Expansion of LNER 70-min flex trial area ("Simpler Fares")

[Hadders]

Just a gentle nudge that this thread is to discuss the LNER Simpler Fares trial. Discussion about petrol prices, fuel duty etc is interesting but off-topic for this thread so further debate on this should take place in a separate thread.

 

[yorksrob]

No, nor do I when I work out what's the cheaper way of getting somewhere, because it's a sunk cost so properly falls to be disregarded by then. That doesn't change the reality that it is part of the cost of driving.

It's only when your car needs replacing that you've got to look at whether you need one. I doubt I will replace mine. My situation is admittedly a bit unusual - I live in a house, which I own, and I park my car about 80 yards away on a rectangle of associated land which I also own, but I don't own the land in between. So there are practical difficulties in installing a home EV charger.

Demand for rail travel is bound to increase as the cost of new cars and needed charging infrastructure makes car ownership less affordable and less practical than it used to be, and this will get worse when the screw is tightened on cheap second hand diesel and petrol cars, as more of them become subject to punitive road user charging. This thread is about a way for the UK authorities to bury their head in the sand and make the demand appear to evaporate, rather than building to provide the necessary capacity. If it's allowed to happen, travel will simply become less accessible to a large section of the population.

I'm quite pro-overcrowding. It's a symptom of inadequate capacity, and if it's allowed to be masked, it becomes difficult to persuade people of the necessity of building new railways.

Of course, I don't think that this trial will make demand "evaporate". It seems to be more of a way to get more money out of the same passengers rather than fewer passengers crowding the trains (I await to see evidence of the claim made elsewhere that these changes are revenue neutral).

There are various things that can be done to alleviate overcrowding before large scale infrastructure change:

- Not running five carriage trains up the main line
- More competitive fares at quiet times to entice people (advance purchase isn't what it was)
- More competitive first class upgrades to spread people along the train.
- Reviving the idea of cheapo night time services to shift people (these could use diversionary routes during night time engineering works).

 

[Hadders]

I’ve moved several posts about being unable to purchase super Off peak single tickets due to compulsory reservations into a separate thread:

LNER "Compulsory Reservations" Preventing Sale of Super Off Peak Ticket

Split from: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/expansion-of-lner-70-min-flex-trial-area-simpler-fares.272643/ Today I travelled from Inverness to south London on an off peak single. LNER are being fairly effective in their strategies to prevent people using perfectly valid walk up tickets on...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Telegraph has today weighed in on this, with a critical piece aimed at LNER prompted by the widening of the "trial" area. I don't normally have much time for that paper generally due to sensationalist articles these days, but this one seems well written and representative of the issues posed (though doubling fares is probably a bit sensationalist; my observation is of a 20-30% increase overall, not that that's OK!).

Cost of train tickets to double on state-run rail line


In an attempt to simplify fares, LNER is getting rid of off-peak and super off-peak tickets, with some prices set to rise significantly


Train ticket prices are set to double on a state-owned railway line from this weekend.


LNER, which runs trains between London, Edinburgh, Inverness and Aberdeen, is raising off-peak ticket prices by as much as 100 per cent in some instances.


The price rises are part of a two-year trial intended to make railway fares easier to understand.


A watchdog said that passengers “want simpler fares” but called for greater transparency from LNER about the trial.


Some fear that simplifying tickets means withdrawing cheaper fares and replacing them with more expensive ones.


Off-peak and super off-peak tickets will no longer be available from Sunday onwards, meaning the cost of some journeys on the East Coast Main Line will soar.


For example, travelling outside the main rush hour between Hatfield and the town of Alnmouth, roughly halfway between Newcastle and Edinburgh, will jump in price from £95.80 today to a minimum of £192 next week.


A similar journey from Welwyn Garden City to Berwick-upon-Tweed will more than double in price from £95.40 to £195.50 after Sunday – an increase of 107 per cent.


LNER’s trial, which began in January 2024, sees the existing ticket structure of anytime, off-peak and super off-peak fares being partially replaced.


While anytime tickets – typically the most expensive – will still be available from Sunday onwards, off-peak and super off-peak fares are being withdrawn.


They are being replaced by three new ticket types. Fixed fares are only valid for the train service stated on the ticket; semi-flexible tickets, also known as a “70min flex” fare, let travellers start their journeys up to 70 minutes either side of a pre-booked train; and fully flexible tickets – currently known as anytime – will be valid for travel at any time of day.


As a long distance train operator, LNER only serves major stations along the East Coast Main Line, which runs between London and Edinburgh.


While the Simpler Fares trial’s first phase only covered tickets between LNER’s directly served stations, tickets from smaller stations continued to have off-peak options available. Sunday’s change in ticket prices sees those fares withdrawn.


The result is that prices for leisure travellers are increasing significantly.


‘Passengers want simpler fares’


Last year, when the Simpler Fares trial was launched, transport blogger Roger French said: “This pilot is all about doing away with off-peak tickets by the back door. The Department for Transport is testing passenger reaction to a new era of rail-ticket price extortion.”


Referring to Sunday’s price increases, an LNER spokesman said: “While the off-peak and super off-peak tickets will be replaced by the new semi-flexible fares, advance [fixed] tickets will remain, providing our customers with the best-value fares.


“It is not fair to say that customers will have ‘no choice’ but to buy semi-flexible or anytime tickets.”


The spokesman insisted that there are semi-flexible fares available for a cheaper price than the £176.90 quote generated by LNER’s website at the time of writing on Tuesday.


“For travel between August and December, there are 1.1million semi-flexible tickets priced less than the old super off-peak fare as we remain committed to providing great value, yet easy-to-understand fares for customers,” added the spokesman.


Alex Robertson, chief executive of the Government-backed Transport Focus watchdog organisation said: “Our research tells us that passengers want simpler fares. Trials like these can provide valuable insight into what works best for passengers if done in the right way.


“It’s important that there is transparency about what they are trying to achieve, who will be affected and what results will be published before any changes are adopted on a permanent basis.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/03/cost-of-train-tickets-to-double-on-state-run-rail-line/ (but behind paywall, I got it from Apple News)

 

[Krokodil]

passengers want simpler fares

So why introduce this complicated new one then?

 

[redreni]

The Telegraph has today weighed in on this, with a critical piece aimed at LNER prompted by the widening of the "trial" area. I don't normally have much time for that paper generally due to sensationalist articles these days, but this one seems well written and representative of the issues posed (though doubling fares is probably a bit sensationalist; my observation is of a 20-30% increase overall, not that that's OK!).



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/03/cost-of-train-tickets-to-double-on-state-run-rail-line/ (but behind paywall, I got it from Apple News)

In the journalist's defence, he hasn't said they're raising fares by 100% on average, he's said "in some instances".

 

[yorksrob]

Kudos to the journalist for reporting on it. Let's hope that more of the MSM run with it.

 

[35B]

Kudos to the journalist for reporting on it. Let's hope that more of the MSM run with it.

Let's hope that credible papers, which aren't just anti-government troublemakers, pick it up.

 

[yorksrob]

Let's hope that credible papers, which aren't just anti-government troublemakers, pick it up.

I'd like to see all MSM, including BBC, Guardian, Mail, Express etc pick this up (although I agree, given this spans governments, I don't think a party political spin would be particularly helpful).

 

[Bletchleyite]

So why introduce this complicated new one then?

Quite. It seems simple but then you end up with the situation where the cheapest way to travel on about half the service (the faster Edinburgh trains) is to buy a 70 Minute Flex for the cheapest slower one either side of it and flex it immediately.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Let's hope that credible papers, which aren't just anti-government troublemakers, pick it up.

The Telegraph's actual journalism is pretty credible, especially their travel journalism. It's just their opinion columnists who are all completely out of their tree.

Good to see the Telegraph reporting on it.

PS: you can get around the Telegraph paywall by disabling Javascript. It's how I read it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Sep 2025 ==

In the journalist's defence, he hasn't said they're raising fares by 100% on average, he's said "in some instances".

And also in the journalist's defence, there's no transparency on the flex fares because they are tied to the advance fare buckets. There is absolutely no transparency on the advance fare buckets, so it becomes largely impossible to compare before and after. Which is, of course, another reason why LNER want the regulated fare gone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And also in the journalist's defence, there's no transparency on the flex fares because they are tied to the advance fare buckets. There is absolutely no transparency on the advance fare buckets, so it becomes largely impossible to compare before and after. Which is, of course, another reason why LNER want the regulated fare gone.

I've been nosing at it from time to time and comparing the fares offered on the day/the day before with the old Super Off Peak prices which would be around £100 (and can be found by using other stations, which I won't name here as I don't want to help LNER with their game of whack-a-mole) and noting the rough increase on average as above. Not scientific but I'm certainly getting the idea.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

PS: you can get around the Telegraph paywall by disabling Javascript. It's how I read it.

Is it possible to disable Javascript on a single website?

I'd like to see all MSM, including BBC, Guardian, Mail, Express etc pick this up (although I agree, given this spans governments, I don't think a party political spin would be particularly helpful).

This will be more likely to happen if LOTS of us "independently" raise the issue with them... "Are you aware that...?" and NOT using a standard worded e-mail or whatever.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Is it possible to disable Javascript on a single website?

With a browser extension like U-Block origin, yes.

 

[yorksrob]

Is it possible to disable Javascript on a single website?


This will be more likely to happen if LOTS of us "independently" raise the issue with them... "Are you aware that...?" and NOT using a standard worded e-mail or whatever.

Growing up in the South East, there always seemed to be some group campaigning about something or other on the railway on the local news - usually by holding some sort of event/party in a BIG buffet car as I recall.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is it possible to disable Javascript on a single website?

Yes, it is possible in Google Chrome on desktop. It’s in the settings, if you type Java into the search bar in settings you should find it.

 

[Hadders]

It seems that the Telegraph has read the article that appeared on busandtrainuser.com a few weeks back.

Good that this is now starting to be exposed in the mainstream media.

 

[John R]

It seems that the Telegraph has read the article that appeared on busandtrainuser.com a few weeks back.

Good that this is now starting to be exposed in the mainstream media.

It’s also featured in the latest Private Eye, and it’s fair to say it is not particularly complimentary about the change, noting the expansion of the roll out to stop those who have found a way around the abolition of off peak fares.

 

[yorksrob]

We need someone like Watchdog on the BBC to run with it.

 

[Kite159]

We need someone like Watchdog on the BBC to run with it.

Shame Watchdog only exists as part of another TV show, so doesn't have the same sort of impact it once had.

 

[yorksrob]

Shame Watchdog only exists as part of another TV show, so doesn't have the same sort of impact it once had.

That's progress for you !

 

[Rail101]

It seems that the Telegraph has read the article that appeared on busandtrainuser.com a few weeks back.

Good that this is now starting to be exposed in the mainstream media.

It is but that Telegraph article is very heavy on the right of reply received after offering it to LNER, arguably giving it undue weight relative to the rest of the article. The response from LNER is classic right of reply statement PR guff. The response from Transport Focus is almost as bad as the LNER trial itself. The article is welcome but it is simply a quick news story rather than a deeper feature which would have gone into more detail.

 

[johncrossley]

Where are the boycott campaigns? Where are the protests outside King's Cross? Have you encouraged your workplaces to stop booking on LNER trains? What do the rail magazines have to say about it? Has Barry S Doe started to boycott LNER?

 

[Jan Mayen]

I haven't read all 1,253 emails, but I'm not boycotting LNER.
On the other hand, I have only used it in the last two years with a First Class All Line Rail Rover. I wonder how much longer such tickets will exist....

Edited to add. I should point out that, for my 60th birthday a couple of years ago I decided to have a day out to the NRM in York, travelling from Three Bridges, First Class of course.
Even with my brand new Senior Railcard, the cost was more than £300, so went home and had a coffee.
Then I remembered the ALR, so went back and spent almost twice as much but travelled considerably more than twice as much on LNER

 

[Sonic1234]

Where are the boycott campaigns? Where are the protests outside King's Cross? Have you encouraged your workplaces to stop booking on LNER trains?

The absence of all of this is why prices will continue to go up, in ever sneakier ways. See also the GWR mid-year rise.

 

[D6700]

Is it possible to disable Javascript on a single website?

I'm not up on technical stuff, but I use the Mozilla Firefox browser on my PC and, tucked away in the menu, is an option called "Reader View" (which is more easily accessed by pressing F9). I accidentally discovered that this successfully bypasses many paywalls, including the one for the Telegraph article - although it may require a page refresh (F5) and a quick press of F9! Other browsers may have a similar feature.

Going back to the article itself, it's ironic in the extreme for the LNER spokesman to start with “It is not fair..."

 

[GilfachFargoed]

The absence of all of this is why prices will continue to go up, in ever sneakier ways. See also the GWR mid-year rise.

You are aware that going back at least 30 years there have been a minimum of 3 national fares changes a year, at which TOCs/TOUs/BR Sectors altered a number of fares both up and down? On top of which have been many thousands of 'ad-hoc' changes to permanent fares outside of 'normal' fare changes. Back in the mid-70s, with rampant inflation, BR increased fares twice in one year, by a compound 50%.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You are aware that going back at least 30 years there have been a minimum of 3 national fares changes a year, at which TOCs/TOUs/BR Sectors altered a number of fares both up and down? On top of which have been many thousands of 'ad-hoc' changes to permanent fares outside of 'normal' fare changes. Back in the mid-70s, with rampant inflation, BR increased fares twice in one year, by a compound 50%.

That of course is very visible and thus is reined in a bit by politics. Tweaking with Advance quotas is rather more surreptitious.

 

[stu]

I've had a bit of a read back through some posts, but I've got myself tied up in knots. Is there anyway round the fare trial now if you are doing Kings Cross <> Newcastle, especially in the morning peak Newcastle to London.
Cheers.

 

[Watershed]

if you're travelling at times when LNER's Super Off-Peak restriction codes 9D/1L limit travel (i.e. arriving into Kings Cross before 11:17 Mon-Thu) then your only flexible option is an Anytime ticket regardless of the station pair toy choose, so the trial doesn't make much difference to you.

Only if you're travelling outside those restricted times does the trial make a difference. In that case a Super Off-Peak Single between Newcastle and Enfield Town is the best alternative, costing £91.90. That's the same as a Newcastle to London Terminals Super Off-Peak Single would cost if it still existed.