Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[LowLevel]

There is a display stand for the Aurora train on the concourse at Nottingham station. Not sure when this went up but would have been in the past week.

View attachment 192910

Early hours of yesterday morning.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I doubt that. If they were local trains with frequent stops, yes, but running non-stop from (e.g.) Leicester to London? A brand new train with people p***ing in the corner? No catering of course, you couldn't serve people coffee etc. with no toilets.

Is it all the toilets on the train, or just one?

 

[duffield]

Is it all the toilets on the train, or just one?

Somewhere I can't locate now it was stated that toilets were always failing after exactly two flushes, which sounds like a possible common (?software) fault, so I'm assuming it probably affects all the toilets - but that is an assumption, which could be wrong.

 

[liamf656]

It does seem to be a damp squib into entry. I do want to get one soon. Given they're slightly different do they still habe the convoluted inner flap that other 8xx trains have when you need the ramp?

Yes they do

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Nov 2025 ==

No 810 diagrammed tomorrow (27/11), DY701 will be a 222

 

[PHWO]

According to that X account - the toilets flush twice and then fail - and no one can fathom why.

James Bond new film - "Aurora, you only flush twice"

 

[Railperf]

Today (Thurs 27 November) 222 7-car still running today.
This raises serious questions about the acceptance, testing and planning for service entry processes.
1. How can anyone accept the trains without properly working toilets. Do they walk round and flush them once only and say that's okay? I wonder what the testing regime is?
2. How long ago was this problem known about, and how did anyone plan to put this into a service diagram before the issue was resolved? Aiming for service entry is one thing, but planning a specific diagram and having all the right staff in the right places is a big step to take when the train has a fundamental issue with such an essential passenger service.
If the claims that this has been a headache for months are true, I cannot understand how anyone could plan a soft or hard service entry launch. I really can't. I don't know if these loos are fitted on site or a complete module that gets lifted in. Is it possible that after requiring new wiring looms, these trains now need new WC modules?

 

[800001]

Today (Thurs 27 November) 222 7-car still running today.
This raises serious questions about the acceptance, testing and planning for service entry processes.
1. How can anyone accept the trains without properly working toilets. Do they walk round and flush them once only and say that's okay? I wonder what the testing regime is?
2. How long ago was this problem known about, and how did anyone plan to put this into a service diagram before the issue was resolved? Aiming for service entry is one thing, but planning a specific diagram and having all the right staff in the right places is a big step to take when the train has a fundamental issue with such an essential passenger service.
If the claims that this has been a headache for months are true, I cannot understand how anyone could plan a soft or hard service entry launch. I really can't. I don't know if these loos are fitted on site or a complete module that gets lifted in. Is it possible that after requiring new wiring looms, these trains now need new WC modules?

By the sounds of it, it will most likely be a software issue, why that is taking so long how to identify the fix is anyone's guess.

EMR Maybe planned the 'launch' based on assurances from Hitachi that the problem would be sorted by now.

However the only people who will truly know what is going on are the Hitachi and EMR projects team.

 

[duffield]

By the sounds of it, it will most likely be a software issue, why that is taking so long how to identify the fix is anyone's guess.
...

Yes, if I was investigating this from a software POV I'd first be looking at something like the TMS (Toilet Management System ) thinking that the retention tank capacity was 2 litres rather than 200 litres!**

**Made-up illustrative figures

 

[QSK19]

Thanks goodness, therefore, that only a few of the 222s are going off-lease. At least there is no time constraint in that respect (despite the fact that having only 22 of them is insufficient), but this is a cisterning development.

 

[Railperf]

By the sounds of it, it will most likely be a software issue, why that is taking so long how to identify the fix is anyone's guess.

EMR Maybe planned the 'launch' based on assurances from Hitachi that the problem would be sorted by now.

However the only people who will truly know what is going on are the Hitachi and EMR projects team.

Surely the software is tested before it even gets uploaded? Surely the toilet modules are built and tested before installing them on to the train, then tested again once fitted into the train One would hope that an engineer plugs a laptop in and with clean water gets the toilet module to run a cycle of a hundred flushes or so to check that everything works okay before signing off?

 

[liamf656]

Surely the software is tested before it even gets uploaded? Surely the toilet modules are built and tested before installing them on to the train, then tested again once fitted into the train One would hope that an engineer plugs a laptop in and with clean water gets the toilet module to run a cycle of a hundred flushes or so to check that everything works okay before signing off?

How do you know that hasn't already been done? Or whether those tweets quoted are even 100% true?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Why does anyone even need software to flush a toilet?

 

[Railperf]

Why does anyone even need software to flush a toilet?

In its simplest form there would be an electric solenoid valve that is activated by the flush switch. But I guess in a train application there are other factors such as the level of water in the storage tanks to supply to the flush, and the level of sewage in the storage tanks. In a very simple mechanical setup there would be an interlock to prevent a flush if there is no water to flush the loo and if the sewage tanks are full. Taking that a step further there is clearly some sort of interlock that locks the train toilet out of order where there is an issue. Instead of mechanical interlocks, the whole thing feeds into a computer system that takes care of it and manages whether the toilet can be accessed and used depending on its reported state.
We do don't know what the exact issue is, and I'm sure it won't be publicised. I don't believe a respected rail journalist would publish false information on his own website about the issue. But I guess he won't get a technical explanation either.

 

[800001]

Surely the software is tested before it even gets uploaded? Surely the toilet modules are built and tested before installing them on to the train, then tested again once fitted into the train One would hope that an engineer plugs a laptop in and with clean water gets the toilet module to run a cycle of a hundred flushes or so to check that everything works okay before signing off?

And they probably have! However we all know that's everyday life throws up issues, bugs, problems, that is also what everyday testing of the trains is for.
It's good it's been found during the test phase.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Are the class 810 toilets the same as fitted to 800 801 and 802 ?

 

[The_Train]

Are the class 810 toilets the same as fitted to 800 801 and 802 ?

If they are, and knowing past issues with wiring, I'd assume the issue is that the toilets have been wired up to the AWS so every time the driver acknowledges that they flush all the toilets as well

 

[Railperf]

If they are, and knowing past issues with wiring, I'd assume the issue is that the toilets have been wired up to the AWS so every time the driver acknowledges that they flush all the toilets as well

 

[QSK19]

If they are, and knowing past issues with wiring, I'd assume the issue is that the toilets have been wired up to the AWS so every time the driver acknowledges that they flush all the toilets as well

So, the toilets aren’t Passenger Only Operation then?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If they are, and knowing past issues with wiring, I'd assume the issue is that the toilets have been wired up to the AWS so every time the driver acknowledges that they flush all the toilets as well

Or maybe if you don't flush within 2 seconds of passing over the AWS magnet it gets locked out?

 

[Spartacus]

Or maybe if you don't flush within 2 seconds of passing over the AWS magnet it gets locked out?

That might have been the initial problem with the 195 ones, now you mention it!

ANYROAD....
810008 should be off Etches Park for a run to St Pancras & back on 3A27/3A28 shortly.

 

[STINT47]

It's very disappointing ti learn of these toilet problems. These trains were meant to provideca relife service.

 

[43102EMR]

Has there been any updates as to the first day of service/initial diagrams? Or is still up in the air at the moment

 

[Wyrleybart]

810008 should be off Etches Park for a run to St Pancras & back on 3A27/3A28 shortly.

Presume pan up south of Wigston then ?

 

[Spartacus]

Presume pan up south of Wigston then ?

The schedule shows that's what it's booked to do from Kilby Bridge

 

[InvHst]

Has there been any updates as to the first day of service/initial diagrams? Or is still up in the air at the moment

Still up in the air it's a day by day decision currently

 

[43102EMR]

Still up in the air it's a day by day decision currently

Figured as such, thanks

 

[38Cto15E]

Forgive my negativity but these 810's are a few years late coming to the MML because they had to be re-designed because they would not fit into St Pancras station , they were meant to be electric powered to Sheffield but there is no juice from Kilby Bridge, there are reports of the toilets on the Aurora's not working properly and passengers at Leicester have been let down by their City Council with the station entrance fiasco.
What has happened to our country, and I haven't even mentioned HS2.

 

[QSK19]

Forgive my negativity but these 810's are a few years late coming to the MML because they had to be re-designed because they would not fit into St Pancras station , they were meant to be electric powered to Sheffield but there is no juice from Kilby Bridge, there are reports of the toilets on the Aurora's not working properly and passengers at Leicester have been let down by their City Council with the station entrance fiasco.
What has happened to our country, and I haven't even mentioned HS2.

It’s certainly not been a positive introduction process. Throw in other, numerous concerns highlighted throughout RF and the omens aren’t good.

We can only but hope that, when they do eventually make it into service, there won’t be many teething problems. I don’t hold out much hope, though!

 

[liamf656]

Has there been any updates as to the first day of service/initial diagrams? Or is still up in the air at the moment

No 810s in service tomorrow. They're looking at it day by day I believe

 

[AndrewJM70]

How is it possible that they have only just noticed that the toilets aren’t working on the day they are supposed to enter service three years late?