Short Fare, Invalid Rail Card

[skyhigh]

It looks like the member of staff has made a mistake charging you the fare. It can make prosecution void.

For the single journey where the OP was stopped.

They can still research history and aim to collect a fee to cover these. SWR and GWR have previously made civil claims so that avenue can't be ruled out, which has a much lower bar to clear than a criminal prosecution.

 

[taylorswift13]

For the single journey where the OP was stopped.

They can still research history and aim to collect a few to cover these. SWR and GWR have previously made civil claims so that avenue can't be ruled out, which has a much lower bar to clear than a criminal prosecution.

How would they know that I was even on the train of the ticket I bought?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2025 ==

How would they know that I was even on the train of the ticket I bought? Out of 120-130 Tickets I bought, I used liek 100 of it.

 

[AlterEgo]

How would they know that I was even on the train of the ticket I bought?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Oct 2025 ==

It would be a reasonable assumption in a civil claim unless you were able to demonstrate otherwise. That is, to provide evidence of it.

 

[taylorswift13]

It would be a reasonable assumption in a civil claim unless you were able to demonstrate otherwise. That is, to provide evidence of

Please What is the difference between civil claim and out of court settlement?

 

[Titfield]

Please What is the difference between civil claim and out of court settlement?

A civil claim is when legal action is taken against you to recover monies owed by you in a civil court (as opposed to a criminal court).

An out of court settlement is when you agree to pay a sum of money you owe to a person or company without the person or company you owe money to taking you to the civil court.

An out of court settlement is a private settlement and does not appear on a public record.

 

[jfollows]

If you commit a criminal offence, such as many railway offences, you can be tried in criminal court, found guilty if the case can be proven beyond reasonable doubt, and have some kind of criminal record. And pay a fine and costs.

If they pursue you for money, this can be argued in civil court, and if on the balance of probabilities the court finds against you, you can be ordered to pay, plus costs, but there is no criminal record because it’s not a crime, it’s just a dispute between two parties. If you don’t pay, this will be recorded and used by anyone you might ask for some kind of credit in future.

If you settle out of court then neither of these applies. Normally we see the threat of criminal prosecution or take a settlement offer.

 

[taylorswift13]

If you commit a criminal offence, such as many railway offences, you can be tried in criminal court, found guilty if the case can be proven beyond reasonable doubt, and have some kind of criminal record.

If they pursue you for money, this can be argued in civil court, and if on the balance of probabilities the court finds against you, you can be ordered to pay, plus costs, but there is no criminal record because it’s not a crime, it’s just a dispute between two parties. If you don’t pay, this will be recorded and used by anyone you might ask for some kind of credit in future.

If you settle out of court then neither of these applies. Normally we see the threat of criminal prosecution or take a settlement offer.

Does this mean as many as my offences according to my trainline account (which I mentioned about 120 something) so I am certainly going to be in the court for criminal record?


Or I might still have options other wise for civil court or out of court settlement? Which are the most common cases for trainline short fare and invalid Railcard usage?

 

[AlterEgo]

Does this mean as many as my offences according to my trainline account (which I mentioned about 120 something) so I am certainly going to be in the court for criminal record?

No.

Or I might still have options other wise for civil court or out of court settlement? Which are the most common cases for trainline short fare and invalid Railcard usage?

Most likely they ask for the full fare for every single offence in settlement, to keep it out of both civil and criminal court. They could in theory make a civil claim against you, but an out of court settlement would stop that. Either way, it may end up being very expensive for you.

 

[MotCO]

From the train company's perspective, if they take you to Court, they will incur some legal costs and any compensation payment the Court asks you to make to them the Court will decide the value.

If they agree to ask you for an Out of Court settlement, the train company decide how much to ask you for, and they keep it all.

Thus from a train company's perspective, they would rather settle Out of Court, provided you engage with them, and they are confident that you will not reoffend.

 

[taylorswift13]

No.


Most likely they ask for the full fare for every single offence in settlement, to keep it out of both civil and criminal court. They could in theory make a civil claim against you, but an out of court settlement would stop that. Either way, it may end up being very expensive for you.

For me, I might include all the train company possible because I travel to alot of places but mostly within UK. So Will I get different letter from each company? Or Will I just get one? Mostly used one with southern railways? from Riddlesdown to London Victoria. GWR once. So Do I have to ask out of court settlement from each one? Please I know it's bad but I am never doing anything again.

 

[jfollows]

Just one.
Once you are investigated they will investigate on behalf of all train operating companies.

 

[taylorswift13]

Once you are investigated they will investigate on behalf of all train operating companies.

Just to update that I have bought redirect service for royal mail, I also changed my address on the bank for my new address. Are there any precautions to avoid missing the letter.

 

[notmyrealname]

Not strictly connected with rail companies but if you have a driving licence you should update that, it's free online. And if you have a car you need to update the V5C.

 

[taylorswift13]

It would be a reasonable assumption in a civil claim unless you were able to demonstrate otherwise. That is, to provide evidence of it.

Hello, Sorry

I have an another question. I was reading another similar thread to mine. For that person, they gave them a "report of prosecution" or any type of report, or they must have ask for some sort of details. For me, I have not even provided with any details and was asked any questions rather than asking me to admit that if I am doing short fare or using invalid ticket. Which I lied for a bit but when he said he will let me go if I am honest so I admitted to it and he started saying he will report me to trainline to check me history. Then he made me pay for the full travel ticket from Feltham to Reading. Then I was panicking so I followed him, I asked him what will happen to me, he said he will report me as I lied. Then said they will check my ticket history and put everything in the report, and not to worry for today as nothing is going to happen. Then he said I have nothing to worry if the train ticket before are valid, I lied and said I have nothing, he said then there is nothing to worry about. Then I walked away. I did not get any report, anything except my ticket being scanned. Is there any chance that he might not report at all or literally scaring me?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Oct 2025 ==

Hello, Sorry

I have an another question. I was reading another similar thread to mine. For that person, they gave them a "report of prosecution" or any type of report, or they must have ask for some sort of details. For me, I have not even provided with any details and was asked any questions rather than asking me to admit that if I am doing short fare or using invalid ticket. Which I lied for a bit but when he said he will let me go if I am honest so I admitted to it and he started saying he will report me to trainline to check me history. Then he made me pay for the full travel ticket from Feltham to Reading. Then I was panicking so I followed him, I asked him what will happen to me, he said he will report me as I lied. Then said they will check my ticket history and put everything in the report, and not to worry for today as nothing is going to happen. Then he said I have nothing to worry if the train ticket before are valid, I lied and said I have nothing, he said then there is nothing to worry about. Then I walked away. I did not get any report, anything except my ticket being scanned. Is there any chance that he might not report at all or literally scaring me?

Anyone any suggestions?

 

[taylorswift13]

I was faced with a inspector on 1 Oct. Since then I have never received any response from them. I have been doing short fare with invalid rail card for 2 years mostly within London. I was on the way to reading during this time.

They did not take any of my details or my name, did not take any witness statements, did not write anything down, but told me they will write it down and send it to train-line to inspect. They only scanned my ticket and asked me to buy the full ticket fare. They also tell me to admit to my short fare and they said they will let me go. I was really apologetic but they caught both of short fare and invalid ticket.

Is it a scaring method or are they actually going to do inspections? I am really anxious. Please help. I would need help when I receive my letter, I have changed redirection for the royal mail since I moved my house recently.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I was faced with a inspector on 1 Oct. Since then I have never received any response from them. I have been doing short fare with invalid rail card for 2 years mostly within London. I was on the way to reading during this time.

They did not take any of my details or my name, did not take any witness statements, did not write anything down, but told me they will write it down and send it to train-line to inspect. They only scanned my ticket and asked me to buy the full ticket fare. They also tell me to admit to my short fare and they said they will let me go. I was really apologetic but they caught both of short fare and invalid ticket.

Is it a scaring method or are they actually going to do inspections? I am really anxious. Please help. I would need help when I receive my letter, I have changed redirection for the royal mail since I moved my house recently.

This looks as if it's about the same incident as your previous thread, so I will ask the admins to merge them so everything is in one place.

On your substantive question, you will have to wait to find out if the railway follow things up. It seems you had your ticket on your phone: scanning it will make the connection with how you bought the ticket and give at least your card details - and quite likely your email and physical address

In practice, the railway have six months to decide what to do, and it looks as if they are quite busy at the moment. So it may be nearer six months than one before you hear from them.

 

[taylorswift13]

This looks as if it's about the same incident as your previous thread, so I will ask the admins to merge them so everything is in one place.

On your substantive question, you will have to wait to find out if the railway follow things up. It seems you had your ticket on your phone: scanning it will make the connection with how you bought the ticket and give at least your card details - and quite likely your email and physical address

In practice, the railway have six months to decide what to do, and it looks as if they are quite busy at the moment. So it may be nearer six months than one before you hear from them.

But shouldn’t they write down what they are saying and my response is? They didn’t even do that. If I ever missed the letter, how do I challenge it? I moved to a house where you are to go through alley way and it is at the back of the houses. My recent two delivery orders, one went to my correct address as it is small but the other one they just gave it to a random house but I got it back due to delivery proof pictures.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If I ever missed the letter, how do I challenge it?

If it turns out that the whole thing went to court without you knowing about it, there us a procedure for you tomake what is called a 'statutory declaration ' so that the court case can be rerun. So if (a) the railway gave tried to take things forward AND (b) all the letters never reached you, there's a way to sort it out.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

But shouldn’t they write down what they are saying and my response is?

They don't need to read you your rights and note what you say.

You were caught in the act and they say they have raised your account for further investigation. Was it a Train Manager rather than a Revenue Manager by any chance? Some staff aren't able to issue Penalty Fares or MG11 reports and so will make you pay for the journey you are making and then flag your account. I believe they have decided to send your fraudulent ticket to the back office Prosecution Team to investigate your purchase history.

You will be very lucky not to hear anything from them given the very large scale of your misdemeanor. GWR have a recent record of not processing these investigations in good time and then relying of Civil Claims against individuals - you will still have the option to engage and obtain an out of court settlement, hopefully you have seen the error of your ways and have now ceased your poor behaviour.

 

[KirkstallOne]

You are just going to have to wait and see I am afraid. They have 6 months in which they could prosecute, typically they would threaten prosecution unless you pay them a settlement for all fares they deem suspicious.

After that they have as long as they want to make a civil claim, see here for an example of GWR being so delayed in their investigations that they can only threaten a civil claim:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/settlement-offer-over-a-year-after-the-incident.293087/

Of course if your trainline account doesn’t link to your identity in any way then they may not be able to trace you but no-one here is going to be able to state when and if that would be the case, it would be at best speculation without detailed knowledge of their procedures.

If and when you hear from them come back to this thread for further advice. Needless to say, you have to stop committing ticketing offences as each one just pushes the 6 month date at which you are ‘in the clear’ (from a criminal aspect) into the future.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Oct 2025 ==

A report that the inspector fills in and sends to the prosecution team

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2025 ==

This thread is even clearer, they can’t charge the passenger at the time, and then prosecute later:

Penalty fare notice

Hello Today I was stopped by the railway inspector and I had bought a 16-25 ticket instead of a 16-25 one, he asked me for my name and address which I gave to him and then he looked at my trip history. He saw that I have bought the tickets on 16-17 for 10 times before which i bought 16-25 up to...

www.railforums.co.uk

I’m not sure the situations are comparable.

In one, a PF was issued for a ticketing offence. The PF was paid, ending any dispute about that particular journey meaning the ToC can’t then come back and say, actually we think you have done this loads of times so we will prosecute you for the PF incident unless you pay up. The PF regulations have specific rules about when and if criminal offences can be charged in relation to the same instance that gave rise to the PF.

In this incident a ticket was bought, but that doesn’t obviously impact the fact OP admitted committing a criminal offence by boarding without a ticket in the first place, in fact it appears they likely admitted intent to evade their fare. Seems the ToC could still prosecute for these offences they just wouldn’t be able to claim compensation for the fare owing.

 

[taylorswift13]

They don't need to read you your rights and note what you say.

You were caught in the act and they say they have raised your account for further investigation. Was it a Train Manager rather than a Revenue Manager by any chance? Some staff aren't able to issue Penalty Fares or MG11 reports and so will make you pay for the journey you are making and then flag your account. I believe they have decided to send your fraudulent ticket to the back office Prosecution Team to investigate your purchase history.

You will be very lucky not to hear anything from them given the very large scale of your misdemeanor. GWR have a recent record of not processing these investigations in good time and then relying of Civil Claims against individuals - you will still have the option to engage and obtain an out of court settlement, hopefully you have seen the error of your ways and have now ceased your poor behaviour.

Would the Civil Claims goes on my record? I read about this but it is still unclear to me how it is different to out of court settlement. The train was feltham to reading . It was not on GWR train.

 

[jfollows]

A losing civil claim is only recorded against you if you do not pay the amount the court rules within 30 days.

 

[taylorswift13]

A losing civil claim is only recorded against you if you do not pay the amount the court rules within 30 days.

A losing civil claim is only recorded against you if you do not pay the amount the court rules within 30 days.

Does it mean that civil claims is more likely than out of court settlement? Or they would still do civil claim after out of court settlement?

 

[Titfield]

No it does not.

Railway Companies prefer to offer (and have accepted) out of court settlements because (a) they keep all the money agreed to be paid (b) it looks less heavy handed than taking people to court.

If you are offered, accept and then pay in full the out of court settlement then the matter is finished. The only record kept is the one the company and you keep.

A civil claim is a court process. An out of court settlement is a private agreement between the railway company and the individual concerned.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

A losing civil claim is only recorded against you if you do not pay the amount the court rules within 30 days.

They have a six month window to threaten a prosecution in the criminal courts. In many cases, they will accept a settlement out of court. It's when they don't take action within six months that they may resort to civil action.

 

[35B]

Does it mean that civil claims is more likely than out of court settlement? Or they would still do civil claim after out of court settlement?

The company have four choices they can make:
1. Do nothing.
2. Agree an out of court settlement - in other words, agree not to take any further legal action against you in return for your promise of good conduct and payment of a settlement.
3. Prosecute you for a criminal offence through the criminal courts. They must do this ("lay the papers before the court") within 6 months of the incident.
4. Pursue you through the civil courts to pay the money you owe them. This is much less time pressured, and we are now seeing some railway companies do this where they do not start a criminal case within 6 months.

The experience here is that most companies, most of the time, follow a mix of options 2 and 3, threatening prosecution (3) but then being willing to agree a deal (2). There are a few examples on here of companies (especially GWR) following Option 4, before again agreeing a settlement. Once they have agreed a deal, and you have paid, the matter is closed and you face no further action.

Given your particular concerns about criminal conviction, you need to understand that it is only option 3 that would give you a criminal conviction. Being ordered by a civil court to pay a settlement is not recorded in the same way, so long (as @jfollows has said) you pay the amounts the judge orders you to in good time.

 

[taylorswift13]

The company have four choices they can make:
1. Do nothing.
2. Agree an out of court settlement - in other words, agree not to take any further legal action against you in return for your promise of good conduct and payment of a settlement.
3. Prosecute you for a criminal offence through the criminal courts. They must do this ("lay the papers before the court") within 6 months of the incident.
4. Pursue you through the civil courts to pay the money you owe them. This is much less time pressured, and we are now seeing some railway companies do this where they do not start a criminal case within 6 months.

The experience here is that most companies, most of the time, follow a mix of options 2 and 3, threatening prosecution (3) but then being willing to agree a deal (2). There are a few examples on here of companies (especially GWR) following Option 4, before again agreeing a settlement. Once they have agreed a deal, and you have paid, the matter is closed and you face no further action.

Given your particular concerns about criminal conviction, you need to understand that it is only option 3 that would give you a criminal conviction. Being ordered by a civil court to pay a settlement is not recorded in the same way, so long (as @jfollows has said) you pay the amounts the judge orders you to in good time.

Hello Everyone,

I have living with this intense anxiety about this for a while now. The interaction with the officer is on September 29th. I have not received anything from anyone yet. I still do not understand how to would have my details. Would it be with my annon gmail? Bank account? But on what ground are they going to get the details just through the bank details? Why do they not ask me for my name or anything? The officer told me if I have not done much, then I should not worry? All my friends are saying, this is a scare tactic rather than the actual one.

 

[z444z]

Hello Everyone,

I have living with this intense anxiety about this for a while now. The interaction with the officer is on September 29th. I have not received anything from anyone yet. I still do not understand how to would have my details. Would it be with my annon gmail? Bank account? But on what ground are they going to get the details just through the bank details? Why do they not ask me for my name or anything? The officer told me if I have not done much, then I should not worry? All my friends are saying, this is a scare tactic rather than the actual one.

Just wait. They have 6 months to bring a prosecution, so that option will be expiring in late March. If you haven’t had a letter from GWR by then, or a letter from a court by the end of April, then you aren’t being prosecuted.

As others have said, this isn’t one of those cases where it’s certain that you’ll hear from anyone - it’s very possible that you won’t. Keep a close eye on the post as well as any email address linked to your trainline account until the end of April but other than that just do your best to get on with your life imo.

 

[taylorswift13]

Hello Guys,

I haven't received any letter yet 3 months and 28 days for now since the incident. I am worried that it would not go to the right address.

Thanks

 

[Spaceship323]

They will get your name and address from trainline as part of their investigation, as long as your bank have your current address any post will go to the right place