National Express Coaches Discussion

[Titfield]

It’s no secret mobico, National expresses parent company is under intense financial strain and even potentially an existential crisis. Lots of talk around our depot that mobico could be forced to sell off national express sometime in the new year….interesting times. They’ve sold off everything else pretty much.

The share price isnt exactly indicative of a prosperous company. (£0.25 currently) Down by 85% in the last 5 years.

 

[coach fan]

The share price isnt exactly indicative of a prosperous company. (£0.25 currently) Down by 85% in the last 5 years.

All their own doing. They’ve even done away with the drive cams, fatigue cams and alcolock devices, something I thought I’d never ever see happen. The coach network could look very very different indeed this time next year.

 

[nick291]

All their own doing. They’ve even done away with the drive cams, fatigue cams and alcolock devices, something I thought I’d never ever see happen. The coach network could look very very different indeed this time next year.

Definitely think we'll start seeing less Levante's for sure but it'll still be an option for partner operators to use.

 

[Titfield]

All their own doing. They’ve even done away with the drive cams, fatigue cams and alcolock devices, something I thought I’d never ever see happen. The coach network could look very very different indeed this time next year.

Is it just a lack of passengers / competition from Flixbus / advance rail fares that is costing them dearly

 

[coach fan]

Is it just a lack of passengers / competition from Flixbus / advance rail fares that is costing them dearly

Airport services, particularly Stansted is nowhere near as busy as it used to be. It used to be the goose that laid the golden eggs. Again, they’ve made the routes so convoluted now, is it any wonder? Look at the a8 route map and weep. Flixbus haven’t helped. The Wandsworth depot was also a huge mistake that’s cost them. Plus several decent pay rises for owned ops drivers. It’s the Perfect storm.

Uk coach is merging with Spanish ALSA in January. But it’s a mere sticking plaster. The only way to save national express brand is for a buyout. But honestly, who would?

 

[MotCO]

Has their business model changed from using contractors to using their own coaches? Has that been their downfall? Flixbus is all contracted.

 

[coach fan]

London Airport services (Luton and Stansted) have always been run in house. Never sub contracted. They used to make too much money to risk giving a slice of that to a third party. We have Jason Edwards travel who operate a few A6’s but that’s due to driver shortages more so than sub contracting to save costs.

 

[darloscott]

Airport services, particularly Stansted is nowhere near as busy as it used to be. It used to be the goose that laid the golden eggs. Again, they’ve made the routes so convoluted now, is it any wonder? Look at the a8 route map and weep. Flixbus haven’t helped. The Wandsworth depot was also a huge mistake that’s cost them. Plus several decent pay rises for owned ops drivers. It’s the Perfect storm.

Uk coach is merging with Spanish ALSA in January. But it’s a mere sticking plaster. The only way to save national express brand is for a buyout. But honestly, who would?

As someone who was involved in the set up of the Flibco service I was very surprised when they did the last set of changes and extended the A9s beyond Stratford - this meant they would no longer have a coach sat on the stand at Stratford most of the time… which my research perceived to be very valuable!

 

[JD2168]

I managed to see one of the Temsa Safari’s in use today. It is ST75 TTS on 561

 

[omnicity4659]

All their own doing. They’ve even done away with the drive cams, fatigue cams and alcolock devices, something I thought I’d never ever see happen. The coach network could look very very different indeed this time next year.

DriveCam is still used, new Temsas have them.

 

[Wilko82]

All their own doing. They’ve even done away with the drive cams, fatigue cams and alcolock devices, something I thought I’d never ever see happen. The coach network could look very very different indeed this time next year.

Is that true? From my recent experiences all of the 24 and 74 plate Edwards Levante 3A coaches certainly have all that fitted as standard.

Also from speaking to a couple of the Edwards Avonmouth based drivers this past week, they were totally unaware about their company taking over the Park's operation

 

[Simon75]

The share price isnt exactly indicative of a prosperous company. (£0.25 currently) Down by 85% in the last 5 years.

If the merger with Stagecoach had gone ahead, would that have helped things ?

 

[Eyersey468]

Is that true? From my recent experiences all of the 24 and 74 plate Edwards Levante 3A coaches certainly have all that fitted as standard.

Also from speaking to a couple of the Edwards Avonmouth based drivers this past week, they were totally unaware about their company taking over the Park's operation

It's only in the last couple of months they stopped using Guardian and alcholocks, though our 74 plates and 25 plates still have them fitted at the moment

 

[coach fan]

DriveCam is still used, new Temsas have them.

Negative. Drive cam contract was literally cancelled on Tuesday. They will be removed by February. Although there is talk of leaving the actual units in the coach. But simply when they trigger an event, head office won’t receive it. You didn’t hear that here though….

 

[MotCO]

Negative. Drive cam contract was literally cancelled on Tuesday. They will be removed by February. Although there is talk of leaving the actual units in the coach. But simply when they trigger an event, head office won’t receive it. You didn’t hear that here though….

Presumably this is a cost saving for service or licencing costs. I would not have thought that the savings would have been that significant, so does this smell of desperate measures?

 

[coach fan]

Presumably this is a cost saving for service or licencing costs. I would not have thought that the savings would have been that significant, so does this smell of desperate measures?

We’ve all said the same. Mobico has circa 1 billion debt. Scrapping the alco lock contract and others won’t make a blind bit of difference. It’s desperation.

 

[gingerheid]

Airport services, particularly Stansted is nowhere near as busy as it used to be. It used to be the goose that laid the golden eggs. Again, they’ve made the routes so convoluted now, is it any wonder? Look at the a8 route map and weep. Flixbus haven’t helped. The Wandsworth depot was also a huge mistake that’s cost them. Plus several decent pay rises for owned ops drivers. It’s the Perfect storm.

Uk coach is merging with Spanish ALSA in January. But it’s a mere sticking plaster. The only way to save national express brand is for a buyout. But honestly, who would?

Their airport services also became terrible. Stansted is as busy as it ever was and for years Cross Country were providing a terrible service, but coaches from Cambridge are infrequent and often more expensive than the train. The only reason you'd use them is for the overnight ones.

 

[markymark2000]

We’ve all said the same. Mobico has circa 1 billion debt. Scrapping the alco lock contract and others won’t make a blind bit of difference. It’s desperation.

I suppose you have got to try some thing. And let's be honest, very few companies have bothered with the Alcolock stuff and so it's just an extra bit of NatEx tech which added to the costs of operating.
Guardian seems to be an annoyance and most drivers I have spoken to, both past and present, have criticised the system. It's probably a good thing for this to be being removed.

Airport services, particularly Stansted is nowhere near as busy as it used to be. It used to be the goose that laid the golden eggs. Again, they’ve made the routes so convoluted now, is it any wonder? Look at the a8 route map and weep. Flixbus haven’t helped. The Wandsworth depot was also a huge mistake that’s cost them. Plus several decent pay rises for owned ops drivers. It’s the Perfect storm.

There has been many self destruct moves by National Express over the past decade. I'm not sure if Mobico are ruining the brand, or whether it's really bad management within NatEx itself who are hell bent on running things into the ground?

 

[Eyersey468]

We’ve all said the same. Mobico has circa 1 billion debt. Scrapping the alco lock contract and others won’t make a blind bit of difference. It’s desperation.

We have all said scrapping alcholock is a bad idea as the drivers that like to have a drink on a night will take the chance to have one more. Guardian won't be missed

 

[coach fan]

I suppose you have got to try some thing. And let's be honest, very few companies have bothered with the Alcolock stuff and so it's just an extra bit of NatEx tech which added to the costs of operating.
Guardian seems to be an annoyance and most drivers I have spoken to, both past and present, have criticised the system. It's probably a good thing for this to be being removed.


There has been many self destruct moves by National Express over the past decade. I'm not sure if Mobico are ruining the brand, or whether it's really bad management within NatEx itself who are hell bent on running things into the ground?

It’s mobico. The owned ops depots have very little say on how the day to day running is best achieved. The management at these depots are essentially just puppets.
Management said the A8 wouldn’t be popular with both drivers and passengers alike. That the a9 should retain its direct and one stop status. That running numbers do this sort of service more harm than good. Blah blah. They don’t listen or care.

 

[markymark2000]

We have all said scrapping alcholock is a bad idea as the drivers that like to have a drink on a night will take the chance to have one more. Guardian won't be missed

Will drivers actually do this though? Given Alcolocks aren't widespread across the industry, are you saying that the rest of the industry bar NatEx is full of drivers who are drinking more than they should and driving under the influence?

Yes the occasional driver may by silly, but the industry as a whole seems to cope fine without alcolocks.

It’s mobico. The owned ops depots have very little say on how the day to day running is best achieved. The management at these depots are essentially just puppets.
Management said the A8 wouldn’t be popular with both drivers and passengers alike. That the a9 should retain its direct and one stop status. That running numbers do this sort of service more harm than good. Blah blah. They don’t listen or care.

The routes and schedules will be NX coaches management in Digbeth wont it rather than Mobico? That's the 'management' level I was looking at. Are Digbeth management lot screwing over NatEx, or is it at the international group level? If it's the Digbeth lot, decades of self destructing the network should surely be investigated as that suggests that there are some VERY poor staff in Digbeth offices.

Of course local depot management aren't to blame for such large scale issues.

 

[coach fan]

Will drivers actually do this though? Given Alcolocks aren't widespread across the industry, are you saying that the rest of the industry bar NatEx is full of drivers who are drinking more than they should and driving under the influence?

Yes the occasional driver may by silly, but the industry as a whole seems to cope fine without alcolocks.


The routes and schedules will be NX coaches management in Digbeth wont it rather than Mobico? That's the 'management' level I was looking at. Are Digbeth management lot screwing over NatEx, or is it at the international group level? If it's the Digbeth lot, decades of self destructing the network should surely be investigated as that suggests that there are some VERY poor staff in Digbeth offices.

Of course local depot management aren't to blame for such large scale issues.

Mobico and national express uk coach head office are essentially the same thing. There is no real difference.

Mobico ran lucketts, Clarke’s, Kings ferry, and worthing coaches all into the ground. They’re doing the same to white coach. From what I can gather from a former colleague morale has improved tenfold at Clarke’s since they were cut lose and are now run by someone that actually knows how to run coaches. Which hilariously enough is the old Nat ex management when shares weren’t cheaper than a chocolate bar.

 

[nick291]

There has been many self destruct moves by National Express over the past decade. I'm not sure if Mobico are ruining the brand, or whether it's really bad management within NatEx itself who are hell bent on running things into the ground?

They'll go the megabus way of adding arbitrary stops to routes that don't need them next, just you watch!

 

[markymark2000]

They'll go the megabus way of adding arbitrary stops to routes that don't need them next, just you watch!

They already have on the 551. Liverpool, Chester, Nantwich, Stoke, Birmingham, Birmingham Airport, Heathrow, Earls Court then London Victoria. Who is trusting a once per day bus for their airport transfer? I certainly wouldn't be. It's also followed 15 minutes later by the 210, so it makes absolutely no sense adding 30-35 minutes onto a longer distance service, to satisfy demand that is barely there (north west - Heathrow) or satisfy shorter distance demand (such as the Birmingham to Heathrow traffic).
They also threw in Warrington Winwick Road onto the 170 (top end near Aldi) but that has now been removed thankfully as it was a very silly stop.

 

[nick291]

They already have on the 551. Liverpool, Chester, Nantwich, Stoke, Birmingham, Birmingham Airport, Heathrow, Earls Court then London Victoria. Who is trusting a once per day bus for their airport transfer? I certainly wouldn't be. It's also followed 15 minutes later by the 210, so it makes absolutely no sense adding 30-35 minutes onto a longer distance service, to satisfy demand that is barely there (north west - Heathrow) or satisfy shorter distance demand (such as the Birmingham to Heathrow traffic).
They also threw in Warrington Winwick Road onto the 170 (top end near Aldi) but that has now been removed thankfully as it was a very silly stop.

I can imagine, bizarre routing to say the least

 

[Eyersey468]

@markymark2000 of course I'm.not saying that every coach driver is going to drink a lot every night

 

[gingerheid]

It’s mobico. The owned ops depots have very little say on how the day to day running is best achieved. The management at these depots are essentially just puppets.
Management said the A8 wouldn’t be popular with both drivers and passengers alike. That the a9 should retain its direct and one stop status. That running numbers do this sort of service more harm than good. Blah blah. They don’t listen or care.

I couldn't believe the A8. It makes almost as little sense as FlixBus's (automatically generated?) advertising!!!

 

[Stan Drews]

Also from speaking to a couple of the Edwards Avonmouth based drivers this past week, they were totally unaware about their company taking over the Park's operation

It would appear that Park’s management in Scotland were totally unaware too!!

 

[route101]

I find the long distance coach industry very strange after covid. In 2023 services appeared to be ramped up across both NX and Megabus but now it seems be the odd cut.

 

[borage]

Will drivers actually do this though? Given Alcolocks aren't widespread across the industry, are you saying that the rest of the industry bar NatEx is full of drivers who are drinking more than they should and driving under the influence?

Yes the occasional driver may by silly, but the industry as a whole seems to cope fine without alcolocks.

TIL (today I learnt) the Alcolock devices were adopted in 2010, after an accident in 2007 where the driver was over the limit

2007 M1 motorway coach accident - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Apparently they're more commonplace in some other countries, but yes, other operators in the UK cope without them.