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Thoughts on the Trump presidency

sor

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Funnily enough there was a random website that published an article about an Etsy charm cursing Charlie Kirk, 2 days before he was shot dead, which was quite the coincidence. Suffice to say the editors had to take it down and put a disclaimer that they don't condone political violence, though may reinstate it when the issue is less sensitive (when I'm in front of a PC I'll see if I can find it).
you presumably mean this - https://www.jezebel.com/we-paid-some-etsy-witches-to-curse-charlie-kirk

Editor’s Note: On Monday, September 8, we published the humorous piece titled “We Paid Some Etsy Witches to Curse Charlie Kirk.” The piece was intended as satire and made it absolutely clear that we wished no physical harm. We stand by every word.

But in light of Wednesday’s events, and on the recommendation of our lawyers, we have removed the text. To be clear, this decision was driven by an abundance of caution for our staff and to avoid the piece being misused in a tense and volatile environment, not by a change in our editorial judgment. We may republish at a later date, but out of compassion for the victim’s family, we want to make clear that we prioritize an end to violence over anyone wanting to read about Etsy witches.
it probably does say a lot about American politics that an obvious satire/non-serious article with no link to real life events has to be taken down for fear of retribution, legal or otherwise

Similarly, Comedy Central (now owned by a different republican billionaire to before, and one that had to kiss the ring to get Trump to approve the deal) has removed a South Park episode featuring Kirk that aired only a couple of months ago, and which Kirk himself praised
 
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jon0844

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I think the South Park parody was actually very respectful and no wonder he (Kirk) wasn't upset. Indeed, his reaction actually seemed quite normal for someone that I had zero time for.
 

brad465

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Vance: "Europe is stifling free speech.
Also Vance:


People who celebrate the killing of conservative influencer Charlie Kirk should be held accountable, US Vice-President JD Vance has said.
"Call them out, and hell, call their employer," Vance said as he guest-hosted an episode of the Charlie Kirk Show. "We don't believe in political violence, but we do believe in civility."
Pilots, medical professionals, teachers and one Secret Service employee are among those who have been suspended or sacked for social media posts that were deemed inappropriate about Kirk's death.
Critics have argued the firings threaten free speech and employee protections, although US companies have wide latitude to terminate employees.
Vance's comments aired on Monday in an episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, a daily podcast that Kirk hosted before he was shot in the neck last Wednesday while hosting a debate at Utah Valley University.
In the episode, the vice-president said that left-wing Americans "are much likelier to defend and celebrate political violence", and added that "there is no civility in the celebration of political assassination".
A recent YouGov poll, external found liberal Americans were more likely than conservatives to defend feeling joy about the deaths of political opponents.
Vance's remarks come as other Republican US lawmakers echoed calls for those publicly celebrating Kirk's death to be punished.
"I will demand their firing, defunding, and license revocation," said Florida congressman Randy Fine in a post on X on Sunday, as he called for such people to "be thrown out of civil society".
South Carolina congresswoman Nancy Mace urged the Department of Education to "cut off every dime to any school or university" that refuses to retaliate against employees making insensitive posts about Kirk.
Kirk, a devout Christian, professed viewpoints on gender, race and abortion that drew backlash from many liberals, especially on the campuses he toured.
In some cases, those who took to social media to gloat over his death or post comments that caused offence have been fired or placed on leave by employers.
Among them is Anthony Pough, a US Secret Service employee who wrote on Facebook that Kirk "spewed hate and racism on his show... at the end of the day, you answer to GOD, and speak things into existence".
He has had his security clearance revoked.
Secret Service Director Sean Curran wrote in a memo to staff that politically motivated attacks are on the rise and members of the protective detail should not be exacerbating the issue.
"The men and women of the Secret Service must be focused on being the solution, not adding to the problem," Curran wrote.
Americans employed by private companies have also come under scrutiny. Office Depot fired employees at a Michigan branch after a viral video showed staff refusing to print posters for a Kirk vigil, the company confirmed to the BBC in a statement.
A spokesperson for Office Depot said the employees' behaviour "was completely unacceptable and insensitive", and violated the company's policies.
 

YorkshireBear

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I see now that the Charlie Kirk suspects partner was transgender, which FBI have confirmed.... That's not going to help this at all.

Link to BBC live feed and relevant expert quoted below.

Link Here

Jeff Gray is now reading out messages between Robinson and his roommate, who provided the texts to the police.

The pair were in a romantic relationship, Gray says, and the roommate is a biological male who is undergoing a gender transition.

Robinson sent a message to his roommate saying "Drop what you're doing, look under my keyboard."

Under the keyboard there was a note from Robinson which said: "I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk, and I'm going to take it."

The roommate responded by saying: "What? You're joking."

Gray reads out messages between the pair, as Robinson attempts to evade police and gives the roommate updates about his movement.

At one point Robinson allegedly texted, referring to Kirk: "I've had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out."

Robinson also wrote: "To be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry to involve you."

The roommate replied: "you weren't the one who did it right????"

Robinson replied: "I am, I'm sorry."

The roommate said: "I thought they caught the person?"

Robinson replied: "no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in similar clothing".
 

Gloster

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I wonder if we are going to have the embarrassing, to put it politely, situation of Trump making inflammatory statements while on British soil. Even worse, he might make them when he is standing next to Starmer or, worse again, the King.

Perhaps that is why the Queen is ill.
 

ainsworth74

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I wonder if we are going to have the embarrassing, to put it politely, situation of Trump making inflammatory statements while on British soil. Even worse, he might make them when he is standing next to Starmer or, worse again, the King.
Considering Trumps mental state these days that's surely nailed on. The main question is whether either of them will actually do the right thing when it happens and call it out.
 

brad465

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The main thing Trump will get out of this trip is discussing alibis and getting antiperspirant advice, though the former has been made harder now Mandelson isn't on the scene.
 

Purple Train

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Glad to say that I gave Trump a suitably rousing welcome to Windsor this lunchtime. There weren't many protesters, but all the signs on offer were excellent. I had such a good time I might toddle down to the castle tomorrow as well! What I did find interesting was the reaction from the majority of the crowd towards those wearing MAGA outfits - I was expecting confrontation, but there was merely a lot of wryly amused collective eye-rolling instead. I rather liked that.
 

edwin_m

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The main thing Trump will get out of this trip is discussing alibis and getting antiperspirant advice, though the former has been made harder now Mandelson isn't on the scene.
They're keeping Andrew out of the way too, not that he could help with that.
Will JD Vance be complaining about this restriction of free speech (or technically projection)?
He seems to do enough projection of his own.
 

GusB

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Will JD Vance be complaining about this restriction of free speech (or technically projection)?
I wonder if the projection in question is this one from Led By Donkeys:


*Edit* It was the video by Led By Donkeys that was projected onto Windsor Castle the day before Trump's visit, documenting Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Transcript quoted below:

This is Windsor Castle, home of the

British royal family, where Donald Trump

is staying during his state visit. And

this is a film about Trump's

relationship with the world's most

famous pedophile, Jeffrey Epstein. Their

friendship goes back to at least 1992

when the two of them are filmed laughing

together. Trump can be seen making

friendly conversation with Epstein in

between clips of Trump smiling and

dancing with a group of young women at

his Marilago resort in Florida. The

following year, they attend a cafe

opening together. And a month after

that, Trump invites Epstein to his

wedding. In 1995, a young woman called

Maria Farmer is working for Epstein in

Manhattan. Late one night, she says,

Epstein unexpectedly calls her to his

offices and she arrives in running

shorts. Donald Trump then turns up

wearing a business suit and starts to

hover over her. Miss Farmer feels scared

as Trump stares at her bare legs. Then

Epste enters the room and she recalls

him saying to Trump, "No, no, she's not

here for you." The two men then leave

the room and Miss Farmer says she heard

Trump commenting that he thought Miss

Farmer was 16 years old. She says she

later reported the incident to the

authorities. Trump denies he was ever in

Epstein's office. 1993 to 1997,

Trump takes at least eight flights on

Epstein's private jet, according to

flight logs released by the US

Department of Justice. The plane is

later dubbed the Lolita Express, a

reference to the character in the

Nabacov novel by the same name, a

12-year-old child who is sexually abused

by an older man. 1997, Trump and Epste

are seen together at two Victoria's

Secret parties and are photographed

together at Mara Lago. The same year,

Trump gifts a book to Epstein with the

dedication to Jeff. You are the

greatest, Donald. 2000, a 16-year-old

girl, Virginia Ju is working in the spa

at Trump's Mara Lago resort. There, she

is recruited by Epstein's accomplice,

Gileain Maxwell, to work as a personal

masseuse for Epstein. The teenager will

soon become, in her words, a teen sex

slave and will endure years of sexual

abuse.

I was recruited at a very young age from

Mara Lago and entrapped in a world that

I didn't understand. 25 years later,

Trump will acknowledge he was aware that

young women were being recruited from

Mara Lago by Epstein.

Were some of them young women? Well, I

don't want to say, but uh everyone knows

the people that were taken and uh it was

the concept of taking people that work

for me is bad, but uh that story has

been pretty well out there and the

answer is yes, they were.

Trump is then asked if one of them was

Virginia Ju. I think she worked at the

spa.

I think so. I think that was one of the

people. Yeah, he he stole her.

Two years later, after Ju was recruited

from his club by Epstein and Maxwell,

Trump tells New York magazine he thinks

that Epstein is a quote terrier guy and

that they have known each other for 15

years. He's a lot of fun to be with,

Trump says. It is even said that he

likes beautiful women as much as I do

and many of them are on the younger

side. 2003. Trump draws a message in a

book made for Epstein's 50th birthday.

The drawing depicts a woman's breasts

and is accompanied by text written by

Trump to Epstein that includes the line,

quote, "We have certain things in

common, Jeffrey." End quote. Trump signs

off by saying, quote, "Happy birthday,

and may every day be another wonderful

secret. A Donald signature is written in

the place of pubic hair." 22 years

later, Trump will begin legal action

against the Wall Street Journal over

their reporting of the drawing, claiming

it doesn't exist. Epstein's estate then

releases the drawing to Congress.

Another entry in the birthday book

contains a photo of Epstein holding a

novelty check bearing Donald Trump's

signature along with a note suggesting

Epstein quote unquote sold Trump, a

woman, for $22,500.

It's unclear if the photo and

accompanying note is a joke or not.

2004, the two men fall out and their

close relationship ends. The reason for

their arangement, they both tried to buy

the same Palm Beach mansion. 2005,

police in Palm Beach begin investigating

Epstein after a 14-year-old child

reports he molested her at his mansion.

2008, Epstein pleads guilty to state

charges in Florida, including procuring

a child for prostitution and

solicitation of prostitution. The

sweetheart plea deal agreed by US

Attorney Alex Aosta includes a

nonprosecution agreement giving Epstein

immunity from possible federal charges.

He is sentenced to just 18 months in

jail. Under the plea deal, Epstein is

allowed to be out of jail from 8:00 a.m.

to 8:00 p.m. 6 days a week and has his

own driver to take him to and from his

office. 2010. In a legal deposition,

Epstein is asked about his relationship

with Donald Trump. Have you ever had a

personal relationship with Donald Trump?

What do you mean by personal

relationships?

Have you socialized with him?

Yes, sir.

Yes.

Yes, sir.

Have you ever socialized with Donald

Trump in the presence of

females under the age of 18?

though I'd like to answer that question

at least today. I'm going to have to

assert my fifth, sixth, and 14th

amendment rights, sir. By the way, this

was around about the time that Prince

Andrew was photographed walking with

Epstein in Central Park, 2016. According

to award-winning CBS News producer Ira

Rosen, Maxwell confirms to him that

Epstein secretly taped his famous

friends, including Trump and Bill

Clinton. February 2017, Donald Trump,

now president of the United States,

nominates Alex Aosta, the man behind

Epstein's sweetheart plea deal, to be

his secretary of labor. August 2017,

Epstein conducts a series of taped

interviews with the journalist Michael

Wolf, research for a potential book Wolf

hopes to write. In the interviews,

Epstein claims Trump first slept with

Melania on the Lolita Express and also

says he was Trump's closest friend for a

decade.

So, how do you know this?

That was closest friend.

July 2019, Epstein is arrested in New

York on federal sex trafficking charges.

The truth about his decadesl long

history of child abuse is finally being

widely reported. A month later, he's

found dead in his jail cell. The

authorities declare his death a suicide.

2020 Maxwell is charged with federal

crimes for helping recruit underage

girls for Epstein and participating in

the abuse herself. Trump is asked about

the charges and replies.

I just wish her well, frankly. Uh I've

met her numerous times over the years,

especially since I lived in Palm Beach

and I guess they lived in Palm Beach. Uh

but I wish her well. 2024. Asked about

whether he would release the so-called

Epstein files, information about

Epstein's crimes and potentially his

famous accompllices, Trump seems unsure.

Would you declassify the 9/11 um files?

Yeah.

Would you declassify JFK files?

Yeah.

Would you

I did I did a lot of it.

Would you declassify the Epstein files?

Yeah. Yeah, I would.

All right.

I guess I would. I think that less so

because you know you don't know it's you

don't want to affect people's lives if

it's phony stuff in there because

there's a lot of phony stuff with that

whole world.

2025 Trump is now president again and

his administration blocks release of the

Epstein files. It is soon revealed that

his attorney general Pam Bondi told

Trump in May that his name is in the

files before authorizing the release of

a handful of transcripts only. Trump's

one-time personal lawyer, now Deputy

Attorney General Todd Blanch, then meets

Gla Maxwell in prison for nine hours

amid speculation of a quidd proquo to

protect Trump. Days later, Maxwell is

moved to a low security prison famous

for its comfortable conditions and known

as clubfed.

This is what we know. The president of

the United States was a longtime close

friend of America's most notorious child

sex trafficker. He's alleged to be

mentioned numerous times in the files

arising from the investigation into that

child sex trafficker. And now he is back

in office. The US federal government

appears to be doing all it can to

prevent the American public from

learning fully about the president's

relationship with the country's most

notorious child sex trafficker. Now that

President Donald Trump is sleeping here

in Windsor Castle.
 
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Harpo

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A satirist has had his TV shows cancelled for insulting the Dear Leader and MAGA. Trump is very pleased.

Kimmel said in his Monday night monologue: "The Maga Gang desperately trying to characterise this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it."
"This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he calls a friend. This is how a four-year-old mourns a goldfish," said Kimmel, who has often poked fun at Trump.
 

ainsworth74

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bUt fReE sPeEcH
The far right (and, to be fair, the far left but they're not in power at the moment) have never been interested in actual free speech. What they are interested in is ensuring that opinions and views which reflect their own are given maximum amplification whilst ensuring the views of those that they disagree with are curtailed, silenced and ideally suppressed. They just light to wrap themselves in the banner of "free speech" to conceal what they're actually trying to do.

I must admit it remains quite remarkable though how quickly civil society is folding to the whims of Trump and his acolytes. They behave as if he's already an absolute dictator and in that behaviour help to ensure that he will be.

The United States truly is lost at this point I reckon. Part of me just wishes they'd get on with it and either have the collapse into outright authoritarian hellscape with all the camps, deaths and so on that is clearly coming. Or get on with street violence and civil war. It's this waiting for the other shoe to drop that's interminable.
 

sor

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Another free speech update - an ABC (no, not the one that Kimmel works for) journalist asked Dear Leader an inconvenient question when he was still in the US, and the UK government has decided to fold in its own way by refusing access to a no10 press conference. Hopefully other journalists ask what's going on.


The ABC has been barred from attending Donald Trump’s press conference near London this week after a clash between the broadcaster’s Americas editor, John Lyons, and the president in Washington DC over his business dealings.

The Australian broadcaster said its London bureau was informed by Downing Street that its accreditation to attend the press conference had been withdrawn for “logistical reasons”.

I was OK with the initial schmoozing and the invite of the state visit because it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, if it made Trump happy then whatever. But I am not OK with our government helping to enforce his petty grievances.
 

AlterEgo

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A satirist has had his TV shows cancelled for insulting the Dear Leader and MAGA. Trump is very pleased.



So we can at least expect not to be lectured about free speech for a little while. We don't need reminding what happens to you if you're a troll with controversial opinions in an open space in America as opposed to Britain too. Enjoy your free speech over there lads.
 

ainsworth74

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I was OK with the initial schmoozing and the invite of the state visit because it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, if it made Trump happy then whatever. But I am not OK with our government helping to enforce his petty grievances.
Quite, it's pathetic that we're helping to protect him from his own grievances. Schmooze him fine, I imagine everyone involved in the schmoozing feels similar to how we feel. But protecting him by arresting protesters for spurious reasons and then barring journalists for made up reasons? Grow a spine.
So we can at least expect not to be lectured about free speech for a little while.
If you believe that can I interest you in a bridge I have available for sale? :lol:
 

najaB

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The United States truly is lost at this point I reckon. Part of me just wishes they'd get on with it and either have the collapse into outright authoritarian hellscape with all the camps, deaths and so on that is clearly coming. Or get on with street violence and civil war. It's this waiting for the other shoe to drop that's interminable.
As recently as a a couple of weeks ago I was of the opinion that it could be saved. "Was" being the key word.

The fact that Brian Kilmeade was able to openly say that unhoused people should be given "involuntary lethal injections" and still has his job says it all. And, predictably, there was a mass shooting at a homeless encampment and a couple of people were lynched.
 

Harpo

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The far right (and, to be fair, the far left but they're not in power at the moment) have never been interested in actual free speech. What they are interested in is ensuring that opinions and views which reflect their own are given maximum amplification whilst ensuring the views of those that they disagree with are curtailed, silenced and ideally suppressed. They just light to wrap themselves in the banner of "free speech" to conceal what they're actually trying to do.
I’m not sure Trump’s trying to conceal it any more:
"I have read some place that the networks were 97% against me, again, 97% negative, and yet I won and easily [in last year's election]," the president said. They give me only bad publicity [and] press. I mean, they're getting a licence. I would think maybe their licence should be taken away."
 

AlterEgo

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He's gone and we didn't get lectured about freedom of speech this time. He's back home now trying to get journalists and TV channels taken off the air.
 

Bayum

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My main concern is Trump’s impact on British politics. Though we may see his comments and diatribe through tinted lenses, there will be a significant majority of people who would align themselves with Reform if Trump decided to interfere. We’ve already seen his comments regarding Saddiq Khan and, whilst justified in some people’s eyes, the rhetoric with which it was delivered is undeniably a lie. Farage and Trump would be extremely bad news for all of politics.
 

Annetts key

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....and then they'll come for the YouTube channels. Beware! ;)
And then the forums and social media...

The USA media has to be a bit careful, but if they roll over and don't fight political control, well, then truly the USA as we know it is lost.
 

ainsworth74

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The USA media has to be a bit careful, but if they roll over and don't fight political control, well, then truly the USA as we know it is lost.
All signs suggest that the media is going to roll over. The wealthy owners and executives appear to have no interest in doing anything that might threaten their accumulation of more wealth and power. So they'll ride the authoritarian wagon as far as they can. Even if it will probably lead them to their own doom eventually. Which as The Atlantic covered a few months ago is exactly what happened to many German industrialists who thought they could ride the Nazi tiger to great riches and instead ended up concentration camps or facing charges for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

He was among the richest men in the world. He made his first fortune in heavy industry. He made his second as a media mogul. And in January 1933, in exchange for a political favor, Alfred Hugenberg provided the electoral capital that made possible Adolf Hitler’s appointment as chancellor. Before Hugenberg sealed his pact with Hitler, a close associate had warned Hugenberg that this was a deal he would come to regret: “One night you will find yourself running through the ministry gardens in your underwear trying to escape arrest.”

[...]

In the ’20s and early ’30s, the Hitler “brand” was anathema to capitalists and corporate elites. His National Socialist German Worker’s Party was belligerently nationalistisch but also unapologetically sozialistisch—a true Arbeiter Partei, or “working man’s party.” Its 25-point political platform explicitly targeted bankers and financiers, calling for “breaking the bondage of interest,” as well as industrialists who profited from wartime production. Profits were to be confiscated by the state without compensation, and corporate executives charged with treason. Platform Point 13 was explicit: “We demand the nationalization of all existing corporate entities.”

Through the 1920s, businessmen preferred to place their political bets with conservative, centrist, business-friendly politicians, such as those in the Center Party or the Bavarian People’s Party or the right-wing but decidedly pro-business German Nationalists. Out of necessity, then, the National Socialists had to derive most of their financing via membership fees, storm troopers standing on street corners begging for contributions, and admission charges to Hitler rallies. Among the exceptions to this were socialites—Viktoria von Dirksen, Helene Bechstein, Elsa Bruckmann—who were smitten with Hitler. But the most significant exception was Fritz Thyssen.

Thyssen, heir to one of Germany’s leading industrial fortunes, had been an early financier of the Nazi movement. He first met Hitler in the autumn of 1923 after attending a beer-hall rally. “It was then that I realised his oratorical gifts and his ability to lead the masses,” Thyssen recalled in his 1941 memoir, I Paid Hitler. “What impressed me most, however, was the order that reigned in his meetings, the almost military discipline of his followers.” Thyssen provided the party, by his own estimate, approximately 1 million reichsmarks—more than $5 million today—and also helped finance the acquisition and refurbishment of a Munich palace as the Nazi Party headquarters. Most important, Thyssen arranged for Hitler to speak to his fellow industrialists in Düsseldorf on January 27, 1932.

“The speech made a deep impression on the assembled industrialists,” Thyssen said, “and in consequence of this a number of large contributions flowed from the resources of heavy industry into the treasuries of the National Socialist party.” This financing, estimated at a still-cautious 2 million marks annually, was channeled through a trusted intermediary: Alfred Hugenberg.


Hugenberg had served as a director of Krupp A.G., the large steelmaker and arms manufacturer, during the Great War, and had subsequently founded the Telegraph Union, a conglomerate of 1,400 associated newspapers intended to provide a conservative bulwark against the liberal, pro-democracy press. Hugenberg also bought controlling shares in the country’s largest movie studio, enabling him to have film and the press work together to advance his right-wing, antidemocratic agenda. A reporter for Vossische Zeitung, a leading centrist daily newspaper, observed that Hugenberg was “the great disseminator of National Socialist ideas to an entire nation through newspapers, books, magazines and films.”

To this end, Hugenberg practiced what he called Katastrophenpolitk, “the politics of catastrophe,” by which he sought to polarize public opinion and the political parties with incendiary news stories, some of them Fabrikationen—entirely fabricated articles intended to cause confusion and outrage. According to one such story, the government was enslaving German teenagers and selling them to its allies in order to service its war debt. Hugenberg calculated that by hollowing out the political center, political consensus would become impossible and the democratic system would collapse. As a right-wing delegate to the Reichstag, Hugenberg proposed a “freedom law” that called for the liberation of the German people from the shackles of democracy and from the onerous provisions of the Versailles Treaty. The law called for the treaty signatories to be tried and hanged for treason, along with government officials involved with implementing the treaty provisions. The French ambassador in Berlin called Hugenberg “one of the most evil geniuses of Germany.”

[...]

German corporations, large and small, helped retool the Weimar Republic as the Third Reich. Ferdinand Porsche designed the Volkswagen, a “car for the people.” Mercedes-Benz provided Hitler and his chief lieutenants with bulletproof sedans. Hugo Boss designed the black uniforms for the SS. Krupp supplied armaments. Miele produced munitions. Allianz provided insurance for concentration camps. J.A. Topf & Sons manufactured crematoria ovens. A dismayed executive at Deutsche Bank, which was involved in the expropriation of Jewish businesses, sent a letter to the chairman of his supervisory board: “I fear we are embarking on an explicit, well- planned path toward the annihilation of all Jews in Germany.”

For the industrialists who helped finance and supply the Hitler government, an unexpected return on their investment was slave labor. By the early 1940s, the electronics giant Siemens AG was employing more than 80,000 slave laborers. (An official Siemens history explains that although the head of the firm, Carl Friedrich von Siemens, was “a staunch advocate of democracy” who “detested the Nazi dictatorship,” he was also “responsible for ensuring the company’s well-being and continued existence.”)

By October 1942, I.G. Farben and its subsidiaries were using slave laborers in 23 locations. The life expectancy of inmates at an I.G. Farben facility at Auschwitz was less than four months; more than 25,000 people lost their lives on the construction site alone. As corporate practices adapted to evolving political realities, the company aligned its wide technological and human resources with government priorities. Jews were purged from the corporate ranks. The I.G. Farben pharmaceutical division, Bayer, supported Nazi medical experiments. A postwar affidavit alleges that Bayer paid 170 reichsmarks for 150 female Auschwitz prisoners. “The transport of 150 women arrived in good condition,” the affidavit reads. “However, we were unable to obtain conclusive results because they died during the experiments,” and “we would kindly request that you send us another group of women to the same number and at the same price.” Although recent investigations have questioned the veracity of this particular affidavit, Bayer’s involvement in medical experimentation on Auschwitz inmates is undisputed.

The I.G. Farben company Degussa owned a chemical subsidiary that produced a cyanide-based pesticide known as Zyklon B, used primarily for fumigating ships, warehouses, and trains—and, after 1942, as a homicidal agent at Nazi extermination facilities. Company logs confirm the delivery of an estimated 56 tons of Zyklon B from 1942 to 1944; more than 23.8 tons were sent to Auschwitz, where it served as the primary instrument of death for the more than 1 million Jewish people murdered there.

In August 1947, 24 senior I.G. Farben managers were placed on trial for their role in Nazi aggression and atrocity. In his opening statement before the court, the prosecutor Telford Taylor said of these executives, “They were the magicians who made the fantasies of Mein Kampf come true. They were the guardians of the military and state secrets.” The 15,638 pages of courtroom testimony, along with the 6,384 documents submitted as evidence—purchase orders, internal memos, board minutes—indicated that these Farben executives knew the exact number of airplane and truck tires, the running feet of tank tread, the amount of explosives, as well as the precise number of canisters of Zyklon B gas delivered to Auschwitz. The defense attorney for the chairman of I.G. Farben’s supervisory board argued that his client was “no robber, no plunderer, no slave dealer,” but rather just a 60-year-old senior executive doing what senior executives were paid to do—run the company with an eye to the bottom line. If he collaborated with the government, it was out of “a feeling of personal responsibility to the company.” Twenty-three I.G. Farben directors were eventually charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity; 13 of them were convicted and sentenced to prison.

At the International War Crimes Tribunal in Nuremberg in 1945, Gustav Krupp was indicted as a major war criminal alongside the likes of Göring and Hans Frank, but he was too ill to stand trial. Instead, his son was tried in 1947, in The United States of America v. Alfried Krupp, et al. The indictment charged the younger Krupp, alongside 11 Krupp corporate directors, with crimes against humanity and war crimes, for participating in “the murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, imprisonment, torture, and use for slave labor of civilians.” Alfried Krupp reportedly never expressed remorse, at one point telling a war-crimes trial observer, “We Krupps never cared much about political ideas. We only wanted a system that worked well and allowed us to work unhindered. Politics is not our business.”

Ss for Alfred Hugenberg? Unlike other early private-sector Hitler enablers such as Fritz Thyssen and Hjalmar Schacht—both of whom ended up in concentration camps after crossing Hitler—Hugenberg got off lightly. Hugenberg withdrew to his sprawling estate, Rohbraken, in the former feudal province of Lippe, where he lived as the local regent while his business empire was gradually whittled away.

[...]


The modern day oligarchs who are currently kowtowing to Trump and the GOP would do well to remember what happened to their German equivalents 80/90 odd years ago.
 

DarloRich

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The modern day oligarchs who are currently kowtowing to Trump and the GOP would do well to remember what happened to their German equivalents 80/90 odd years ago.
but they were German and not American........................

The United States truly is lost at this point I reckon. Part of me just wishes they'd get on with it and either have the collapse into outright authoritarian hellscape with all the camps, deaths and so on that is clearly coming. Or get on with street violence and civil war. It's this waiting for the other shoe to drop that's interminable.
All of the American nonsense is coming here, just with fewer guns, under Farage.
 

Gloster

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All signs suggest that the media is going to roll over. The wealthy owners and executives appear to have no interest in doing anything that might threaten their accumulation of more wealth and power. So they'll ride the authoritarian wagon as far as they can. Even if it will probably lead them to their own doom eventually. Which as The Atlantic covered a few months ago is exactly what happened to many German industrialists who thought they could ride the Nazi tiger to great riches and instead ended up concentration camps or facing charges for war crimes and crimes against humanity.




The modern day oligarchs who are currently kowtowing to Trump and the GOP would do well to remember what happened to their German equivalents 80/90 odd years ago.

The trouble is that nowadays the very, very rich (add as many verys as you want) believe that their money will insulate them from the results and prevent them suffering the consequences. Sadly, they are probably right.
 

najaB

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The trouble is that nowadays the very, very rich (add as many verys as you want) believe that their money will insulate them from the results and prevent them suffering the consequences. Sadly, they are probably right.
The likes of Louis XVI probably thought so too.
 

Annetts key

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The trouble is that nowadays the very, very rich (add as many verys as you want) believe that their money will insulate them from the results and prevent them suffering the consequences. Sadly, they are probably right.
No. Because when they are no longer considered "useful", they will be removed. Both to prevent them from being a potential threat and so that their assets and wealth can be "repurposed" (stolen).
 

brad465

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Trump has added a $100,000 dollar fee to H1B visa applicants (their high skilled visa programme). No doubt will cheer up many of the anti-immigration core, until they find out how important they are to the US economy when many of its workers leave/don't arrive, to point I can see a TACO moment coming:


US President Donald Trump has signed an executive order that will add a $100,000 (£74,000) annual fee for applicants to the H-1B visa programme for skilled foreign workers.
Trump's order mentions "abuse" of the programme and will restrict entry unless payment is made.
Critics have long argued that H-1Bs undercut the American workforce, while supporters - including billionaire Elon Musk - argue it allows the US to attract top talent from around the world.
In another order, Trump set up a new "gold card" to fast-track visas for certain immigrants in exchange for fees starting at £1m.
Trump's order is due to come into force on 21 September. It would only apply to new requests, but companies would have to pay the same amount for each applicant for six years, US Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick said.
"The company needs to decide... is the person valuable enough to have a $100,000-a-year payment to the government, or they should head home, and they should go hire an American," he said, adding: "All of the big companies are on board."
Later, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt went on social media to report that the $100,000 fee would be a one-time payment.
White House spokesperson Abigail Jackson clarified to CBS News, the BBC's news partner in the US, that the fee "does not apply to anyone who has a current visa," and "only applies to future applicants in the February [2026] lottery who are currently outside the US It does not apply to anyone who participated in the 2025 lottery".
"The Proclamation does not impact the ability of any current visa holder to travel to/from the US," Jackson said.
Since 2004, the number of H-1B applications has been capped at 85,000 per year.
Until now, H-1B visas have carried various administrative fees totalling around $1,500.
Data from US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) shows that applications for H-1B visas for the next fiscal year fell to about 359,000 - a four-year low.
The greatest beneficiary of the programme the previous fiscal year was Amazon, followed by tech giants Tata, Microsoft, Meta, Apple and Google, according to government statistics.
Late on Friday, Amazon told employees with H-1B visas who were already in the US to remain there.
According to an internal advisory, seen by Business Insider, the company said those abroad should "try to return before tomorrow's deadline if possible".
Anyone unable to make it back before the order takes effect should avoid attempting US re-entry "until further guidance is provided", the company is also quoted as saying.
Meanwhile, India's leading trade body Nasscom said it was concerned by the edict - and that the one-day deadline created "considerable uncertainty for businesses, professionals, and students across the world".
 

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