Carousel Buses (Go-Ahead group)

[RELL6L]

Looking at BusTimes it would appear that Scania E400 80226, on the 19.30 from Wycombe to Reading last night, got diverted due to a problem around Sonning and ended up going over Sonning Bridge- which has a 7.5 tonne weight limit, at least for lorries! First time I have seen a bus go that way.

 

[Mgameing123]

Looking at BusTimes it would appear that Scania E400 80226, on the 19.30 from Wycombe to Reading last night, got diverted due to a problem around Sonning and ended up going over Sonning Bridge- which has a 7.5 tonne weight limit, at least for lorries! First time I have seen a bus go that way.

I guess the bus driver didn’t want to finish his shift late

 

[glennds999]

I missed a comma out between That, and the next word, whilst doing it on my iphone, and I had referenced your statement above. Still, if you now wish to have a more considered response...

Some bus industry professionals at Carousel, with a mass of operational data and local experience, have been very busy in developing the business over the last year. They have worked with Bucks CC (and other local authorities) to develop the local bus network and are making a decent fist of it, supported in part by s.106 and BSIP funding where appropriate allied to commercial initiatives.

They have taken a view as to the best and most appropriate use of resources. That equates to understanding the impact on overall usage by the changing of the shoulder or peak frequencies, with cost benefit analysis against placing that resource into the service pattern AND against an ongoing scarcity of drivers (though this is much improved compared to the nadir of 2022). As @Dwarfer1979 states above, it's not about the marginal cost of a driver but the full cost of that resource (and I would suspect that Carousel's costs in that part of the world are considerably higher). As it is, Carousel are (like many operators) having to battle traffic congestion in the peak and adjusting resources/headways as it is e.g. an extra five minutes into every journey between Wycombe and Beaconsfield in the peak.

Thanks - I am open to operating later evening 850 journeys in the medium term, but need to let the existing additions (including the half hourly evening service introduced from 23rd February) build up first.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Aug 2025 ==

I wonder. How are the ex Arriva drivers doing at Carousel. Are they like well accepted into the team or has their been turmoil considering Carousel and Arriva were big rivals.

All drivers are integrated into the team, with the separate rotas introduced (for route knowledge reasons) when the Arriva services were taken over now long merged.

 

[duncombec]

Very impressed to see copies of the new timetables for the 1 group and 850 (due to start on Sunday) at High Wycombe Bus Station on Saturday. I imagine the others (e.g. Wycombe town and "Chiltern Hundreds") had either been taken earlier in the day or hadn't come back from the printers yet, but somewhat refreshing to see them available in advance of the changes - as were copies of the leaflet for the Oxford Bus Airline service.

The smart (branded!) leaflet racks go to show what should be possible in any enclosed bus station: a manned travel shop or enquiry window isn't strictly necessary, but printed information can still be made publicly accessible at all times. Quite a contrast to Heathrow, where the leaflet racks in the "onward travel information" area, or enquiry desks at both terminals and Central Bus Station, were completely empty, despite a number of operators printing leaflets (at least Carousel, White Bus and Reading Buses; possibly others) that could have filled them up.

Some quite acceptable loads on the post 7pm services, too - much though I may have cursed the fact the 8pm 103 departure was a Streetlite coming off one of the town diagrams (rather than the nicer Citaro or E400 options), a load in the high teens/low 20s seemed good going.

 

[route101]

Very impressed to see copies of the new timetables for the 1 group and 850 (due to start on Sunday) at High Wycombe Bus Station on Saturday. I imagine the others (e.g. Wycombe town and "Chiltern Hundreds") had either been taken earlier in the day or hadn't come back from the printers yet, but somewhat refreshing to see them available in advance of the changes - as were copies of the leaflet for the Oxford Bus Airline service.

The smart (branded!) leaflet racks go to show what should be possible in any enclosed bus station: a manned travel shop or enquiry window isn't strictly necessary, but printed information can still be made publicly accessible at all times. Quite a contrast to Heathrow, where the leaflet racks in the "onward travel information" area, or enquiry desks at both terminals and Central Bus Station, were completely empty, despite a number of operators printing leaflets (at least Carousel, White Bus and Reading Buses; possibly others) that could have filled them up.

Some quite acceptable loads on the post 7pm services, too - much though I may have cursed the fact the 8pm 103 departure was a Streetlite coming off one of the town diagrams (rather than the nicer Citaro or E400 options), a load in the high teens/low 20s seemed good going.

Interesting, I am sampling some Carousels services for the first time this weekend. Will look out for printed timetables, I always pick them up. Leeds leave the area where the timetable racks open even if the desks are closed. Sheffield on the other hand is one of the them manned desks where you have to ask for the timetables.

 

[PeterC]

The new Chesham and Amersham routes seem to have started without any serious hitches. A couple of services took wrong turnings at the start of the day but mistakes weren't repeated. Nothing like the issue when Red Rose ran the 71 and drivers steadfastly took the wrong route for a fortnight.

It's a shame that the errors in timetable data for routes 78 and 79 haven't been corrected. Carousel's own site, Google and Bustimes all show the wrong route at one point. At some point I must get over there and see if this is reflected on the bus stops. The PDF map of the route at least is correct

 

[RELL6L]

Just what I was concerned about in post 372. The 17.30 850 from Wycombe to Reading left 37 minutes late. No bus from Wycombe between 17.00 and 17.30. This will not encourage commmuters attracted by the improved service stick with it. Traffic can be awful, breakdowns happen, they need some resilience and contingency. Hopefully a one-off and lessons learned.

The 37 and 10 seemed to have a two hour gap as well but maybe something wasn’t tracking as it doesn’t appear to have been filled at all.

Weird that one bus - today 80209 - seems to run a 41 from Wycombe to Amersham at 08.25, invariably late, and nothing else. Does it do a contract first? I didn’t know there were any but this working seems odd.

 

[sturfc]

The new timetable booklets have appeared this week in Wycombe bus station, as well as individual leaflets for the 1, 41 and 850 which were there previously. The four booklets I have seen are for the following;
Wycombe town routes with The Wycombe Bus Company branding
South Buckinghamshire with Carousel Country branding
Borough Bus (Maidenhead area routes)
Slough & Windor with Carousel Country branding

 

[Mikey C]

I didn't mean to cause such a heated set of when I mused that a couple of extra journeys on the 850 might be 'useful'! First I understand the costs involved, second I agree wholeheartedly that Carousel, with Bucks CC input, have made great improvements to the 850 and all the services around Wycombe and have made a very good fist of operating them reliably, and finally, no I do not want Arriva back! I do not disagree with what anyone has said on this.

My comments was getting at one possible market from Marlow would be to Wycombe and onward connections on the train, as the trains from Marlow are not brilliant. But with the last bus back from Wycombe at 21.30 this cuts out many all-day options, not helped by the bus not going very near the station anyway. This early last bus also cuts out the option of a night out in Wycombe. But I don't think anyone goes to a night out in Wycombe, except to the theatre. That is ruled out using the bus as performances do not finish until well after 21.30 - but probably most people use the car anyway. In fact I suspect far more people come from Wycombe for a night out in Marlow than the other way round. The number of Priuses doing unadvertised U-turns in the road of an evening attests to this. And with the last bus from Marlow to Wycombe around midnight this remains a good option.

What I had wondered was if a low cost option to improve the last bus, at least for a post-theatre option, was to extend a late journey on say the 32A at Booker, which was going straight to the depot, to Marlow, maybe the one leaving the bus station at 22.51. The cost would depend on whether it took the driver's duty or day over the maximum allowed or whether it was just 30 minutes more pay/overtime. And I don't know if it would generate much more revenue - it would need to be advertised in the next iteration of the 850 leaflet. Just a thought!

The 37 (which I used the other day) had a similar evening imbalance. The last southbound bus from Wycombe is at 20:20, whereas the last northbound bus from Windsor is at 22:00, calling at Bourne End at 23:00 and arriving in Wycombe at 23:24, 3 hours after the final southbound departure!

 

[route101]

The new timetable booklets have appeared this week in Wycombe bus station, as well as individual leaflets for the 1, 41 and 850 which were there previously. The four booklets I have seen are for the following;
Wycombe town routes with The Wycombe Bus Company branding
South Buckinghamshire with Carousel Country branding
Borough Bus (Maidenhead area routes)
Slough & Windor with Carousel Country branding

Does a printed exist for the 102 Flightline service to Heathrow?

 

[Andyh82]

Does a printed exist for the 102 Flightline service to Heathrow?

It’s included in the ‘South Buckinghamshire’ timetable along with the other ex-Chiltern Hundreds services

 

[sturfc]

Yes the South Buckinghamshire one, contains the following routes 31, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 581 and 583

 

[Flange Squeal]

Carousel look to be setting up further competition, this time over a more direct Uxbridge to Slough via Iver and Langley route (numbered 458) than their current offering, going up against First Berkshire’s 3. Carousel won’t provide evening or Sunday journeys. Proposed start date is 4 January.

A PDF of the London Service Permit application can be found at https://ehq-production-europe.s3.eu... Route 583 - Route 458 - Permit Variation.pdf

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Carousel look to be setting up further competition, this time over a more direct Uxbridge to Slough via Iver and Langley route (numbered 458) than their current offering, going up against First Berkshire’s 3. Carousel won’t provide evening or Sunday journeys. Proposed start date is 4 January.

A PDF of the London Service Permit application can be found at https://ehq-production-europe.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/4be03d80fe657cdba9ca4e5a2ded6f93cc018084/original/1764334447/11beb510b16b0a245eeec186927c21e9_Carousel Buses Ltd- LSP1051 - Route 583 - Route 458 - Permit Variation.pdf

An odd time to be doing it given that in the last few months First have finally upped their game (with financial encouragement from Bucks) by running a better peak service and operating until midnight. Carousel are mostly fitting neatly into the middle of First's times and it seems following an identical route (Flange Squeal's "more direct" refers to their tortuous 583 route I assume) so will broadly get half the daytime business. Might have expected them to try a different route, perhaps using the A412 missing out Iver village and the long drag through Langley to give quicker end-to-end times and a reason to choose Carousel over First, but there may not be enough of a market for that. Alternatively a modified 583 via Richings Park but skipping the long Wexham Park Hospital diversion could have given Iver station a frequent service at last.

Lovely choice of route number by the way; someone at Carousel has a sense of history.

 

[Bwsbro]

Carousel are introducing a network of Christmas Day Buses on the following routes on Christmas Day

1A - High Wycombe - Chesham
9 - Maidenhead - Carnbrook Drive
32A - Cressex - Mickfield
33 - Totteridge - Desborough Castle
37B - Maidenhead - Windsor
102 - High Wycombe - Heathrow CBS
103 - High Wycombe - Windsor
850 - High Wycombe - Henley on Thames

Christmas Day Timetables

Additionally they will operate journeys on service 111 between Hounslow Godfrey Way and Heathrow CBS, on behalf of Heathrow Airport charging £2 per journey.

This will be the first Christmas Day bus in London in years, and the first to accept cash in over a decade

Christmas Day 111 Timetable

 

[johnsy112]

Carousel are introducing a network of Christmas Day Buses on the following routes on Christmas Day

1A - High Wycombe - Chesham
9 - Maidenhead - Carnbrook Drive
32A - Cressex - Mickfield
33 - Totteridge - Desborough Castle
37B - Maidenhead - Windsor
102 - High Wycombe - Heathrow CBS
103 - High Wycombe - Windsor
850 - High Wycombe - Henley on Thames

Christmas Day Timetables

Additionally they will operate journeys on service 111 between Hounslow Godfrey Way and Heathrow CBS, on behalf of Heathrow Airport charging £2 per journey.

This will be the first Christmas Day bus in London in years, and the first to accept cash in over a decade

Christmas Day 111 Timetable

Except The 102 and the 111, what on earth is the point?

 

[Parebunks]

Except The 102 and the 111, what on earth is the point?

It really is quite odd, especially given that it's shared management with Oxford Bus who aren't running anything at all in the much better bus territory of Oxford. Contrast the Christmas service on the 37 (normally hourly) with the offering on the Oxford 1/5 (normally every 5 minutes) and it really does seem peculiar. Last year IIRC Carousel also ran a service on the 102 and a special 724, but expanding to non-airport routes rather unexpected.

 

[Mikey C]

Services to Windsor so that people can go and watch the Royals going to church on Christmas Day?

 

[Bwsbro]

It really is quite odd, especially given that it's shared management with Oxford Bus who aren't running anything at all in the much better bus territory of Oxford. Contrast the Christmas service on the 37 (normally hourly) with the offering on the Oxford 1/5 (normally every 5 minutes) and it really does seem peculiar. Last year IIRC Carousel also ran a service on the 102 and a special 724, but expanding to non-airport routes rather unexpected.

The 102 never ran on Christmas Day only Boxing Day & New Year’s Day.

The 724 Boxing Day & New Years Day shuttle service was operated under contract to Heathrow, having previously been operated by Thames Valley Buses. These will run again this year as 725 however unclear as to who will operate this

 

[Parebunks]

The 102 never ran on Christmas Day only Boxing Day & New Year’s Day.

The 724 Boxing Day & New Years Day shuttle service was operated under contract to Heathrow, having previously been operated by Thames Valley Buses. These will run again this year as 725 however unclear as to who will operate this

Thanks for the correction, makes the scale of the Christmas operation this year even odder.

 

[Mgameing123]

Except The 102 and the 111, what on earth is the point?

I guess to provide people who have to work on Christmas Day or who want to visit family to possibility to travel?

 

[SteveHFC]

Services to Windsor so that people can go and watch the Royals going to church on Christmas Day?

Except the Royal Family spend Christmas at Sandringham.

 

[johnsy112]

I guess to provide people who have to work on Christmas Day or who want to visit family to possibility to travel?

Very helpful reply, I forgot to factor in the myriad of workers who live in Cranbrook Drive, rushing into Maidenhead for their Xmas day commute. There is no demand for any of the routes, except again as I mentioned before the two Heathrow routes.

 

[Mgameing123]

Very helpful reply, I forgot to factor in the myriad of workers who live in Cranbrook Drive, rushing into Maidenhead for their Xmas day commute. There is no demand for any of the routes, except again as I mentioned before the two Heathrow routes.

Even if the buses aren't running with many passengers that day, it's a good innitiative for Carousel to increase marketshare.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Even if the buses aren't running with many passengers that day, it's a good innitiative for Carousel to increase marketshare.

How are they increasing market share?

 

[Mark L]

Even if the buses aren't running with many passengers that day, it's a good innitiative for Carousel to increase marketshare.

Given that the depot will be open to provide buses for the 102 and 111 the additional services only need to cover their marginal costs to make them worth operating. It’s still a fairly bold move in an area that isn’t normally seen as good bus operating territory!

The Maidenhead town service on Route 9 is interworked with the 37B (Windsor - Maidenhead).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==

Thanks for the correction, makes the scale of the Christmas operation this year even odder.

Arriva will operate the 725.

 

[Mgameing123]

Given that the depot will be open to provide buses for the 102 and 111 the additional services only need to cover their marginal costs to make them worth operating. It’s still a fairly bold move in an area that isn’t normally seen as good bus operating territory!

The Maidenhead town service on Route 9 is interworked with the 37B (Windsor - Maidenhead).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==


Arriva will operate the 725.

Yeah it looks like they want to keep buses as interworked as possible, 850 looks like it will also be interworked with 1A aswell.

So I hope that these services will be a succes.

 

[duncombec]

I think the more curious thing for me is not that Carousel are running, it's that they are running and Oxford Bus aren't. They presumably have their reasons, though, which may not be obvious to those of us not party to any background discussions - either on service provision or who is paying.

Some routes are clearly to aid interworking to avoid the drivers sitting around doing nothing for 40-odd minutes, for example, and others may be based on ticket data (e.g. a strong flow between Chesham and Heathrow, so let's run a 1A as well as a 102, for example)... or they could just be chancing their arm. Perhaps they asked for volunteers and got plenty, whilst Oxford Bus got very few, so ran services to fit? (It's no less plausible than coming up at random, as some seem to be suggesting). After all... if the depot has to be open anyway to run the Heathrow services, why not give it a go? Perhaps Heathrow are paying enough that the local services can be funded at minimal or no extra cost!

Sometimes, though, running a service does generate patronage in and of itself. Before Covid, Arriva Kent ran service 700 between Chatham and Bluewater as the first ever Boxing Day bus. At that time, it interworked with my local route regularly on Sundays, as the half-hourly service led to a long layover at one end, whereas it could be plausibly interworked and "keep the wheels turning". Rather than rewrite the timetable, they just used "Sundays" and kept it as it was, despite the need fort extra buses and drivers. Whilst the numbers at my end were hardly more than a passenger or two per journey, and heavily "flowed", fares were still taken... and it must have worked, because it was repeated the following year. And let us not forget that bastion of unlikely Christmas Day buses, the Isle of Wight...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think the more curious thing for me is not that Carousel are running, it's that they are running and Oxford Bus aren't. They presumably have their reasons, though, which may not be obvious to those of us not party to any background discussions - either on service provision or who is paying.

Some routes are clearly to aid interworking to avoid the drivers sitting around doing nothing for 40-odd minutes, for example, and others may be based on ticket data (e.g. a strong flow between Chesham and Heathrow, so let's run a 1A as well as a 102, for example)... or they could just be chancing their arm. Perhaps they asked for volunteers and got plenty, whilst Oxford Bus got very few, so ran services to fit? (It's no less plausible than coming up at random, as some seem to be suggesting). After all... if the depot has to be open anyway to run the Heathrow services, why not give it a go? Perhaps Heathrow are paying enough that the local services can be funded at minimal or no extra cost!

Sometimes, though, running a service does generate patronage in and of itself. Before Covid, Arriva Kent ran service 700 between Chatham and Bluewater as the first ever Boxing Day bus. At that time, it interworked with my local route regularly on Sundays, as the half-hourly service led to a long layover at one end, whereas it could be plausibly interworked and "keep the wheels turning". Rather than rewrite the timetable, they just used "Sundays" and kept it as it was, despite the need fort extra buses and drivers. Whilst the numbers at my end were hardly more than a passenger or two per journey, and heavily "flowed", fares were still taken... and it must have worked, because it was repeated the following year. And let us not forget that bastion of unlikely Christmas Day buses, the Isle of Wight...

Some of the interworking is pretty obvious like the 37B and 9 though that begs the question how they cover breaks so a crew ferry will be required. And yes, there is the argument that it's marginal costs when perhaps some services are already running (like the 102) but those marginal costs are likely to be considerably higher than usual.

It is certainly a very bold introduction. Nothing wrong with testing the market but just a little surprising with the scale of things.

 

[Statto]

Interesting the 32A is every 30 minutes were as everything else is every hour, although the 102/103 combine to every 30 minutes High Wycombe - Beaconsfield