Altnabreac station and the various legal disputes around it

[norbitonflyer]

The northwest boundary line, as confirmed by Applebys surveyor means that 0.40 to 0.49m of Station Cottage is actually outside of their registered title boundary.
Screenshots here from one of his videos

Surveyor report – Google Drive

drive.google.com

The ABC 2 kept that quiet!

Do you know if the outline of the cottage shows the actual wall of the building, or the edge of the eaves (which overhang the wall by about that much)? If the former, it would appear NR own the party wall (it is a party wall even if there is no building on one side of it). If the latter, NR could neverthelss claim rent for the part of the roof using the air rights over NR's land.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

So, their argument is that standing on a level crossing with a train approaching was not reckless, because there was no sign at the station telling them exactly how to request a train to stop?

And if there's no sign at a station telling you how to request a train to stop, then it would only be reasonable to assume that going to a level crossing some distance away, and standing on the tracks waving, counts as a "request stop"?

In the video he talks about it being a "request stop area", I suppose to imply that trains can be requested to stop anywhere within this designated area? But as far as I can see there's no such thing as a "request stop area". There are simply stations that are or aren't request stops.

I fear Mr Appleby was previously living off grid in Alaska, or has streamed the Railroad Alaska series where they have flag stops. Literally you stand by the track and flag the train down. I think you are supposed to wave an actual flag (not the Stars and Stripes just a large piece of cloth) but most in the series just seem to stand there and wave an arm.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2026 ==

The quarry to the Southwest of station house was not part of the Railway Board sale.
Relevant station house sasine register entry and deeds of sale in here

Altnabreac Station Deeds – Google Drive

drive.google.com

The quarry area lays to the south of the deer fence which seperates the quarry and disused sidings area.
The quarry wouldn't have been part of the 1876 disposition to the Sutherland and Caithness Railway Company and would have been part of the land owned by various Sinclairs prior to Forestry company ownership. Hence it being unquestionably (in my opinion) part of the CTH5589 title. However there's no evidence anywhere as far as I have seen for another sale of railway land, for the disused sidings to the south of the line, or the disused goods yard to the north of the line. So I believe these are a manifest inaccuracy in the title plan of CTH5589. Much like the addition of the station access road being added to the same title and subsequently giving rise to this saga.

CTH5589 shows what it shows. It is accurate until someone disputes it through the proper procedure. The boundary matches that of CT3311 'Station Hill' to the north. It shows the six plots carved out and sold to Mr Booth. It doesn't match mapped features particularly well. That may be an OS surveying error, a title drafting error or a title based on an earlier, less accurate or different OS survey. I guess this area wasn't surveyed at 25" to the mile! Although the original railway surveys might have been quite detailed.

The problem is, in central London, a 1 metre wide strip matters and can be valuable. For most of the flow country 1m is pretty irrelevant, yeah it's that field and that wood I'm selling. Except when it come to individual cottages and their drives!

 

[EYFanatic]

They gotta have that YT ad revenue!

Which you actually reduce by watching three seconds and then hitting the back button or closing tab. YT will then remove the view and take twice that in view pay

Only learnt that the other day

 

[takno]

Which you actually reduce by watching three seconds and then hitting the back button or closing tab. YT will then remove the view and take twice that in view pay

Only learnt that the other day

Sounds like the sort of fact that somebody made up tbh, or at least got the wrong end of the stick and really ran with it. Three seconds is likely to be point at which YT regard the ad as watched, and bill the advertiser, so if you watch 3 seconds or more than that then everybody is likely to get paid.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sounds like the sort of fact that somebody made up tbh, or at least got the wrong end of the stick and really ran with it. Three seconds is likely to be point at which YT regard the ad as watched, and bill the advertiser, so if you watch 3 seconds or more than that then everybody is likely to get paid.

Correct. If you don't watch for 3 seconds then the advert does not count as "shown" so the advertiser doesn't pay and hence the video creator doesn't get paid their sliver of a penny either. But you can't "remove twice the pay" doing this - sounds like Reddit nonsense.

 

[styles]

I fear Mr Appleby was previously living off grid in Alaska, or has streamed the Railroad Alaska series where they have flag stops. Literally you stand by the track and flag the train down. I think you are supposed to wave an actual flag (not the Stars and Stripes just a large piece of cloth) but most in the series just seem to stand there and wave an arm.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2026 ==


CTH5589 shows what it shows. It is accurate until someone disputes it through the proper procedure. The boundary matches that of CT3311 'Station Hill' to the north. It shows the six plots carved out and sold to Mr Booth. It doesn't match mapped features particularly well. That may be an OS surveying error, a title drafting error or a title based on an earlier, less accurate or different OS survey. I guess this area wasn't surveyed at 25" to the mile! Although the original railway surveys might have been quite detailed.

The problem is, in central London, a 1 metre wide strip matters and can be valuable. For most of the flow country 1m is pretty irrelevant, yeah it's that field and that wood I'm selling. Except when it come to individual cottages and their drives!

I believe this is actually a significant part of the problem. The exact process used to determine boundaries isn't itself exact. So far the Court of Session has ruled against the couple on their claims but there's no saying the decision can't be changed. It would be amazing if all sales included maps which were precise to the metre or less, but it's unfortunately not true. My own property boundary is not that precise and therefore involves a dispute over a fence. I'm not one to care and the other neighbour actually volunteered to fix the fence so heck if I'm going to argue it. But it remains a problem.

I hope that, whoever 'wins' this, the situation will be clarified concretely. Even the EE civil case is ongoing, so let's not completely rule out other eventualities yet.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The train they blocked was almost certainly 2H61 0700 Inverness to Wick, which lost 10 minutes between Forsinard and Georgemas Junction. They could have at least delayed them an extra minute so the passengers would be able to get delay repay at Thurso and Wick.

That would have been the second one. The one shown in this video is going the other way and is presumably the 0802 Wick to Inverness. There is an earlier service but it wuold have passed Altnabreac at about dawn, and the video is clearly later than that. (The third and fourth trains pass Altnabreac around lunchtime)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2026 ==

People still do, though - especially when an 18 is occupying the stop and the 341 you want to get on is approaching looking as if it might whiz past!

In such a situation I raise my right hand (the one further from the kerb, to indicate I don't want the bus already at the stop. A habit I learned on a route with a lot of short workings, where I wanted to go beyond the destination of the bus at the stop)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2026 ==

The couple in their own words say they don't trust advocates in Scotland, and call them "devil's advocates" implying an evil connotation.

They are conflating two terms. "Devilling" is a term used for the work of junior counsel, borrowed from printing, in whuich a "printer's devil" was an apprentice - so-called because they got covered in black ink, and because they blamed any typos they were responsible for on devils interfering with the blocks

A Devils Advocate was originally a role in the Church, for a person who put up counterarguments to test a candidate's suitability for canonisation. It is now used to mean anyone who heklps a colleague test the robsustness of his legal position, scientific theory, political argument etc. by trying to think of the arguments an opponent will present, so his colleague can be prepared for them when they are debated.

 

[Singlespeed]

CTH5589 shows what it shows. It is accurate until someone disputes it through the proper procedure. The boundary matches that of CT3311 'Station Hill' to the north. It shows the six plots carved out and sold to Mr Booth. It doesn't match mapped features particularly well. That may be an OS surveying error, a title drafting error or a title based on an earlier, less accurate or different OS survey. I guess this area wasn't surveyed at 25" to the mile!

Your correct that CTH5589 does share the same boundary line as CTH3311. But there's a supplementary plan which goes with the title (and all of the previous Lochdhu Estate parcels of land on the northern side of the railway). The supplementary plans show a perimeter fence line installed by Fountain Forestry around the whole block of forestry. The fence line is show as a green line on the ROS site if you search for CTH3984 Raphan. You will see the fence followed the railway and around the goods yard.

When Fountain Forestry was being dissolved, the plot boundary maps were marked as "for reference". However the map of "Altnabreac" is a perfect match for the registration of CTH5589.
Had FF accurately surveyed and drawn up a taxative plan, Station House should have retained some garden along side the platform, as per the BR sale. But the station access road and goods yards should have been excluded from that plan.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I got on a number 18 London bus after flagging it down and the bus driver, politely, chuckled and informed me I didn't need to signal for buses in London. Way to stand out as a northerner!

London used to have two types of bus stop: a compulsory bus stop where everything had to stop (red roundel on white background), and a request stop (white roundel on red background) where it only had to stop if it was hailed. They did away with the distinction and made them all request stops, but using the red-on-white. Older drivers will still remember the compulsory stops, I'm sure.

Maybe that's the solution here. Make Altnabreac a compulsory stop and make sure it is safe for all users by installing whistle boards right by the cottage. Beep beep.

 

[styles]

Maybe that's the solution here. Make Altnabreac a compulsory stop and make sure it is safe for all users by installing whistle boards right by the cottage. Beep beep.

The couple already allege that early morning drivers (or a single driver) has been using the horn to annoy them. Amusing as it may seem to some, I'd agree with the couple that it's not appropriate, and could even be considered harassment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

London used to have two types of bus stop: a compulsory bus stop where everything had to stop (red roundel on white background), and a request stop (white roundel on red background) where it only had to stop if it was hailed. They did away with the distinction and made them all request stops, but using the red-on-white. Older drivers will still remember the compulsory stops, I'm sure.

It's a German style halfway house now. You need to use the bell to alight, but if the driver sees someone at the stop they are supposed to stop, you don't have to hail.

I suspect that's how most railway request stops (such as this) are actually treated to be honest, particularly where failure to put your hand out would leave a 4 hour wait. Though I also don't doubt (a) that they recognise specific people and where they're likely to be going, and (b) that some drivers would conveniently omit to stop if it was these two who were waiting. Didn't see you, soz!

 

[styles]

I suspect that's how most railway request stops (such as this) are actually treated to be honest, particularly where failure to put your hand out would leave a 4 hour wait.

I think that's very likely. I use request stops occasionally and I've pondered before what would happen if I just stood behind the tactile paving on the platform and didn't stick an arm out. I'm sure the train would stop, unless the driver could tell it was just somebody mending to the planters or something. They've already had to slow down to prepare to stop, and I think there's a general acceptance that a lot of people either don't know they're at a request stop or don't know what the 'preferred' way of flagging a train to stop at a request stop is.

 

[The exile]

I think that's very likely. I use request stops occasionally and I've pondered before what would happen if I just stood behind the tactile paving on the platform and didn't stick an arm out. I'm sure the train would stop, unless the driver could tell it was just somebody mending to the planters or something. They've already had to slow down to prepare to stop, and I think there's a general acceptance that a lot of people either don't know they're at a request stop or don't know what the 'preferred' way of flagging a train to stop at a request stop is.

There are of course differences between a railway request stop and a bus request stop. Given their nature (usually remote) it is unlikely that anyone on a railway platform (not wielding a camera) is there not only to catch a train - but to catch that train. Many bus stops are served by different routes so it is far more likely that the person at the bus stop doesn’t want the first bus that comes (or indeed isn’t even waiting for a bus at all).

 

[Trainbike46]

The couple already allege that early morning drivers (or a single driver) has been using the horn to annoy them. Amusing as it may seem to some, I'd agree with the couple that it's not appropriate, and could even be considered harassment.

Obviously drivers should not be using the horn unnecessarily, but at the same time, if there is a safety reason to use the horn they should.

If there has been regular horn use, there may well have been a good reason for it unrelated to the residents of the station house

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that's very likely. I use request stops occasionally and I've pondered before what would happen if I just stood behind the tactile paving on the platform and didn't stick an arm out. I'm sure the train would stop, unless the driver could tell it was just somebody mending to the planters or something. They've already had to slow down to prepare to stop, and I think there's a general acceptance that a lot of people either don't know they're at a request stop or don't know what the 'preferred' way of flagging a train to stop at a request stop is.

Plus in the case of Altnabreac going south the train doesn't get to see the platform for very long before arriving at it due to the curve and trees, it's only a few seconds, so they will probably stop if in doubt rather than spending the time to analyse what the potential passenger is doing.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The couple already allege that early morning drivers (or a single driver) has been using the horn to annoy them. Amusing as it may seem to some, I'd agree with the couple that it's not appropriate, and could even be considered harassment.

As we all know from the YouTube escapades, there's a user-worked level crossing just to the south of the station. I would say it was perfectly reasonable to use the horn heading south at that location, and the first train of the day is a southbound train.

File their complaints under "shouldn't have bought a house next to a railway line."

 

[Haywain]

and the first train of the day is a southbound train.

And it's due to pass at 07:17, not unreasonably early in the morning

 

[styles]

As we all know from the YouTube escapades, there's a user-worked level crossing just to the south of the station. I would say it was perfectly reasonable to use the horn heading south at that location, and the first train of the day is a southbound train.

File their complaints under "shouldn't have bought a house next to a railway line."

Sure but if they've spent years not using the horn on approach, then started using it on approach after the couple have instigated legal action, and have since stopped even, which appears to be what happened (though none of us live there to witness it) I think that's a bit of a different story.

 

[Haywain]

Sure but if they've spent years not using the horn on approach, then started using it on approach after the couple have instigated legal action, and have since stopped even, which appears to be what happened (though none of us live there to witness it) I think that's a bit of a different story.

Or perhaps they started due to the couple starting to stand on the railway line.

 

[styles]

Plus in the case of Altnabreac going south the train doesn't get to see the platform for very long before arriving at it due to the curve and trees, it's only a few seconds, so they will probably stop if in doubt rather than spending the time to analyse what the potential passenger is doing.

Quite. I was at Bodorgan last week and thought actually a lot of passengers in bad weather might stay behind a wall or in the waiting shelter until the train was quite close, and at that point if a person emerged they would surely stop the train just to be on the safe side. The service is two-hourly so missing a passenger would be really inconvenient, especially later in the day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2026 ==

Or perhaps they started due to the couple starting to stand on the railway line.

If the sequence of events from this videos is true, they claim that on the day of stopping the trains one of the drivers made reference to the morning horn use, which suggests it predates them standing on the crossing. If it were after these events, I'd totally agree.

 

[Tetchytyke]

but if they've spent years not using the horn on approach, then started using it on approach after the couple have instigated legal action, and have since stopped even, which appears to be what happened (though none of us live there to witness it) I think that's a bit of a different story.

I would take anything they say with a pinch of salt. They appear to have a somewhat tenuous grasp on reality and they seem determined to find conspiracy and collusion in even the most mundane of interactions. Blowing the horn 200 yards before a user-worked level crossing doesn't seem unreasonable.

And as @Haywain points out, they also now know that there's some doofus at that location who likes to play in the four-foot.

I can't imagine that the drivers are particularly upset at disturbing the couple, but that doesn't mean they're doing it deliberately to annoy them.

 

[najaB]

Sure but if they've spent years not using the horn on approach, then started using it on approach after the couple have instigated legal action, and have since stopped even, which appears to be what happened (though none of us live there to witness it) I think that's a bit of a different story.

There's a history of people obstructing the level crossing, so it makes sense to use the horn just in case.

 

[norbitonflyer]

If the sequence of events from this videos is true, they claim that on the day of stopping the trains one of the drivers made reference to the morning horn use, which suggests it predates them standing on the crossing. If it were after these events, I'd totally agree.

Shortly before the day the comment was allegedly made (1st March 2024), the safety equipment at the crossing had been vandalised. It can be seen in the videos that the signs instructing people how to use the crossing were missing (although the poles to which they had been attached were still there) and the telephones vehicle users were supposed to use to contact the signaller could been seen lying in a ditch. Consequently, drivers had to traet is an an unctrolled crossing, at which it is mandatory to sound the horn on approach. It also required traisn to approach the crossing at caution, so a temporary speed restriction of 20mph was imposed.

So the underlying cause of the trains sounding their horns was the person who removed that safety equipment.

L:ikewise, it is standard practice to sound the horn when approaching a platform at which the train is not going to stop - which included every train in 2024.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2026 ==

There's a history of people obstructing the level crossing, so it makes sense to use the horn just in case.

There wasn't until 1/3/24

 

[styles]

Shortly before the day the comment was allegedly made (1st March 2024), the safety equipment at the crossing had been vandalised.

Is there a source for this? I'm finding in this case that there's actually a lot of rumours. If people read this thread they'll find claims that there were request to stop buttons for example, but these aren't actually backed up with evidence and are in many cases refuted with evidence from the cottage owners (whether people agree with them or not).

t can be seen in the videos that the signs instructing people how to use the crossing were missing (although the poles to which they had been attached were still there) and the telephones vehicle users were supposed to use to contact the signaller could been seen lying in a ditch. Consequently, drivers had to traet is an an unctrolled crossing, at which it is mandatory to sound the horn on approach. It also required traisn to approach the crossing at caution, so a temporary speed restriction of 20mph was imposed.

So the underlying cause of the trains sounding their horns was the person who removed that safety equipment.

Potentially, but does the rule book require a horn at every uncontrolled crossing? I'm not a driver so I don't know this in detail.

Do we also know the date the equipment was vandalised, the date the horning near the station started, and the date of the video?

L:ikewise, it is standard practice to sound the horn when approaching a platform at which the train is not going to stop - which included every train in 2024.

Is this part of the rule book? If so then that blows their claim out of the water! But it seems as though the horn wasn't blown for years, until the couple started a dispute. If that's the case, I would circle back round to this being inappropriate, even if some people think it's some just consequence of the couple's actions.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Is this part of the rule book? If so then that blows their claim out of the water! But it seems as though the horn wasn't blown for years, until the couple started a dispute. If that's the case, I would circle back round to this being inappropriate, even if some people think it's some just consequence of the couple's actions.

(Regarding whistling for stations to be passed through without stopping.) No, it's not in the rulebook. But it is considered good practice, especially if passing through at speed.

Not to get too morbid but, besides warning people a train is approaching, one reason to do so is to remind a potential suicide victim that there is a person driving that train.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Is there a source for this? I'm finding in this case that there's actually a lot of rumours. If people read this thread they'll find claims that there were request to stop buttons for example, but these aren't actually backed up with evidence and are in many cases refuted with evidence from the cottage owners (whether people agree with them or not).

That was based on information in wikipedia (I know!) It has now been amended. It was certainly the intention to install them in 2023, but was foiled by the actions of Ms Howe. Some sources suggested the work in March 2025 was to install them, but in fact only the bare minumum (eg tactile paving) was done to get the station open

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2026 ==

Potentially, but does the rule book require a horn at every uncontrolled crossing? .

I don't know, but it seems a sensible preacaution where the safety equipment is known to be out of order. (Hence also the temporary speed restriction)

As for sounding the horn when passing a platform, it seems to be common practice if not actually mandated.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2026 ==

Do we also know the date the equipment was vandalised, and the date of the video?

The date of the video is stated in the video itself to be 1 March 2024, the day the couple were arrested.

We don't know when the equipment was vandalised, but it was certainly inoperable on the day the trains were stopped, as it can be seen from the same video that the telephones were lying in the ditch and the poles on which the signs should have been can be seen to be bare. Earlier videos show everything to have been correctly placed, so they had been removed at some stage before 1/3/24

 

[styles]

What I'm getting from recent comments is that there isn't actually a justification for routinely blowing the horn and even if there were, it should've applied for years either side.

I'm not giving an opinion on the couple and their behaviour but if the horn has been used since the started of their dispute and ceased towards the end (Ian Appleby himself says he has a log), then I think that's inappropriate, regardless of what I think about the couple.

 

[The exile]

Linking the horn sounding to the request stop status, quite often when I’ve been flagging down trains at request stops a quick sound of the horn has signified “I’ve seen you”. Bit unlikely that there’d be that many intending passengers at Altnabreac at 07.17 though.

 

[35B]

(Regarding whistling for stations to be passed through without stopping.) No, it's not in the rulebook. But it is considered good practice, especially if passing through at speed.

Not to get too morbid but, besides warning people a train is approaching, one reason to do so is to remind a potential suicide victim that there is a person driving that train.

It's rather different to Altnabreac, but waiting at Grantham, passing trains do not blow their horns despite coming through at speed. I suspect customs vary

 

[norbitonflyer]

. Bit unlikely that there’d be that many intending passengers at Altnabreac at 07.17 though.

Especially as the station had been clsoed for nearly five months. In any case, even if it was open, the timetable does not show ABC (or Scotscalder) as calls (even with an "x" in the time) for the first southbound train - the one that passes at 0717.

It would appear that the ABC duo did not try to stop this first train - sunrise in Caithness on March 1st is at about 0710, and the first train they did stop was in broad daylight.