Merseyrail 777 introduction

[Ellis101]

Hunts Cross to Ormskirk works well for me personally connecting into the Ormskirk to Preston service. However I do accept that Southport is a very popular destination.

I'm pretty sure its hunts cross to Southport usually for the airport connections at south parkway.

 

[MR-507508]

Cressington is far from the busiest station on the network but if that was my local station I’d be rather annoyed that the service gets chopped in half every time Everton played at home.

Saw some complaints on X about 4-cars on the Ormskirk line struggling to cope, although even if Cressington could take 8-cars, I’m not sure if they have enough units to strengthen every Ormskirk train as well as Southport.

The return of the Hunts Cross-Southport service has been put back again, to 5th January 2026, according to RTT.

I believe there were 4 x 8 cars in operation on the Southport line and 4 x 8 cars on the Ormskirk - Hunts Cross line on Saturday. I make it a total of 46 units in service out of 53 in operation across the network.

 

[childwallblues]

I believe there were 4 x 8 cars in operation on the Southport line and 4 x 8 cars on the Ormskirk - Hunts Cross line on Saturday. I make it a total of 46 units in service out of 53 in operation across the network.

Merseyrail have accepted that extra capacity is needed for the Everton home games.
It will be interesting to see what service will be provided for evening/Sunday games.

 

[Pacef8]

Although not train related i saw the ticket fiasco on Saturday at central with people being forced to Que and get a paper ticket printed for their through ticket to Sandhills . What a embarrassment , revenue officers being the big i am sending very disgruntled passengers away.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Although not train related i saw the ticket fiasco on Saturday at central with people being forced to Que and get a paper ticket printed for their through ticket to Sandhills . What a embarrassment , revenue officers being the big i am sending very disgruntled passengers away.

Sounds like they were doing their job from what you've said!
Presumably customers had bought online and issued a TOD reference for a ticket which needs collecting.

 

[childwallblues]

Although not train related i saw the ticket fiasco on Saturday at central with people being forced to Que and get a paper ticket printed for their through ticket to Sandhills . What a embarrassment , revenue officers being the big i am sending very disgruntled passengers away.

Staff doing their jobs being criticised.

 

[Sam 76]

Merseyrail have accepted that extra capacity is needed for the Everton home games.
It will be interesting to see what service will be provided for evening/Sunday games.

I feel like the case for 5 extra 777s would be stronger than ever with the need for strengthening services for big events and the ormskirk peaks

 

[Pacef8]

If merseyrail operated like the rest of the country and accepted through tickets then their would not be the animosity. Then you wouldn't need revenue officers and body cam aggression.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I feel like the case for 5 extra 777s would be stronger than ever with the need for strengthening services for big events and the ormskirk peaks

Do you think the average person in the Liverpool City Region would agree that £50 million should be spent on additional trains for a few special events? As for Ormskirk services, yes a small number can get a bit cosy in the peaks but they start thinning out by Walton and there are usually seats available after Aintree, so the cosiness is only for a few minutes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you think the average person in the Liverpool City Region would agree that £50 million should be spent on additional trains for a few special events? As for Ormskirk services, yes a small number can get a bit cosy in the peaks but they start thinning out by Walton and there are usually seats available after Aintree, so the cosiness is only for a few minutes.

An advantage of the layout of these units with wide gangways and narrow seats is that they can deal with packed standing loads for such events far better than the 507/508s could.

 

[Sam 76]

Do you think the average person in the Liverpool City Region would agree that £50 million should be spent on additional trains for a few special events? As for Ormskirk services, yes a small number can get a bit cosy in the peaks but they start thinning out by Walton and there are usually seats available after Aintree, so the cosiness is only for a few minutes.

It’s not just for the special events though. 8 cars are needed on Southport and Hunts Cross Peaks as well as Ormskirk. And I feel like Chester passengers would like a mention in that as well.

 

[FrontSideBus]

8 coaches would be nice on some of the peak Chester services too!

 

[jamesst]

8 coaches would be nice on some of the peak Chester services too!

The plan originally was for 6 Southport, 2 Ormskirk and 2 Chester diagrams to be formed of 8 cars, no idea when (or if) that's likely to actually come in though.

 

[Ellis101]

Do you think the average person in the Liverpool City Region would agree that £50 million should be spent on additional trains for a few special events? As for Ormskirk services, yes a small number can get a bit cosy in the peaks but they start thinning out by Walton and there are usually seats available after Aintree, so the cosiness is only for a few minutes.

I think most would be happy with it regardless of where the money comes from Southport - Hunts Cross always had 6 cars running in the peak, no matter what because of how busy it was/is.

The fact it was the only quick way to get from somewhere like Bootle, Seaforth and Crosby into the southern end of the city is what made it so popular, especially since the opening of Liverpool South Parkway with the Airport/Regional connections.

A lot of people would probably prefer to catch a Birmingham service from South Parkway for example than changing for the Wirral line to Lime Street.

Additionally the morning/evening peak services from around Hunts Cross - Sandhills and Vice Versa are mostly always at full capacity and has historically been the most busiest* which is why they always ran 6 cars with the 507/508s.


* This is just my judgement but I don't see why else it would've been the only line to have double sets in the peak.

 

[Prime586]

An advantage of the layout of these units with wide gangways and narrow seats is that they can deal with packed standing loads for such events far better than the 507/508s could.

As long as they don't stand near the doors....
Nexus plated over the step module access panels on their 555s with thick sheets of aluminium checkerplate in preparation for the crush loading they would see during the Great North Run (see here), obviously having learned something from the 777's issues with the panels bending under the weight of passengers and jamming the steps.

 

[Skie]

If merseyrail operated like the rest of the country and accepted through tickets then their would not be the animosity. Then you wouldn't need revenue officers and body cam aggression.

They do accept through tickets. They even accept (grudgingly) e-tickets though e-tickets shouldn’t be possible for a Merseyrail only destination.

What exactly was the issue with tickets?

As long as they don't stand near the doors....
Nexus plated over the step module access panels on their 555s with thick sheets of aluminium checkerplate in preparation for the crush loading they would see during the Great North Run (see here), obviously having learned something from the 777's issues with the panels bending under the weight of passengers and jamming the steps.

I believe the 777s have been fixed with the addition of some extra bracing under the panel. Presumably the 555s will get that but they clearly needed a faster fix. Silly that they didn’t plan it into the 555 build or introduction steps given it’s a known problem.

 

[Pacef8]

From what i saw they would not let people pass through with a barcode e-ticket.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Even with a proper ticket, the barriers sometimes don't want to play with a day ranger ect.

 

[urbophile]

Do you think the average person in the Liverpool City Region would agree that £50 million should be spent on additional trains for a few special events? As for Ormskirk services, yes a small number can get a bit cosy in the peaks but they start thinning out by Walton and there are usually seats available after Aintree, so the cosiness is only for a few minutes.

I think additional trains are needed anyway to increase the frequency across the network.

 

[Ellis101]

I think additional trains are needed anyway to increase the frequency across the network.

I remember Steve Rotherham saying in a Liverpool Echo article an increase to around every 8 minutes for the everton games (grand national style) would require digital signalling and cost hundreds of millions…


But I do agree that there should be an increase in Frequency around the board considering the 15 minute one has been the standard for about 20 years now I think?

Much much easier said than done though, the city has grown a lot since then.

 

[urbophile]

I remember Steve Rotherham saying in a Liverpool Echo article an increase to around every 8 minutes for the everton games (grand national style) would require digital signalling and cost hundreds of millions…


But I do agree that there should be an increase in Frequency around the board considering the 15 minute one has been the standard for about 20 years now I think?

Much much easier said than done though, the city has grown a lot since then.

The signalling is going to have to be replaced/upgraded some time anyway surely? A good investment if it's going to create a better service.

 

[Djgr]

The signalling is going to have to be replaced/upgraded some time anyway surely? A good investment if it's going to create a better service.

I think the current signalling dates from 1994? By the way, above is not how you spell the Mayor's name.

 

[jamesst]

I think the current signalling dates from 1994? By the way, above is not how you spell the Mayor's name.

The underground signalling system pretty much dates back to 1977. Whilst obviously the signal heads and cabelling will of been upgraded the signal positioning -esp in the loop- is hopelessly out of date

 

[Djgr]

The underground signalling system pretty much dates back to 1977. Whilst obviously the signal heads and cabelling will of been upgraded the signal positioning -esp in the loop- is hopelessly out of date

So it wasn't addressed when the Sandhills IECC was developed?

 

[Ellis101]

So it wasn't addressed when the Sandhills IECC was developed?

It opened in the early 90s and I doubt they'd of wanted to spend so much money to resignal it then, never mind getting anybody to spend a few hundred million on making Merseyrail ETCS controlled today good luck convincing taxpayers on that.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

I think the current signalling dates from 1994?

The underground signalling system pretty much dates back to 1977.

Sandhills IECC was commissioned in 1994 to replace the power signalbox in the centre of Liverpool, but the loop line was not resignalled, no. It remains two aspect signalled with trip-cock, albeit now with LED searchlight signal heads.

 

[Kite159]

I guess one issue with Sandhills is the turnback siding faces the wrong direction, otherwise they could run additional Liverpool Central - Moorfields - Sandhills extra services, but for that to work with the current layout those ECS moves will need to go towards Kirkdale depot area to reverse.

More trains will probably get ordered at some point I reckon, only to allow more services to run as 8 coaches, considering I've seen trains from Chester leaving folk behind at Hooton due to being stupidly overcrowded.

 

[Djgr]

I guess one issue with Sandhills is the turnback siding faces the wrong direction, otherwise they could run additional Liverpool Central - Moorfields - Sandhills extra services, but for that to work with the current layout those ECS moves will need to go towards Kirkdale depot area to reverse.

More trains will probably get ordered at some point I reckon, only to allow more services to run as 8 coaches, considering I've seen trains from Chester leaving folk behind at Hooton due to being stupidly overcrowded.

Liverpool to Chester and vv is rammed at the weekend.

Shoppers, tourists, stags and hens

 

[prod_pep]

The loop signalling has changed, fairly significantly, since it opened. It was originally designed to cater for a 36 trains per hour peak service which never materialised in practice (27 was as good as it got). The current arrangement permits 2-3 minute headways, just about.

I'm fairly sure these changes were made as part of the 1994 resignalling, which killed off the last remaining ex-Mersey Railway colour lights alongside the semaphores.

 

[urbophile]

More trains will probably get ordered at some point I reckon, only to allow more services to run as 8 coaches, considering I've seen trains from Chester leaving folk behind at Hooton due to being stupidly overcrowded.

If they can run more 8-coach trains at the present frequency they can surely double the frequency and run 4-coach. More staff needed of course but that's more employment opportunities.