East-West Rail (EWR) countdown to entry into service

[Peter Mugridge]

That looks fantastically good, and presumably the fact of the livery now being applied means a definite start to services cannot be far away?

 

[PLY2AYS]

That looks fantastically good, and presumably the fact of the livery now being applied means a definite start to services cannot be far away?

One would hope so.

Glad they’ve matched it with the refreshed colour scheme of the 168s!

 

[zwk500]

That looks fantastically good, and presumably the fact of the livery now being applied means a definite start to services cannot be far away?

One would hope so.

Glad they’ve matched it with the refreshed colour scheme of the 168s!

One hopes they fitted the DOO equipment shortly before wrapping it, in which case its another step on the way.
Although isnt there still a big issue with the number of trained drivers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

One hopes they fitted the DOO equipment shortly before wrapping it, in which case its another step on the way.

They already have DOO cameras, it's just a matter of getting them working.

Although isnt there still a big issue with the number of trained drivers?

I really don't get why they don't introduce an initial weekdays only daytime introductory service of two or three round trips to start, which you'd think they would have enough drivers trained for. This is normal practice when starting a new service (give it a soft start to iron out problems with low loadings), yet it seems they still want to do a "big bang" to the full half hourly so it can all collapse far more spectacularly on day one.

 

[PLY2AYS]

One hopes they fitted the DOO equipment shortly before wrapping it, in which case its another step on the way.
Although isnt there still a big issue with the number of trained drivers?

As far as I am aware, a significant number of drivers came across to EWR/Bletchley depot from other depots on Chiltern, which means that a lot of them are already trained and only required route knowledge.
Given that they would have already signed Oxford to Gavray Jn; it means only Gavray to MKC, Bletchley HL and depot (and I think a Fenny Stratford move was mentioned in regards to route knowledge) one could assume a significant proportion of drivers are ready to bring the service in.

As far as I’m aware, the cameras were either still fitted but never used, so as long as an agreement and appropriate training package is/has been put forward to implement/use them, then I’d imagine this is a very small hurdle to overcome now.

That being said, the last update I had was a driver manager had to be present within the cab in order to use MKC station platforms due to ‘local staffing agreements’

 

[DarloRich]

it means only Gavray to MKC, Bletchley HL and depot (and I think a Fenny Stratford move was mentioned in regards to route knowledge)

They have to learn to Fenny Stratford as it is the only way of accessing the depot:

Bletchley High > Fenny Stratford (Reverse) > Bletchley Low (Reverse) > Depot ( passing the depot twice on different levels in doing that short move!)

 

[Tester]

They have to learn to Fenny Stratford as it is the only way of accessing the depot:

Bletchley High > Fenny Stratford (Reverse) > Bletchley Low (Reverse) > Depot ( passing the depot twice on different levels in doing that short move!)

How convenient

 

[zwk500]

They have to learn to Fenny Stratford as it is the only way of accessing the depot:

Bletchley High > Fenny Stratford (Reverse) > Bletchley Low (Reverse) > Depot ( passing the depot twice on different levels in doing that short move!)

If they're using the TMD/Cambridge sidings isn't there direct access from Fenny Stratford?

Alternatively you can run Bletchley P7 > MKC (reverse in any platform) > Bletchley P5 > Bletchley TMD. Learning via Fenny Stratford is very helpful in case of a problem at the Bletchley end of the depot but not 100% necessary for service.

If using Bletchley CS alongside the WCML then there's direct access from Bletchley Platform 5 or MKC, so again Fenny Stratford would be helpful but not strictly necessary.

 

[DarloRich]

If they're using the TMD/Cambridge sidings isn't there direct access from Fenny Stratford?

no - certainly not into the depot. Only accessible from the Bletchley end. The Cambridge sidings are connected at the Fenny end but am unsure if:

a) a movement INTO the sidings is possible from Fenny - there is a shunt signal so perhaps it is.
and
b) if the sidings are useable.
and
c) no idea when a train last used that connection. I have certainly never seen one in the 15 years i have lived here! ( doesn't mean they haven't mind!)

( the TMD is on a slightly higher level than the Cambridge sidings which isn't, perhaps, noticeable on google maps)

Alternatively you can run Bletchley P7 > MKC (reverse in any platform) > Bletchley P5 > Bletchley TMD. Learning via Fenny Stratford is very helpful in case of a problem at the Bletchley end of the depot but not 100% necessary for service.

absolutely - just more hassle. Fewer trains to annoy at Fenny

If using Bletchley CS alongside the WCML then there's direct access from Bletchley Platform 5 or MKC, so again Fenny Stratford would be helpful but not strictly necessary.

not sure there is a capacity for E-W trains to use the carriage sidings. They look pretty full of an evening.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they're using the TMD/Cambridge sidings isn't there direct access from Fenny Stratford?

Surprisingly not to the depot (the layout is visible on Google Maps). The sidings look abandoned.

Alternatively you can run Bletchley P7 > MKC (reverse in any platform) > Bletchley P5 > Bletchley TMD. Learning via Fenny Stratford is very helpful in case of a problem at the Bletchley end of the depot but not 100% necessary for service.

If using Bletchley CS alongside the WCML then there's direct access from Bletchley Platform 5 or MKC, so again Fenny Stratford would be helpful but not strictly necessary.

Interestingly in the shadow timetable the last few trains of the day (presumably all the sets going "home") terminate at Bletchley and the first few start there. If running via MKC that would presumably provide a better service without faffing via Fenny!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2025 ==

not sure there is a capacity for E-W trains to use the carriage sidings. They look pretty full of an evening.

5 sets is only 10 cars, or one pair of 730/2s

They might be quieter once the 350/2s are all gone, or do they all go to Northampton of an evening?

 

[PLY2AYS]

They have to learn to Fenny Stratford as it is the only way of accessing the depot:

Bletchley High > Fenny Stratford (Reverse) > Bletchley Low (Reverse) > Depot ( passing the depot twice on different levels in doing that short move!)

Makes perfect sense to me! Thanks for the clarification!

 

[BlueLeanie]

I really don't get why they don't introduce an initial weekdays only daytime introductory service of two or three round trips to start, which you'd think they would have enough drivers trained for. This is normal practice when starting a new service (give it a soft start to iron out problems with low loadings), yet it seems they still want to do a "big bang" to the full half hourly so it can all collapse far more spectacularly on day one.

That would make sense. It would mean someone having to be decisive about fares though, and that could be years away.

Is there a turnback facility East of Bicester Village? If you can't make DOO work East of Bicester Village for the moment, then surely the next best thing is to double the number of services between Bicester and Oxford and get the drivers accustomed to running the units in passenger service and passengers prepared for the best ever commuter service.

 

[zwk500]

Is there a turnback facility East of Bicester Village? If you can't make DOO work East of Bicester Village for the moment, then surely the next best thing is to double the number of services between Bicester and Oxford and get the drivers accustomed to running the units in passenger service and passengers prepared for the best ever commuter service.

Technically yes. Either terminate in the eastbound platform and shunt forward over the level crossing, or cross to wrong road at Bicester Depot West Jn.
However both of these options require additional capacity on the line between Oxford and Marylebone compared to the through EWR service and would be very problematic when late running was happening on Chiltern.
One alternative would be to send the units forward to Claydon and recess the ECS in the loops there, but that requires a significant distance of empty running and I don't know how the paths would line up for using less units.

 

[Nicholas43]

Rail magazine is reporting that Chiltern management aren't yet happy with Winslow station.

Chiltern Railways has still to adopt Winslow station on East West Rail, with the final work still being done to finish the only new station on phase one of the route between Oxford and Milton Keynes.

While gate lines and ticket vending machines are being installed, work is also being done to improve the passenger experience in the station building.

Speaking at the Rail Forum annual conference, Chiltern Managing Director Richard Allan said: “That station was designed and built several years ago. When we came to be accounted as the operator, we went to have a look at Winslow and discovered that it’s being built, but it’s not being built fit for purpose."

I find it depressing that, as far as I know, there is still no target (let alone firm) date for the start of passenger services from Oxford to Milton Keynes. Although freight trains are running, ahem, south-north: amusingly, between Southampton and Northampton.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Rail magazine is reporting that Chiltern management aren't yet happy with Winslow station.

I find it depressing that, as far as I know, there is still no target (let alone firm) date for the start of passenger services from Oxford to Milton Keynes. Although freight trains are running, ahem, south-north: between Southampton and Northampton.

On the New Stations calendar thread master list, the anticipated opening date for Winslow station is shown as "2025 (unlikely)"

 

[zwk500]

Rail magazine is reporting that Chiltern management aren't yet happy with Winslow station.

I find it depressing that, as far as I know, there is still no target (let alone firm) date for the start of passenger services from Oxford to Milton Keynes. Although freight trains are running, ahem, south-north: between Southampton and Northampton.

This is particularly depressing. However it would certainly be possible to run Oxford-MK and just not stop at Winslow until the station is ready.

There seem to have been a few more training runs in the last couple of weeks. Hopefully it could be very early next year when service starts.

 

[JamesT]

This is particularly depressing. However it would certainly be possible to run Oxford-MK and just not stop at Winslow until the station is ready.

There seem to have been a few more training runs in the last couple of weeks. Hopefully it could be very early next year when service starts.

Presumably the constraint on service start remains agreeing who's opening the doors? Has there been any more news regarding this?

 

[PLY2AYS]

Presumably the constraint on service start remains agreeing who's opening the doors? Has there been any more news regarding this?

There has.
GS Eddie Dempsey of the RMT has stepped up to voice full support for staff onboard given that driver only operation overlooks passengers travelling with disabilities, and fully supports ASLEF’s position to prevent the extension of DOO. Especially in the wake of Huntingdon.

That said, AFAIK, a letter has been sent to the DfT, potentially as a point of discussion in conjunction with the Railways bill currently due a second reading.

 

[Carlisle]

On hindsight it might’ve been better to have had East West Rail run the service, yes it might’ve been more expensive to initially set up but if Chiltern end up having to recruit around 50 additional guards, it would ultimately have been far better value & future proofed any extension plans.

 

[PLY2AYS]

On hindsight it might’ve been better to have had East West Rail run the service, yes it might’ve been more expensive to initially set up but if Chiltern end up having to recruit around 50 additional guards, it would ultimately have been far better value & future proofed any extension plans.

You mean a Government department went for a cheaper short term option with blatant disregard for any long term planning?
I’ve never heard of something so preposterous!

 

[JamesT]

On hindsight it might’ve been better to have had East West Rail run the service, yes it might’ve been more expensive to initially set up but if Chiltern end up having to recruit around 50 additional guards, it would ultimately have been far better value & future proofed any extension plans.

Why would setting up a completely new TOC have been any better? You're going to have to duplicate everything Chiltern are already doing for all their other services. EWR only exist to deliver the infrastructure.
There's no guarantee another TOC wouldn't have had exactly the same fight with the unions over the method of operation. The benefit of an existing TOC might be if the drivers already have DCO in their terms.

 

[Carlisle]

There's no guarantee another TOC wouldn't have had exactly the same fight with the unions over the method of operation. The benefit of an existing TOC might be if the drivers already have DCO in their terms.

Crossrail for instance didn’t face any similar problems as they recruited from the outset for their desired operating method.

 

[zwk500]

Crossrail for instance didn’t face any similar problems as they recruited from the outset for their desired operating method.

Did any of the GA/GWR services TfL Rail took over work with guards at the time they were transferred? It's a bit of a different negotiation with the unions if you don't employ any guards in the first place.

Also worth pointing out MTR knew officially for a very long time prior to taking on the service that they would be operating it. The decision by the government(s) to delay announcement of Chiltern as the TOC for MK-Oxford is one that should be held strongly to account by the Transport Select Committee.

 

[DavidGrain]

The fact of the matter is that as this is a new service so no guards have lost their jobs because of DOO. Existing Chiltern drivers are all passed to work DOO. Chiltern has been or will be recruiting guards for the new Mk 5As as they will be operating more trains on which guards are required for which the unions should be grateful.

 

[fishwomp]

The fact of the matter is that as this is a new service so no guards have lost their jobs because of DOO. Existing Chiltern drivers are all passed to work DOO. Chiltern has been or will be recruiting guards for the new Mk 5As as they will be operating more trains on which guards are required for which the unions should be grateful.

Indeed. I can't imagine those drivers recruited are earning much overtime at the moment either.. not in their interests to delay.. would there typically be additional pay for DOO, or is it just rolled into the salary by now?

 

[Oxfordblues]

At the very least Chiltern should announce a date on which the date of the start of service is finally announced.

 

[DelW]

The fact of the matter is that as this is a new service so no guards have lost their jobs because of DOO. Existing Chiltern drivers are all passed to work DOO. Chiltern has been or will be recruiting guards for the new Mk 5As as they will be operating more trains on which guards are required for which the unions should be grateful.

It's certainly a very good way of discouraging governments from putting further public money into reopening closed lines. It also damages the cost/benefit calculation for such lines.

 

[PLY2AYS]

The fact of the matter is that as this is a new service so no guards have lost their jobs because of DOO. Existing Chiltern drivers are all passed to work DOO. Chiltern has been or will be recruiting guards for the new Mk 5As as they will be operating more trains on which guards are required for which the unions should be grateful.

The unions should be grateful that guards have been provided for LHCS?

What a fantastic way to view it.

Passengers should be grateful that staff are working trains that require a guard, is another way to frame it.

RMT and ASLEF are standing fast on the fact that there is no platform DOO equipment and no on board DOO equipment and no station staff.

How do you propose a safe and inclusive service is run without those fundamental pieces of infrastructure and key members of staff on a 21st Century brand new passenger railway?

I understand the frustration, but the union position is entirely justified. How many people do you want trapped and dragged or left stranded at stations?

Would it take 1 fatality or 1 driver losing their job to make you see things differently?

 

[Falcon1200]

RMT and ASLEF are standing fast on the fact that there is no platform DOO equipment and no on board DOO equipment and no station staff.

Are Chiltern really intending to start the service under DOO with none of those things in place?

 

[DavidGrain]

RMT and ASLEF are standing fast on the fact that there is no platform DOO equipment and no on board DOO equipment and no station staff.

The Class 196s were built with carriage side cameras specifically for DOO use. The equipment was deactivated when these trains were used on WMR but would have been reactivated when the trains were transferred to Chiltern.