East Anglia Bus Scene

[buslad1988]

The corollary of this is a well-used but financially marginal service gets scrapped, while a new route, with fewer potential passengers, gets supported. Should BSIP support niche routes, or serve the largest number of passengers? (Whilst accepting that there may be some game-playing by bus companies)

The thing is with services like IB’s 16 - it’s kept the same route since it’s introduction in the late 1980’s.

It’s always been a Mon-Sat daytime service with a frequency that’s fluctuated generally every 30 mins (20 mins in the 1990’s). There was a risk of total withdrawal in the early 2010’s - Ipswich Borough Council stepped in and subsidised it. In 2017 it reduced to hourly weekdays, 2 hourly Sats.

Now with this BSIP money it's back to every 30 mins running earlier and later than ever before.

What’s so different now that they realistically think it’ll be able to support itself again when the funding expires? It’s a fact that out of town retail has taken off, online shopping/home working etc.

Yes BSIP should be for things like frequency improvements (the 5 as a good example) but the 16 doesn’t really go anywhere, nor are there any new housing developments on the horizon. Why not try re-routing it?

There seems to be a reluctance from IB to connect the out of town retail parks to estates - I have a feeling this is to do with the borough council preferring people to travel via the town centre and not wanting to be seen to encourage people to shop on the outskirts. But then that’s why people use their cars and this untapped revenue stream is a missed opportunity.

 

[_sSamuel]

First's upcoming timetable changes have been discreetly posted on their website (source: https://www.firstbus.co.uk/norfolk-...bus-service-changes-ipswich-norwich-and-great), below is a summary:

Services 63,64 and 65	Service 64 retains its hourly frequency with 'improved punctuality', service 63 withdrawn and replaced by school service 963. Service 65 withdrawn, replaced by other service revisions.
Services 66 and 66A	Changes to 'improve punctuality', on Sundays one bus per hour will skip BT Adastral Park and continue to Melton (replacing the 65's Sunday trips).
Service 70	Now hourly off-peak through to Sutton Heath via Woodbridge, new later journey (funded by SCC BSIP).
Service 73	Another hourly off-peak BSIP improvement.
Services 75,77,X7 and 978	X7 and 978 withdrawn, 978 users to use services 75 and 77. Off-peak frequency maintained at every 20 minutes, but peak frequency reduced from every 15. More punctuality improvements here too.
Service 87 and 87A	87A withdrawn, all buses follow a new single route, extended to serve Reeds Way in Stowupland. Now every 40 minutes rather than the two routes providing a combined every 30 minute frequency.
Service 88	Frequency reduction to every 40 minutes off-peak, owing to 'improve punctuality'. Service now extends further into the Northield View estate in Chilton Hall.
Service 800.	Hourly extension to Rendlesham via Melton (replacing 65). New route into Town Centre via Ipswich Hospital Garrett Anderson Centre and University of Suffolk. Also direct route from One Sixth Form to London Road and vice versa (to help sort the parking issues there!).

A waste of BSIP money in my eyes, so much more could have been done, such as providing new evening services, or providing Sunday services. Instead contracted SCC routes are having their frequency boosted to the highest levels some have ever seen, but with no demand to support the improvements! The timetables are now a mess, with times being impossible to remember thanks to First's new dislike of clockface schedules! Also a shame to see service 88 decline, but that's what happens when an operator shows a complete lack of ambition to improve their services, and has such poor operational standards, with buses regularly being cancelled without communication, or services being delayed regularly (maybe the supposed 'punctuality improvements' will fix this?)'.

 

[F Great Eastern]

So in short in Suffolk:

• With Ipswich Buses we are seeing funding being thrown at some very minor improvements in areas where things have tried and failed before and to prop up services that were apparently going to withdrawn/cut back despite that seeming unlikely.
• With First we are seeing some minor improvements in some areas, but far more cuts in other areas.
• With Chambers we are seeing them produce timetables that seem to be based around operational convenience rather than where might have the most potential demand with question marks if they can deliver any uplift because of their shortage of drivers.

All in all, the BSIP funding which promised so much is delivering very little in reality.

 

[buslad1988]

First's upcoming timetable changes have been discreetly posted on their website (source: https://www.firstbus.co.uk/norfolk-...bus-service-changes-ipswich-norwich-and-great), below is a summary:

Services 63,64 and 65	Service 64 retains its hourly frequency with 'improved punctuality', service 63 withdrawn and replaced by school service 963. Service 65 withdrawn, replaced by other service revisions.
Services 66 and 66A	Changes to 'improve punctuality', on Sundays one bus per hour will skip BT Adastral Park and continue to Melton (replacing the 65's Sunday trips).
Service 70	Now hourly off-peak through to Sutton Heath via Woodbridge, new later journey (funded by SCC BSIP).
Service 73	Another hourly off-peak BSIP improvement.
Services 75,77,X7 and 978	X7 and 978 withdrawn, 978 users to use services 75 and 77. Off-peak frequency maintained at every 20 minutes, but peak frequency reduced from every 15. More punctuality improvements here too.
Service 87 and 87A	87A withdrawn, all buses follow a new single route, extended to serve Reeds Way in Stowupland. Now every 40 minutes rather than the two routes providing a combined every 30 minute frequency.
Service 88	Frequency reduction to every 40 minutes off-peak, owing to 'improve punctuality'. Service now extends further into the Northield View estate in Chilton Hall.
Service 800.	Hourly extension to Rendlesham via Melton (replacing 65). New route into Town Centre via Ipswich Hospital Garrett Anderson Centre and University of Suffolk. Also direct route from One Sixth Form to London Road and vice versa (to help sort the parking issues there!).

A waste of BSIP money in my eyes, so much more could have been done, such as providing new evening services, or providing Sunday services. Instead contracted SCC routes are having their frequency boosted to the highest levels some have ever seen, but with no demand to support the improvements! The timetables are now a mess, with times being impossible to remember thanks to First's new dislike of clockface schedules! Also a shame to see service 88 decline, but that's what happens when an operator shows a complete lack of ambition to improve their services, and has such poor operational standards, with buses regularly being cancelled without communication, or services being delayed regularly (maybe the supposed 'punctuality improvements' will fix this?)'.

There also appears to be lots of hidden route amendments within the timetables which aren’t mentioned - doesn’t help with the lack of maps of either!

The new Park & Ride route isn’t clear; seems to be serving Foxhall Road and has a timing point so assume stops?

The Felixstowes drop to every 30 minutes at rush hours, that’s going to see people crammed in! Presume that corridor has been the main target for taking the Suffolk One buses off.

Atleast with Stowmarket the peak frequency remains at every 30 minutes. I haven’t got a clue what route the 87 will take now.

What was the Village Link services appear to now be at there most frequent ever. Shocker to see such a late trip on a 70 at 1930! When the likes of the 64 finish at 1800 and Stowmarkets are early too.

Also suspect there may be a few mistakes amongst the timetables too - they have a 73 leaving Felixstowe at both 1645 and 1700 weekdays!

Guess that’s the bonus of producing most of the publicity for online, it can easily be fixed when mistakes are made.

 

[stuart81]

First increasing the 70 and 73 to hourly is bonkers, whenever I see them they are carrying nothing but fresh air!

Feels like the Felixstowes and Stowmarkets are in decline, can see the Felixstowes going half hourly and Stowmarkets hourly in the future

 

[F Great Eastern]

First increasing the 70 and 73 to hourly is bonkers, whenever I see them they are carrying nothing but fresh air!

Feels like the Felixstowes and Stowmarkets are in decline, can see the Felixstowes going half hourly and Stowmarkets hourly in the future

The thing is that SCC need to take some flak for this as well as they are approving BSIP grants for routes that shouldn't be and vice versa.

 

[buslad1988]

The thing is that SCC need to take some flak for this as well as they are approving BSIP grants for routes that shouldn't be and vice versa.

Precisely this. What’s also daft is that the Felixstowe corridor is supposed to be one of the priorities on the BSIP - they wanted to speed up journey times, increase frequency and provide earlier and later buses.

This latest change has seen that corridor do the total opposite!

Felixstowe is a rapidly expanding town. If they don’t address this issue quickly it’ll become a car dependent town and they’ll never win passengers back.

 

[gingerheid]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2025 ==

When an operator knows that there is likely to be some money around (and let's be frank, over the last 10-15 years that's not been often), of course you are going to get someone which are going to say that they are going to withdraw services unless they get funding, in the hope that the service gets propped up with said funding. .

This is where the local authority has to be canny and realise that it's no coincidence that services that haven't been spoken about being under threat over the years, suddenly become in need of funding as soon as companies realise that they might get it if they play that card.

That is why in my view BSIP funds should be primarily used for expanding services and running new ones where there currently are no or very sparse services, rather than being used to prop up existing services like you say.

This is perhaps being demonstrated in Cambridge too. It almost appears that Stagecoach has decided how many buses they will operate, and that for every "Tiger" bus they get to put on the road; an existing commercial bus will come off the road!

 

[stuart81]

The thing is that SCC need to take some flak for this as well as they are approving BSIP grants for routes that shouldn't be and vice versa.

Absolutely agree with you, quite frankly it's an terrible waste of money.

Precisely this. What’s also daft is that the Felixstowe corridor is supposed to be one of the priorities on the BSIP - they wanted to speed up journey times, increase frequency and provide earlier and later buses.

This latest change has seen that corridor do the total opposite!

Felixstowe is a rapidly expanding town. If they don’t address this issue quickly it’ll become a car dependent town and they’ll never win passengers back.

I'm at a loss to explain this, it feels from First's explanation that the 20 minute frequency was potentially under threat. Stowmarket is also expanding and a 40 minute frequency really isn't good enough.

It'll be interesting to see if additional vehicles are required for Ipswich, pretty much everything interworks so impossible to work out at the minute

 

[buslad1988]

Absolutely agree with you, quite frankly it's an terrible waste of money.

I'm at a loss to explain this, it feels from First's explanation that the 20 minute frequency was potentially under threat. Stowmarket is also expanding and a 40 minute frequency really isn't good enough.

It'll be interesting to see if additional vehicles are required for Ipswich, pretty much everything interworks so impossible to work out at the minute

I guess SCC would equally blame the operators for not coming up with some more interesting ideas. Go Ahead did bid for a Bury St Edmunds - Stowmarket - Ipswich route but were unsuccessful; now this would have been beneficial and a step forward! Not least it would have plugged some of the gaps First are now leaving on that corridor.

There’s such a lack of ambition and innovation across Suffolk, it’s sad to see. Who’d have thought Ipswich would have had the first guided busway all those years ago?! Superoute 66 was 24 hours, Superoute 88 (and its variations) had the whole of mid Suffolk pretty much covered.

I’m sure SCC were criticised before when they put their original bid in for ‘bus back better’ being told their proposals weren’t bold or radical enough.

With the Park & Ride serving Foxhall Road (albeit not properly stopping) that’ll be 8 bph up/down between them and IB’s 5.

Woodbridge Road in contrast has seen drastic cutbacks over the years. At its height IB’s 11 was 4 bph and First was 8 bph - both operators are now half those figures (not to mention IB’s midibuses that cut in and out of the back roads in that area) and Martlesham Park & Ride that was 5 bph.

 

[rick_suffolk]

Madness prevails it seems. Aldeburgh-Leiston-Saxmundham now has 4 (mostly empty) buses per hour - services 64/521/522 - many double deckers. Ridiculously overbussed. Yet many villages nearby have nothing.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I have to confess that I don't know Suffolk much at all, though I did manage to fit in a trip just before Christmas on some of FECs routes. These are really quite retrograde steps - every 40 mins to Stowmarket seems non-sensical to me but that basically because of the loss of clockface timings, and the downgrading of the Felixstowe corridor. These are areas where you think BSIP money should be making an improvement. I can only agree with many of the statements above from various posters.

There seems to be a disparity in what BSIP should be used for. To my mind, it should be to pump-prime existing services that have a reasonable chance of being reasonably sustainable, not for frittering away on flights of fancy and rural basket cases. Sending double the number of Streetlites around rural Woodbridge and adjoining villages is wasting money. You don't have to look too far to the North (as someone mentioned) to see what Norfolk are doing in making long term improvements to routes - a much more sensible blend of enhancing daytime and evening/Sunday services together with infrastructure developments.

 

[Magdalia]

This is perhaps being demonstrated in Cambridge too. It almost appears that Stagecoach has decided how many buses they will operate, and that for every "Tiger" bus they get to put on the road; an existing commercial bus will come off the road!

Stagecoach drivers can't drive two buses at once.

There seems to be a disparity in what BSIP should be used for. To my mind, it should be to pump-prime existing services that have a reasonable chance of being reasonably sustainable, not for frittering away on flights of fancy and rural basket cases. Sending double the number of Streetlites around rural Woodbridge and adjoining villages is wasting money. You don't have to look too far to the North (as someone mentioned) to see what Norfolk are doing in making long term improvements to routes - a much more sensible blend of enhancing daytime and evening/Sunday services together with infrastructure developments.

If/when Suffolk and Norfolk get a combined mayor the disparity between Suffolk and Norfolk may get resolved.

 

[buslad1988]

If/when Suffolk and Norfolk get a combined mayor the disparity between Suffolk and Norfolk may get resolved.

It’s a case of when and it will be very interesting to see - none of the mayoral candidates seem to have buses on their agenda unlike in other places; likely down to expense and provision being so mixed here.

I’d hope when it does happen transport policy will be more skewed from Norfolk. In general their bus stop presentation, priority schemes etc. come across as far superior to Suffolks. They’re clearly getting things right as they’re wining bigger and better bids for electric buses, BSIP etc.

This will also be the first area where a mayor inherits an already established municipal company in Ipswich Buses… so what happens with them? Is it an asset they’d want to cash in and sell off? Or would they try to expand it - one things for certain it needs A LOT of investment!

 

[Man of Kent]

The Mayor is not taking on the functions of Ipswich Borough Council. These, and ownership of the bus fleet, will pass to one of the (likely 3) new unitary authorities.

It's already the case that Nottingham City Council retains majority ownership of its municipal operator, despite the oversight of the East Midlands Combined County Authority.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If/when Suffolk and Norfolk get a combined mayor the disparity between Suffolk and Norfolk may get resolved.

I’d hope when it does happen transport policy will be more skewed from Norfolk. In general their bus stop presentation, priority schemes etc. come across as far superior to Suffolks. They’re clearly getting things right as they’re wining bigger and better bids for electric buses, BSIP etc.

One can only hope that the overall standard is nearer to Norfolk's that to Suffolk who seem to have lost interest in buses about 15 years ago.

 

[Mollman]

It’s a case of when and it will be very interesting to see - none of the mayoral candidates seem to have buses on their agenda unlike in other places; likely down to expense and provision being so mixed here.

I’d hope when it does happen transport policy will be more skewed from Norfolk. In general their bus stop presentation, priority schemes etc. come across as far superior to Suffolks. They’re clearly getting things right as they’re wining bigger and better bids for electric buses, BSIP etc.

This will also be the first area where a mayor inherits an already established municipal company in Ipswich Buses… so what happens with them? Is it an asset they’d want to cash in and sell off? Or would they try to expand it - one things for certain it needs A LOT of investment!

Actually the East Midlands Mayor has Nottingham City Transport in her patch. One suspects that is part of the reason why she is not interested in franchising at the minute.

 

[stuart81]

There also appears to be lots of hidden route amendments within the timetables which aren’t mentioned - doesn’t help with the lack of maps of either!

The new Park & Ride route isn’t clear; seems to be serving Foxhall Road and has a timing point so assume stops?

The Felixstowes drop to every 30 minutes at rush hours, that’s going to see people crammed in! Presume that corridor has been the main target for taking the Suffolk One buses off.

Atleast with Stowmarket the peak frequency remains at every 30 minutes. I haven’t got a clue what route the 87 will take now.

What was the Village Link services appear to now be at there most frequent ever. Shocker to see such a late trip on a 70 at 1930! When the likes of the 64 finish at 1800 and Stowmarkets are early too.

Also suspect there may be a few mistakes amongst the timetables too - they have a 73 leaving Felixstowe at both 1645 and 1700 weekdays!

Guess that’s the bonus of producing most of the publicity for online, it can easily be fixed when mistakes are made.

The map for the 800 is now on bustimes, it goes down Foxhall Road and up/down Back Hamlet in both directions!!

 

[F Great Eastern]

Ipswich Buses have had 4x Brand New Enviro 400MMCs delivered in the boring white livery.

Are they leased or have the council given them a bundle of cash?

 

[buslad1988]

Ipswich Buses have had 4x Brand New Enviro 400MMCs delivered in the boring white livery.

Are they leased or have the council given them a bundle of cash?

Presumably they’d of used a lot of the BSIP cash for these. They usually prefer to buy and not lease - guess it depends where they’ve been sourced.

Hoping they haven’t got seatbelts but a lot of the dealer stock seems to come with them!

 

[Kartenga]

Presumably they’d of used a lot of the BSIP cash for these. They usually prefer to buy and not lease - guess it depends where they’ve been sourced.

Hoping they haven’t got seatbelts but a lot of the dealer stock seems to come with them!

It has been stated by Ipswich buses press releases and Suffolk county council press releases that the BSIP for Ipswich Buses was foroutes and buses.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Presumably they’d of used a lot of the BSIP cash for these. They usually prefer to buy and not lease - guess it depends where they’ve been sourced.

Hoping they haven’t got seatbelts but a lot of the dealer stock seems to come with them!

I doubt BSIP cash would be given as a capital grant to an operator to buy buses. Far more likely they will be owned by Ipswich Buses albeit financed through the local authority owner or a commercial finance company.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Ipswich Buses have had 4x Brand New Enviro 400MMCs delivered in the boring white livery.

Are they leased or have the council given them a bundle of cash?

Slightly baffling that they are apparently 15-18, when the secondhand Enviro 400 MMCs were 5-7. Have I missed some acquisitions in-between?

 

[buslad1988]

Slightly baffling that they are apparently 15-18, when the secondhand Enviro 400 MMCs were 5-7. Have I missed some acquisitions in-between?

As mentioned before, none of the fleet numbering makes any sense now!

My only assumption would be that they intend to fill the gap of 8-14 with further second hand acquisitions of E400MMC’s in due course.

It’s interesting that 5-7 and 15-18 have been built 10 years apart yet to the average punter they look the exact same - on the outside atleast!

It’s a shame they couldn’t have gone for something with different bodywork so atleast it would stand out that they are new buses - indeed the lack of new livery also doesn’t help!

I’m guessing these new ones will go onto the 5 (now with PVR of 4) and push the older versions onto the 6 or something? They do seem to be gradually removing branding from the Tempo’s so the 9/10 could see a return to deckers.

Any news on what the new stock is replacing? 60-65 must be high up the list to go! There’s a few elderly E200’s also.

 

[Volvodart]

£13.8 million investment brings 24 more electric buses to Norfolk​

£13.8 million investment brings 24 more electric buses to Norfolk - Travel Norfolk

Norfolk County Council and First Bus have joined forces to bring an additional 24 brand new electric double-decker buses to...

www.travelnorfolk.co.uk

Norfolk County Council and First Bus have joined forces to bring an additional 24 brand new electric double-decker buses to Norfolk as well as supporting infrastructure at two key bus depots.
Adding to the current fleet of 76 buses already operating this is another major step forward in the county’s journey toward greener public transport.
The £13.8 million investment—£8.9 million of which is funded by First Bus and the remainder supported by Norfolk’s Bus Service Improvement Plan grant—will see the new buses operating in Great Yarmouth and Norwich by Autumn 2026.
Councillor Graham Plant, cabinet member for highways, infrastructure and transport, said; “This is a landmark moment for public transport in Norfolk. We’ve been working closely with operators to support their electrification plans, and I’m delighted that our partnership with First Bus has secured this significant investment for Norfolk. We know from feedback that passengers in Norwich are already enjoying the benefits that come with travelling on an electric vehicle – and now even more people will get to enjoy the enhanced passenger experience with these new buses operating in Great Yarmouth and on routes out to Mulbarton and Horsford. ”
The Caister Road depot in Great Yarmouth will be upgraded to support 10 electric buses serving service 8, connecting James Paget Hospital to Caister via the town centre.
Meanwhile, the Vulcan Road depot in Norwich will accommodate 14 electric buses for routes 28, 36, 37, and 38, linking communities in Thorpe Marriott, Horsford, Mulbarton, and Ives Road with Norwich city centre.
Piers Marlow, Managing Director of First Bus East of England, said: “We’re really pleased that more people across Norfolk will soon be able to enjoy the many benefits of electric buses, and we’re proud to be working with Norfolk County Council to make this possible. This investment in new vehicles and depot infrastructure is another important step towards a cleaner, healthier future for everyone who lives, works and travels in Norfolk.” Construction at the Great Yarmouth depot is scheduled to begin later this year, with all vehicles expected to be in service by Autumn 2026.

 

[MotCO]

£13.8 million investment brings 24 more electric buses to Norfolk​

£13.8 million investment brings 24 more electric buses to Norfolk - Travel Norfolk

Norfolk County Council and First Bus have joined forces to bring an additional 24 brand new electric double-decker buses to...

www.travelnorfolk.co.uk

Probably a bit early to say, but has this provided any work for the reprieved Scottish factories of Alexander Dennis?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Probably a bit early to say, but has this provided any work for the reprieved Scottish factories of Alexander Dennis?

Are they ADL?

The EV fleet in Norwich is Wright Kites and Electroliners.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Probably a bit early to say, but has this provided any work for the reprieved Scottish factories of Alexander Dennis?

I would be surprised if this wasn't going to be more Wright vehicles - First have been fairly keen on standardising fleets of late.

 

[stuart81]

I’m sure the intention is that Eastern Counties will become an entirely Wright fleet hence the StreetLite / E300 swaps at Ipswich and StreetLites at Lowestoft to presumably replace E200’s

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I’m sure the intention is that Eastern Counties will become an entirely Wright fleet hence the StreetLite / E300 swaps at Ipswich and StreetLites at Lowestoft to presumably replace E200’s

They are also moving Streetdecks into the Coastlink fleet with e400s heading to Essex.