure what the recommended minimum headway would need to be for a northbound train crossing down fast to down slow including clearing the junction in all of other southbound train not to see caution signals.
In the perfect world they would be at least 60 or 70 mph turnouts to allow the quickest exit off the main line and onto the slow.
Probably costly a steel and out. The dream option would be to have a flyover directly down fast to down slow. But I guess it can't be justified when there's only four Intercity trains coming southbound per hour.
It looks like trying to position such a crossover further south would be an issue because the slow and fast lines take different routes and differ in height.

 

[ChilliSauce]

And you’re able to go to as many Wetherspoons as the wallet allows now!

Or enjoy a rather delicious Sunday lunch in the Landmark Hotel , 222 Marylebone Road.

The old place certainly has been tarted up a bit from when it was the Kremlin.

 

[Railperf]

So far today - and continuing from yesterday units 6, 14, 15, 16, 18 and 19 showing to be good performers.

On the naughty step - 104 and 13 look to be on 3 engines or 4 with some engines derated

Note: not all sets evaluated so far.

Edit: I am not sure what is happening with set 008 but it is hemorrhaging time on it's inbound journey from Nottingham 1B31.

 

[Bikeman78]

Intrigues me how you know this...

I think the clue is in the name. Clearly Railperf spends a lot of time timing trains. Once you know how a good 222 performs, it's fairly easy to spot bad ones by looking at realtime trains or watching an online map to see how long a unit takes to move from one signal berth to the next. On a similar note, I could do a line up for Wimbledon and spot the 450s quite easily without clicking on the individual service. They usually run two or three minutes late.

 

[jfowkes]

Edit: I am not sure what is happening with set 008 but it is hemorrhaging time on it's inbound journey from Nottingham 1B31.

Interestingly (or not) I was on 222022 yesterday from Nottingham and it followed a very similar profile.

 

[apinnard]

And being amazingly cheap with BR boxes to boot that’s never going to be a stumbling block. Just need to try and involve an 810 now or possibly a 222 wherever they finally end up.

I note things have been quite poor today with 222 timings. Maybe hold off unt

Whilst everyone is entitled to an opinion it seems you have little understanding of the effort "the old boys club" as you call it put in to try to deliver a reliable on time service for passengers.

All broken of course with the now proved failed Tory Privatisation.

30 years on from Privatisation so the majority of the "old boys club" would of retired. This is reflected in the now very low number of active staff who have Safeguarded Travel Facilities.

So I can only conclude it is this "new breed" of railway management that has taken over control of what was a very efficient industry and that quality it what your seeing today. The general excuse for late arrivals / cancellations seems to be "train delay repay can be claimed".

BR project Electrification "wires over the border" Weaver Junction to Glasgow ...completed on-time and on budget. Electrification of MML to Bedford completed on time and on budget. Electrification of ECML to Edinborough completed on-time and on budget.

Electrification of GWML .. privatisation delivering .. Completed Late, Grossly over spent and had to be pruned back so has never made Bristol or Oxford .. What it might of lacked was a bit of the "Old Boy Network"

I can assure you, as an ex-employee of the railway industry, I have a very good understanding.

 

[Railperf]

So far today - and continuing from yesterday units 6, 14, 15, 16, 18 and 19 showing to be good performers.

On the naughty step - 104 and 13 look to be on 3 engines or 4 with some engines derated

Note: not all sets evaluated so far.

Edit: I am not sure what is happening with set 008 but it is hemorrhaging time on it's inbound journey from Nottingham 1B31.

Add 17 to the good units today, with 18 seeming to turn in some more average performances towatds the end of the day

By the end of the day, at least 4-5 sets now running on 3 engines - 10, 12, 13 101 and 104

That means 3/4 of the fleet with some sort of performance issue. And a third of those units running the risk of losing a further engine!

 

[Andy Pacer]

RTT is not detailed anough! Wellingborough in both directions is a known 'delay' point for the Intercity service, so it is not a location where data alone tells a full story.
Signal berth data is a better indicator. Especially where trains accelerate away from a station to a certain distance, x amount of signal blocks.

A group of trains that are good performers will provide a cluster of timings in the same ballpark. Check the performance of the train from multiple stops, and you then get to sort out those trains that cnsistently produce fast times compared to those that are in an average or a poor range.

Take for an example a Nottingham stopper. You can check the berth timings (detailed to the second) from all the stations that are on its stopping pattern, and then check those timings with other services with the same stopping pattern. You can do that northbound and southbound.

Combined with real observations, I.E watching trains accelerating away from stations and observing how many engines are powered up, confirms the data.
I've never seen a set consistently record poor berth times but be on five engines for example. Just as a set on three engines will never provide a fast time.
Sometimes a set on five engines can be slightly slower than another (maybe one or some of the engines are slightly derated). Or a driver may notch up slightly slower than another, but either way on a healthy set it doesn't affect the time by more than a few seconds.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Feb 2026 ==


Class 222 engines are pretty noisy and it is very evident when one is not working as the train accelerates out of the station. I'm the same way people note that the engine is not working under the saloon they are sitting in. It is noticeably quieter.

Interesting, thanks.

 

[GhostManDN91]

I'm curious, are there or has there been any diagrams where there are 5 car double set 222s in passenger service that split/join at a station?

 

[Hairy Bear]

Kettering in the morning and evening. Sheffield, Nottingham,Derby and Pancras thoughout the day. Very regular event in service.

 

[Spartacus]

I'm curious, are there or has there been any diagrams where there are 5 car double set 222s in passenger service that split/join at a station?

The Corby service splits and joins at Kettering daily, and the first Lincoln at Nottingham

 

[Freemo]

There's been a few times already this year where a reduced timetable due to engineering works has had 222s coupling up in Sheffield to run back as doubles. Platform staff have a hard time preventing passengers from trying to board whilst this goes on.

 

[222001]

There's been a few times already this year where a reduced timetable due to engineering works has had 222s coupling up in Sheffield to run back as doubles. Platform staff have a hard time preventing passengers from trying to board whilst this goes on.

Saw this first hand with the 1000 on Saturday, the poor guy on the platform was having a proper meltdown!

 

[baz962]

Kettering in the morning and evening. Sheffield, Nottingham,Derby and Pancras thoughout the day. Very regular event in service.

St Pancras isn't in passenger service though. Cleared of pax and locked up . Sheffield too. Only at Nottingham and Kettering with passengers on , during a journey.

 

[liamf656]

Slightly off topic but shows how good the 222s are when they DO work, as 222102 will be sent out on 1Y53/1H60 tonight vice 360

Realtime Trains | 1Y53 1847 St Pancras International to Corby | 20/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 1Y53 1847 departure from St Pancras International to Corby on 20/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1H60 2010 Corby to St Pancras International | 20/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 1H60 2010 departure from Corby to St Pancras International on 20/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Trainman40083]

The strange thing is. People slag off EMR due to overcrowding, due to weekend closures of the East Coast Mainline. Then people say their cheap advance tickets aren't available.

 

[Qwerty133]

Slightly off topic but shows how good the 222s are when they DO work, as 222102 will be sent out on 1Y53/1H60 tonight vice 360

Realtime Trains | 1Y53 1847 St Pancras International to Corby | 20/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 1Y53 1847 departure from St Pancras International to Corby on 20/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1H60 2010 Corby to St Pancras International | 20/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 1H60 2010 departure from Corby to St Pancras International on 20/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This is exactly what shouldn’t be happening.

 

[liamf656]

This is exactly what shouldn’t be happening.

No I agree, but good use of resources to keep things moving and it's paid off

 

[ChilliSauce]

Slightly off topic but shows how good the 222s are when they DO work, as 222102 will be sent out on 1Y53/1H60 tonight vice 360

Not sure myself that it shows how good the 222s are, more like shows just how bad and unreliable the 2nd hand 360s actually are, when not a single 4 car in the whole sorry fleet is apparently available ..

 

[liamf656]

Not sure myself that it shows how good the 222s are, more like shows just how bad and unreliable the 2nd hand 360s actually are, when not a single 4 car in the whole sorry fleet is apparently available ..

I think it was more the fact a last minute issue had a quick solution, rather than the lack of 360s. The service ran, and near enough to time, and shows that you can still throw a 222 at something and see it perform well.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Slightly off topic but shows how good the 222s are when they DO work, as 222102 will be sent out on 1Y53/1H60 tonight vice 360

Realtime Trains | 1Y53 1847 St Pancras International to Corby | 20/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 1Y53 1847 departure from St Pancras International to Corby on 20/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 1H60 2010 Corby to St Pancras International | 20/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 1H60 2010 departure from Corby to St Pancras International on 20/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The (immediately preceding) 18.35 departure from St P should have been formed of 5 cars for Nottingham and 5 cars for Melton Mowbray, but - according to RTT - the latter did not run. Presumably the 222 was used instead on this Corby service after a 360 or crew problem.
The reasons for this decision is not clear to me but it has an interesting outcome. For passengers from, for instance, Corby, to Melton the next direct service is the 18.35 ex St. P - in three days time, next Monday. Is this a record for delay?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The (immediately preceding) 18.35 departure from St P should have been formed of 5 cars for Nottingham and 5 cars for Melton Mowbray, but - according to RTT - the latter did not run. Presumably the 222 was used instead on this Corby service after a 360 or crew problem.
The reasons for this decision is not clear to me but it has an interesting outcome. For passengers from, for instance, Corby, to Melton the next direct service is the 18.35 ex St. P - in three days time, next Monday. Is this a record for delay?

Did they send said passengers via Leicester on a Cross Country or did they taxi them to Melton Mowbray ( originally due 20.17; the XC connection would have got them there at 20.32 ) and Oakham ( originally due 20.06; XC connection 20.44 )?

I suspect the XC connection would have been the logical choice? At least it was only a +18 at Leicester... really, Leicester to Peterborough should get two trains per hour instead of one but that's a debate for another thread ).

 

[liamf656]

Did they send said passengers via Leicester on a Cross Country or did they taxi them to Melton Mowbray ( originally due 20.17; the XC connection would have got them there at 20.32 ) and Oakham ( originally due 20.06; XC connection 20.44 )?

I suspect the XC connection would have been the logical choice? At least it was only a +18 at Leicester... really, Leicester to Peterborough should get two trains per hour instead of one but that's a debate for another thread ).

The Melton portion is very lightly loaded anyway but those going beyond Corby will go via Leicester. If someone were to wish to travel from Corby to Oakham/Melton I'd imagine they'll get a taxi but I've rarely ever seen anyone board at Corby

 

[tram21]

Did they send said passengers via Leicester on a Cross Country or did they taxi them to Melton Mowbray ( originally due 20.17; the XC connection would have got them there at 20.32 ) and Oakham ( originally due 20.06; XC connection 20.44 )?

I suspect the XC connection would have been the logical choice? At least it was only a +18 at Leicester... really, Leicester to Peterborough should get two trains per hour instead of one but that's a debate for another thread ).

The Melton portion is very lightly loaded anyway but those going beyond Corby will go via Leicester. If someone were to wish to travel from Corby to Oakham/Melton I'd imagine they'll get a taxi but I've rarely ever seen anyone board at Corby

The Melton service almost never runs nowadays anyway!

In February, the evening service has run 4 times and been cancelled 8 times!

No idea what the alternative arrangement for passengers is though?

 

[Merle Haggard]

The Melton service almost never runs nowadays anyway!

In February, the evening service has run 4 times and been cancelled 8 times!

No idea what the alternative arrangement for passengers is though?

Interesting to compare the service from London to Melton (one train a day, high cancelation rate, nothing at weekends) with the service from London to Evesham (a smaller town but about the same distance from London) - 18 trains a day. It's the curse of Midland Main Line!

 

[tram21]

Interesting to compare the service from London to Melton (one train a day, high cancelation rate, nothing at weekends) with the service from London to Evesham (a smaller town but about the same distance from London) - 18 trains a day. It's the curse of Midland Main Line!

Melton Mowbray is incredibly cut off in all ways, but that's for a different thread!

 

[Railperf]

EMR / Hitachi seen to have mustered up 20 out of 22 sets for todays diagrams.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2026 ==

A brief analysis of Saturdays running suggests units 6, 8, 9 were particularly poor with 11 and 20 in the list of worst performing units with unit 006 really struggling on 1B61 and being terminated at Kettering. It seemed to start the day strongly but very slow on its large acceleration away from Market HArborough on 1B61.

The bette performing units seemed to be 12, 13, 15, 16 17 and 19.

 

[Spartacus]

222015 already in trouble this morning. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C52246/2026-02-24/detailed#allox_id=0