Sympathetic, but puzzled that you say arriving at LST at 1154 gave you "no chance" of catching the 1305 from PAD. Elizabeth line covers LST to PAD in under 15 minutes: granted you have to walk a bit at each end, but if anything that's less than KGX to PAD on the Hammersmith and City line, no?
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Experiences of service recovery (or lack of) on GTR Great Northern
- Thread starter Failed Unit
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
My mistake, 1205, will correct.
1303 was what I eventually caught. Arrived 12m down as well so I am hoping that as through-ticketed with GWR I will get 100% refund.
Return on 16th was equally fraught.
1A86 was on the board as diverted via Bristol TM. When it got to Taunton the train manager announced the engineering work at Westbury was nearly(!) finished so we sat there for a further 13m (and overtaken by the Edinburgh train) until signaller gave the go-ahead. Continued to lose time gradually until it was 42 late at Reading and terminated there. No refund on this one as I got back to CBG as per original plan.
BTW hadn't noticed these announcements before (of which there were many during the journey): "Will the <name of train staff member> make the next IC call". What does it mean?
No way would you have done KX to Pad in 11 minutes platfrom to platform.
I was delayed on the Elizabeth Line due to the power problems near Paddington yesterday. So knew I would miss the Thameslink Cambridge service at Farringdon as we were being held at Liverpool Street for some time. So got the circle line from Moorgate to Kings Cross.
The 17:39 Kings Lynn service was 8 coaches instead of the normal 12 coaches. So a number of people standing in each coach.
The 17:54 Letchworth service was showing as only 4 coaches instead of 8.
Are GN currently short of available rolling stock ?
At least one of the Letchworth to Kings Cross extras in the morning peak seems to be cancelled most days. The 07:17 seems the most reliable which fortunately is the one I tend to use if not needing to go to Farringdon for the Elizabeth Line.
The 17:39 Kings Lynn service was 8 coaches instead of the normal 12 coaches. So a number of people standing in each coach.
The 17:54 Letchworth service was showing as only 4 coaches instead of 8.
Are GN currently short of available rolling stock ?
At least one of the Letchworth to Kings Cross extras in the morning peak seems to be cancelled most days. The 07:17 seems the most reliable which fortunately is the one I tend to use if not needing to go to Farringdon for the Elizabeth Line.
Royston Vasey
Established Member
Just a heads-up, GWR will reject your delay repay claim as it should be directed to the operator who caused the initial delay. I'd resubmit it already to Great Northern, don't miss the 28 day deadline.
A refund isnt appropriate as you did reach your destination.
Hard to prove what advice was given and whether you'd have made it but it doesn't really matter. You just tell them what trains you intended to travel on and what you actually took.
1124 not 1154. Now corrected. Not making a good job of this writeup am I?
Put it to the test on way back, 1A26 arr PAD 1709 3/4, just managed to catch on time 1739 departure from KGX. Connection at Edgeware Rd quite favourable. So in platform - platform time is about 29 mins, maybe a minute or two less if I hadn't been carrying a heavy bag or come up the wrong exit from circle line.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
OK, thanks, I though it was for the operator who sold me the ticket. GW web site automatically identified my ticket so I didn't need to send a pic.
At least GN will be well aware what was going down at CBG that day.
ETA: done that now, thanks. GN claims website is much better than GWR for this. For a start it does not require you to open a special claims a/c even if you already have one for buying tickets. Roll on (G)BR, if I should live to see it.
Last edited:
I believe this service is a 12 car on Tues - Thurs only, just fyi.
Yes, I was travelling on Thursday and it was only 8 coaches. It has always been 12 on previous occasions on a Thursday.
0610/0640/0710 up from Kings Lynn and 1739/1809/1839 down from Kings Cross are currently booked to be 12 cars on Monday-Thursday but not Friday.
From December the up 12 car trains will be 0615/0645/0715 and the down 12 car trains 1718/1748/1818 and on Mondays to Fridays.
That will be an improvement. I have known the current 17:09 Kings Cross to Kings Lynn service being very crowded on Fridays, as people who are commuting tend to travel home earlier and it also has a lot of passengers who were returning from day tips to London. If not onboard by 1700 there are rarely any seats still available.
I was quite surprised to discover on Tuesday that the train I was on was going to divide, with the rear 4 going back to KGX. I seem to remember a discussion on here earlier this year to the effect that was a thing of the past.
bramling
Veteran Member
I don’t think there’s anything booked to do that in the week. Three Kings Lynn services detach a unit at Cambridge, all of which then go into the sidings. Some timetables have had two of these units attach (either in the sidings or at the station) and work a service back to King’s Cross.
However, on Sundays there are a number of services where a 12-car detaches a unit at Cambridge, remains on the platform, and then attaches to the next southbound service ex Kings Lynn. This way of doing things was quite common pre-2018. Again, it is quite risky from a performance point of view.
Any other service detaching a unit at Cambridge will be unplanned, for whatever reason.
Splitting and joining at Cambridge for most trains continued after the 2018 timetable change, the key event for running 8 car trains through to/from Kings Lynn was the opening of the platform extensions at Waterbeach and Littleport, which was some time during the pandemic lockdowns.
But the 2018 timetable change did squeeze the available time at Cambridge for a split and join without the London end unit leaving the platform, so London end units ran out to the carriage sidings and joined with a London bound service an hour later.
The Sunday timetable has been different for many years, and allows more time for a split and join.
Rather to my surprise I got the following from GWR yesterday:
<Your claim has been checked using a set process and the details of any delay verified using industry systems holding historic train running information. We have reviewed your claim and can confirm the following:
Travel Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2025
Departing: 10:14 from CAMBRIDGE to TOTNES
Decision: Approved
We have confirmed that the delay you experienced was between 60 - 119 minutes and that you are entitled to £45.95 in compensation. For further information on how we have calculated your award amount, please visit the Delay Repay page on the GWR website.>
So now I need to amend/cancel/withdraw the second claim on GN, which does not seem to be easy to do on their claims website so I have sent them a Customer Contact msge.
bramling
Veteran Member
Complete fading into thin air of the Cambridge-Brighton and Horsham-Peterborough services today. Be interesting to see if they manage to recover things before the end of the day. Suspect stations between Hitchin and Peterborough will see some very long gaps with no trains, indeed by the look of it they already have.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
They've had double fatalities this morning one at Luton one at Three Bridges.
Given issues at both Luton and Three Bridges, it isn't surprising that the service has not run well, but, as you say, that has led to long gaps on the Great Northern side.
It makes no difference if you are through ticketed or not (if anything being through ticket can reduce the possibilities for claiming, e.g. if part of the journey is delayed but the overall journey isn't).
A refund is only applicable if you did not complete the journey and returned to your point of origin.
GWR aren't liable for the delay if you missed the connection at PAD, due to delays on GTR.
GWR would only be liable if any delays on GTR did not cause you to miss your connection, and the onward GWR service was sufficiently delayed (though GWR would probably try to wriggle out of it, even then!)
A very difficult and tragic day for staff and passengers involved.
Very little going through the core towards the GN side during the evening peak. Thankfully LNER was running normally to Stevenage. I wonder how willing they will be to convey passengers between Kings Cross and Stevenage when this sort of disruption happens after Stevenage has become pick-up/set down only in December?
Yes it does. GN delay repay web page expressly says "Compensation will only be paid for missed connections when enough time has been left to meet the connection and you hold a ‘through’ ticket that covers the entire journey".
Conversly on the return journey the train from TOT was very late and on its own would have qualified me for a 50% payment but as I caught my planned train from KGX I didn't claim against FGW.
Nevertheless they have as upthread now approved the claim, despite having on the facts of the case an easy getout!
Technically you are correct but for most ppl getting all your money back would qualify for the use of the word "refund" in the layman's sense.
This is incorrect. What they perhaps mean is a through itinerary / through ticket(s) purchased prior to any delay being known.
It does not have to be a through ticket (singular).
Split tickets do not increase any entitlements to Delay Repay.
If you had split at London, a claim to London would have been successful, however of course you'd not be entitled for a journey through to Cambridge.
Maybe so, but it's not correct. The rail industry has decided that refunds are done through the retailer, while compensation is done through the relevant rail operator.
bramling
Veteran Member
This shouldn’t reasonably be expected to virtually remove a usable service between London and Peterborough. Either the crew arrangements aren’t robust enough, or the control function isn’t delivering what it needs to do.
I appreciate that two difficult incidents occurred virtually at the same time, however on a network as large as GTR it is reasonably foreseeable that this is going to happen on occasions, and the operation needs to be capable of dealing with it.
To add to what @yorkie has said, compensation is payable where a combination of tickets has been used. I've regularly claimed, and been paid, delay repay compensation using a combination of tickets.
GTR's Passenger Charter says:
I don't think a split at London would have been necessary for a successful claim bc as previously posted, after the train terminated short at Reading I was left with only 28 mins to get from PAD to KGX, which I am pretty sure is less than the min connection allowance. And there is no way for them to determine what time I got to CBG, but as it was not even 15 mins later than planned it would have been a fraudulent claim.
It's true that there is generally "no way" to detect a fraudulent claim with an old style ticket without a barcode, but barcoded tickets typically prevent that (unless barriers are open at relevant locations and there is no check on board).
However, if you had split in London, and then gone and done something in London, a claim could have been successfully made on that basis. (Yes, in theory you could have tried to claim on a through fare on the basis of a break of journey, but good luck to anyone doing that!)
My point, in case it's been missed, is that if you are comparing DR rights with split vs through tickets, there is no loss of rights with split tickets (quite the reverse; there are potentially enhanced entitlements to claim, under certain circumstances similar to that described, with split tickets).
It’s going to be almost impossible to prevent passengers getting on board, so whether LNER are willing or not, they’ll probably be doing so fairly regularly.
Southbound, I agree. But northbound I doubt the departure boards won't say the train is calling at Stevenage, unless someone at LNER manually changes something.
There were 4 consecutive southbound departures from Cambridge to intermediate stations cancelled yesterday afternoon including 2 stoppers, one of which was started from Letchworth instead.
The 1644 fast Kings Cross service was eventually started very late from platform 3 at Cambridge (Kings Lynn to Cambridge North section was cancelled) and calling additionally at Hitchin and Stevenage. The 1709 is booked to call at Royston and Letchworth and this service did run on time, For other journeys on the branch there was a 90 minute gap between stoppers leaving Cambridge
The 1644 fast Kings Cross service was eventually started very late from platform 3 at Cambridge (Kings Lynn to Cambridge North section was cancelled) and calling additionally at Hitchin and Stevenage. The 1709 is booked to call at Royston and Letchworth and this service did run on time, For other journeys on the branch there was a 90 minute gap between stoppers leaving Cambridge
Steve Harris
Established Member
That's pretty good considering Hitchin - Peterborough had gaps of 2 hrs yesterday and no alternative (as Cambridge does have the option of Greater Anglia if you need to get to London).