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What rolling stock could the initial East West Rail services use instead of Class 196s?
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Especially as that person has been known to make spurious claims before.
Could there be enough cascaded units within the Chiltern fleet post Mk5 introduction? Eg 165 & 168?
I've heard it from well respected sources as well, who are normally on point with what they tell me.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
(Quoted post from the Traction & Rolling Stock thread EWR/Chiltern Class 196 Build and Implementation).
As per the title of this thread, what rolling stock could the initial East West Rail services use instead of Class 196s?
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Presumably the easiest answer is 165/168s displaced by Mk5a + 68s.
Unless the answer is Mk5a + 68 but I doubt it (are the platforms even long enough, the sectional appendix doesn't have their lengths).
Unless the answer is Mk5a + 68 but I doubt it (are the platforms even long enough, the sectional appendix doesn't have their lengths).
CR165022
Established Member
Oxford is long enough for the MK5 sets but I don't think 2A at Milton Keynes is, from what I remember that can only take a 4 350 or up to a 5 377.
Chiltern don't have enough stock to use anything other than the 196s on EWR.
Unless they swap the 196s for the eight 172/0s and /1s, both of which have previously been used in DOO mode (for London Overground and Chiltern, respectively.)
They don't have bodyside cameras, however, so mirrors or cameras would need to be installed at Winslow, Bletchley High Level and Milton Keynes Central...or they'd need a Guard.
Unless they swap the 196s for the eight 172/0s and /1s, both of which have previously been used in DOO mode (for London Overground and Chiltern, respectively.)
They don't have bodyside cameras, however, so mirrors or cameras would need to be installed at Winslow, Bletchley High Level and Milton Keynes Central...or they'd need a Guard.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Ah, Chime Whistle...
... So probably something he has made up again trying to stir the pot.
And as I say I've heard from several other reliable sources prior to Chime tweeting.
Problem is, if Chime Whistle has posted that much rubbish over the years that when he does post something credible, people are very sceptic.
Assuming there is a grain of truth in this, what would the benefit of using, presumably, 165s or 168s be over the 196, all are DOO units so what are the benefits here?
Also, wouldn't this leave Chiltern short of DMU's on other routes?
stevieinselby
Established Member
It would be mad to get the Mk5As for their premium long-distance routes and then use them on what is (at the moment) very much a secondary line – and they don't have enough spare beyond what is needed for London to Birmingham (11 sets to run a half-hourly service) to put 4 sets aside for EWR.
And yes, while the new Explorer sets are displacing 168s, the whole point behind that is that they can run more sets on other routes doubled up to add much-needed capacity and also to reduce the number of 165s needed in service as they are knackered and unreliable – so any 168s or 165s they use on EWR come out of that budget.
The boy who cried 'Wolf', springs to mind.
You'd need 4 diagrams dedicated on a daily basis. Unless you venture into the realms of inter-working the London trains.
Do they have these units spare, possibly - post Mk5 in December.
Will they have capacity issues, requiring the use of these 'released' units, possibly.
Will they be able to achieve the Wants/ needs of everyone, doubtful (my own opinion).
And yes. Resolve the DOO debacle it does not.
*debate.
DavidGrain
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This could be a misunderstanding of the report that East West Rail have been tasked with sourcing 20 x 5 car battery electric units capable of being used on the discontinuous electric power supply which the whole line from Oxford to Cambridge is due to have in the future.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Or maybe someone within Chiltern has noticed that running 2 coach units will probably be full & standing from day 1 and are looking into longer trains to avoid media backlash
I think a visit to the Mk5a thread may be in order to establish that capacity issues are inherent in Chilterns operation(s).
Liam L
Established Member
Has that definitely been confirmed or is it forum speculation?
Feels like recently that the 165s and 168s are as reliable as each other.
I guess with the 168s being refurbed currently, the 165s are next in line? So naturally a lower availability would follow.
Awful lot of the 165s travelling to / from Birmingham recently...
I've seen a few 165s at Moor Street recently, 2 hours on one down to London sounds about as inviting as 2 hours down to London on a 350/2!
At least on a 350/2 one has a chance of a table and something to hang on to.
*or should that read 'cling on to'.
MatthewHutton
Member
Maybe you do 165s with a guard and use the presumably better performing 196s for the High Wycombe stopper?
Only Bletchley (and potentially Banbury) Drivers are trained on 196s.
To use them anywhere else on Chiltern, they'd almost certainly need to train at least Marylebone and Aylesbury Drivers on them as well. Possibly Birmingham and Stourbridge too, depending on how diagrams are constructed.
CR165022
Established Member
Using the 196s on other Chiltern routes would be as much of as a pain as the 172s were. As most units cycle through Aylesbury by using the MET services to get there, and the 196s, nor the 172s, have the tripcocks for that.
Person I know involved with service planning could neither confirm nor deny when I asked them last night...
Says it all doesn't it....
JMW146
Member
9 VST ECS paths have appeared for the next 2 weeks on RTT from Birmingham to Banbury, which are apparently to train some managers to be able to perform a train manager/guard role, which I'm sure will go down like lead with RMT and ASLEF.
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What's your source of information to be able to catagorically link the two items?
Speculation plus train paths does not nessesilarily make for that outcome.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
And sorry to be nit-picky.
They appear to be bog standard STP planned paths, as opposed to VST Paths.
Realtime Trains | Departures from Banbury between 0200 and 0159 on 13/02/2026
Train information at Banbury between 0200 and 0159 on 13/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
I think this is very true. Someone has added 2 and 2 and come out with 457.
EWR will be running with the 196s at least until these new units are built and ready.
The 165s and 168s displaced by the MK5a’s taking over the Birmingham services will be used on the rest of the Chiltern route .
EWR wont be seeing any of the Mk5a’s, that idea is even more crazy than EWR loosing its 196s.
RPM
Established Member
Tables in 350/2s? Only in the ex-first class bit. There weren't even cup holders in standard.
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