RMT industrial action 5th - 12 September 2025

[Tetchytyke]

The RMT may have misread the mood music.

I think so too.

The Labour government is really struggling at the minute, and there's a Labour Mayor. I get the distinct impression that the RMT thought that TfL would roll over to try and avoid such a strike, but TfL haven't.

Even people within ASLEF can't quite understand what the RMT are up to (I think this was also linked elsewhere in this thread):

www.aslefdistrict8.org/post/underground-pay-and-4-day-week-what-s-happening

Bizarrely, preventing drivers from volunteering to move to a 4-day week with no loss of pay is a central demand of the current RMT dispute. It must be the first time in history that a trade union has called for a strike to prevent its members from having a shorter working week and more days off!

 

[Thirteen]

I think to an extent that TfL have called the RMT's bluff. The RMT, with considerable justification, probably expected TfL to cave in rather than let such an extensive strike to go ahead. But TfL didn't cave in, and nor did the mayor. The RMT may have misread the mood music.

Remember that the RMT has lost disputes on the Underground, the most notable one of recent times being against ticket office closures, when they had massive public support and the Underground was even more essential for London than it is now.

Unfortunately (or not, depending on your viewpoint) this current and any further action is going to be ammunition to those in government who want to see the provisions of forthcoming the Employment Rights Act watered down, particularly the roll-back of the Tories' anti-strike legislation.

Can't imagine the Employment Rights Bill will change that much if at all, it's already quite far into the process in the Lords.

Speaking of ticket offices, the RMT have threatened action due to a plan they've uncovered about ticket office closures on the Elizabeth Line, a plan which TfL have denied although I admit, I didn't think there were that many ticket offices on the EL aside from ones shared with other operators.

 

[Goldfish62]

Can't imagine the Employment Rights Bill will change that much if at all, it's already quite far into the process in the Lords.

It's the enabling legislation which is the key. That hasn't been drafted yet. There has already been much speculation since Angela Rayner resigned that the whole thing could be watered down. It's not even due to be enacted until 2027.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Speaking of ticket offices, the RMT have threatened action due to a plan they've uncovered about ticket office closures on the Elizabeth Line, a plan which TfL have denied although I admit, I didn't think there were that many ticket offices on the EL aside from ones shared with other operators.

I cant actually remember seeing any office on the EL. Several machines but no EL ticket window. Where are they?

 

[thomalex]

I think to an extent that TfL have called the RMT's bluff. The RMT, with considerable justification, probably expected TfL to cave in rather than let such an extensive strike to go ahead. But TfL didn't cave in, and nor did the mayor. The RMT may have misread the mood music.

The RMT should have realised the close timing of upcoming elections played a big part in how money was found at the last minute last time. This time around you don't have that and you also have a government in a tight spot financially which has also demonstrated having little interest in subsidising London.

All commentary I've heard around these strikes both in media and personally has also been negative towards drivers.

All round a bit of a f**k up really

 

[35B]

Speaking of ticket offices, the RMT have threatened action due to a plan they've uncovered about ticket office closures on the Elizabeth Line, a plan which TfL have denied although I admit, I didn't think there were that many ticket offices on the EL aside from ones shared with other operators.

I think the key point about the RMT statement is that they claim the document they've found is a plan - a status that TfL reject. Both are firmly in "they would say that wouldn't they" territory.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All commentary I've heard around these strikes both in media and personally has also been negative towards drivers.

I've certainly found it to be highlighting unreasonable demands in the media, e.g. a demand to be included in the GBR Priv scheme, which is to me no more reasonable than Stagecoach bus drivers wanting to be included in it - the Tube isn't the big railway and there's no possible sensible grounds for including it in that. Nor indeed is there any mechanism for TfL to arrange for them to be included in it!

If it is indeed correct that the RMT have been asking for that (and it certainly seems to be widely discussed that they were) then they aren't helping themselves by making such utterly unreasonable requests.

 

[bramling]

I've certainly found it to be highlighting unreasonable demands in the media, e.g. a demand to be included in the GBR Priv scheme,

The reason this has arisen is because TFL has stated there’s limited money available for pay increases. Therefore the RMT are looking at other things which could be incorporated instead, which would offer some benefit to staff without costing TFL anything. This is why the PRIV issue has suddenly become salient.

which is to me no more reasonable than Stagecoach bus drivers wanting to be included in it - the Tube isn't the big railway and there's no possible sensible grounds for including it in that. Nor indeed is there any mechanism for TfL to arrange for them to be included in it!

There is a mechanism, which is for TFL to negotiate a reciprocal arrangement, as indeed some heritage railways have done. LU staff have been part of the PRIV scheme before, and indeed pre-96 staff (including dependents and retired staff) still are. It’s a bit hard to argue that LU can’t have it when Helston Railway does!

If it is indeed correct that the RMT have been asking for that (and it certainly seems to be widely discussed that they were) then they aren't helping themselves by making such utterly unreasonable requests.

As I say, the reason it’s come up now is because TFL have said they can’t afford a significant pay increase. Also worth remembering that there has been high inflation for several years now, so staff are essentially worse off in real terms. One could argue it’s actually pretty reasonable for RMT to be prepared to accept other benefits (which many members probably won’t actually use much) in lieu of a bigger increase to basic pay.

Also worth remembering that whole system of pay bands within LU is dysfunctional, and has been for many years. How much money has LU saved by failing to provide staff with the opportunity to progress their pay higher up their band?

 

[Watershed]

I cant actually remember seeing any office on the EL. Several machines but no EL ticket window. Where are they?

The 'core' stations weren't built with ticket offices, but the GWML/GEML stations that had ticket offices when transferred to XR, kept them and were even included where stations were rebuilt. So for example Stratford, Ealing Broadway, Ilford etc.

 

[jumble]

The LFB made all stations remove their book swaps because of health and safety concerns, yet open section stations can be left unmanned ALL DAY. The LFB should step in and demand all stations are manned at all times.

They did but now some are back ( unless this has changed again)

Book swap to return to 15 surface-level London Tube stations

The scheme was suspended in March following fire safety concerns raised by the London Fire Brigade.

www.bbc.co.uk

I would love to understand the LFB logic here
Lewisham station's book exchange was closed after the station was re-classed as a below-surface station by the LFB, despite the books being on the street level.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Sep 2025 ==

Tube staff to strike over pay and work conditions

RMT will launch rolling strike action over pay, conditions and broken agreements on London Underground

Tube union RMT, today announced rolling strike action across the network beginning on Friday 5th September for seven days, with different grades taking industrial action at differing times.

www.rmt.org.uk

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn728er5p1mo

Rolling 24hr strike action across many grades:
18.00 5 September to 17:59 6 September: Ruislip depot operational managers
midnight 7 September: track access controllers, LU control centre staff, power/control teams and Emergency Response Unit
midnight 8 September: engineers, station staff and train operators
midnight 9 September: signallers, LU service control and Emergency Response Unit
midnight 10 September: engineers, station staff and train operators
midnight 11 September: signallers, service control

Small datapoint Tuesday 9 September
Had to go to Earls Ct from North Harrow
Took H10 to Harrow and Wealdstone and Southern Direct to West Brompton
Out at 1430 and back at 1948
Neither train particularly busy
H9 Back rammed single decker every 15mins
Tip for anyone else needing H9
Walk to previous bus stop which is only a few minutes and your trip will be a lot better

 

[DavyCrocket]

If the PRIV does come in for LU staff. It must only apply to those staff in LU and not those that come in and cover other jobs.

 

[ricoblade]

The advent of the Elizabeth Line, frequent Overground services, and dockless bike hire schemes means that people have a lot more ways to get around the city.

The strikes are inconvenient, but don't make it as difficult for people to get to where they need to vs historically.

Agree with this - long and very frequent Thameslink and Elizabeth Line trains have made my travel do-able, plus a bus that filled up to capacity but ran fine to get me to a Thameslink station this morning.

 

[Mawkie]

Nor indeed is there any mechanism for TfL to arrange for them to be included in it!

Plainly there is a mechanism, they've been meeting with the Rail Delivery Group for 2 years but haven't come to agreement yet. If I recall correctly, Network Rail gained Privs for their employees by simply paying £250(?) a year per employee - and they don't have any reciprocal travel to offer. I wonder if TfL overestimated the value of their "reciprocal travel" offering, and RDG simply didn't agree with the value?

If it is indeed correct that the RMT have been asking for that (and it certainly seems to be widely discussed that they were) then they aren't helping themselves by making such utterly unreasonable requests.

The Telegraph was running a story that RMT was striking for Legoland tickets! This was based on the long standing 2-for-1 days out offer that anyone that arrives with a train tickets gets. This was then picked up by the Mail and Express.

Of course their motives are fairly transparent - by trying to deceive the public into thinking the RMT demands are for frivolous items, rather than better pay and a reduced working week, they hope the public support will diminish and at the same it also attempts to send a signal to other workers that unions are irrelevant and puerile.

 

[bluegoblin7]

If the PRIV does come in for LU staff. It must only apply to those staff in LU and not those that come in and cover other jobs.

The 2023 pay deal was clear that the Priv negotiations were pan-TfL, and it would not be right to renege on that.

As much as some staff may be engaging in strike-breaking there are hundreds, if not thousands, more who aren’t. Likewise there’s plenty of LUL staff who themselves have crossed picket lines (not including TSSA and Aslef staff here who do not currently have a strike mandate) - so by your same logic these staff should not get Priv.

—

It is concerning how many people on a railway forum, where you’d expect a bit more knowledge and certainly the ability to look up the facts, are still trotting out media rhetoric or ignoring the intricacies of the dispute.

 

[43066]

I think so too.

The Labour government is really struggling at the minute, and there's a Labour Mayor. I get the distinct impression that the RMT thought that TfL would roll over to try and avoid such a strike, but TfL haven't.

Even people within ASLEF can't quite understand what the RMT are up to (I think this was also linked elsewhere in this thread):

www.aslefdistrict8.org/post/underground-pay-and-4-day-week-what-s-happening

I hadn’t appreciated RMT were actually trying to prevent the 4 day week for drivers. That does seem a tad bonkers. I had thought (perhaps wrongly) that they were on board with the choice being offered to go to four days or remain at five.

 

[35B]

I hadn’t appreciated RMT were actually trying to prevent the 4 day week for drivers. That does seem a tad bonkers. I had thought (perhaps wrongly) that they were on board with the choice being offered to go to four days or remain at five.

I think there's a really interesting question about the effective boundaries of safe working for staff doing tasks demanding sustained concentration but which are not in themselves demanding, and whether it's the total hours worked or the duration of each shift that matters more. Without comment on (or indeed detailed knowledge of) the differing views of RMT and ASLEF, this is somewhere that views may well legitimately differ.

I'm not sure, especially given the distorting lenses that propaganda for and against the action and claim apply, that this complexity is emerging well, if at all. That they're tied to demands for what an ordinary employee would regard as very short weeks at a high rate of pay does not help this understanding.

 

[43066]

I think there's a really interesting question about the effective boundaries of safe working for staff doing tasks demanding sustained concentration but which are not in themselves demanding, and whether it's the total hours worked or the duration of each shift that matters more.

Agreed. It’s notable that on the mainline the move from five to four weeks has been widely adopted and is seen by ASLEF as the gold standard. Yes the shifts are longer, but not *that* much longer, and balanced out by having an entire extra day off per week to recover from the ravages of shift work. Signallers have gone even further down the same road and can now work three twelve hour shifts in many locations. LU seems a little behind the times in that regard - albeit also true that their work is the most intensive.

Speaking as someone who has done shift work of this type for a long time now, it’s also true that the content of shifts, in terms of breaks, diagramming parameters etc. are more important than length in terms of fatigue. For me the four day week has always been a no brainer - even when I was doing intense (albeit not LU-intense) DOO metro work.

I'm not sure, especially given the distorting lenses that propaganda for and against the action and claim apply, that this complexity is emerging well, if at all. That they're tied to demands for what an ordinary employee would regard as very short weeks at a high rate of pay does not help this understanding.

Certainly true that a lot of the complexity and nuance is lost on the general public - not helped by a media who tend to be anti union by default. The reality is the minutiae of shift work, diagramming etc. are only really understood by those who have done it, and few others will be interested enough in what is a very dry subject to read deeply into it!

 

[Russel]

I have to say, this dispute is far more complicated than it seems, on the face of it.

I've certainly found it to be highlighting unreasonable demands in the media, e.g. a demand to be included in the GBR Priv scheme, which is to me no more reasonable than Stagecoach bus drivers wanting to be included in it - the Tube isn't the big railway and there's no possible sensible grounds for including it in that.

On this point, I was talking to one of the booking office clerks at the IOW Hovertravel office in Portsmouth a few months ago who told me they are included in the rail staff travel scheme, presumably he was talking about PRIV, so if that is correct and I haven't misunderstood what he was telling me, then I can see why Underground workers want it too.

 

[Mawkie]

I hadn’t appreciated RMT were actually trying to prevent the 4 day week for drivers. That does seem a tad bonkers. I had thought (perhaps wrongly) that they were on board with the choice being offered to go to four days or remain at five.

They aren't, that's why. RMT have campaigned for a 4 day week for a decade at least. However there are variations of 4 day weeks. RMT and ASLEF both held referendums on the current proposal from TfL, and the combined result from both union members was that 58% of respondents were not in favour of the 4 day week offered. RMT believe they can get a better version of the 4 day week.

then I can see why Underground workers want it too.

Not only do Underground workers want the Priv, they accepted the Priv offer as part of the 2023 pay deal in good faith. They suspended action based on the whole offer; pay, Priv, and some other things. So to have TfL renege on the deal is frankly galling.

Edit: spelling

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not only do Underground workers want the Priv, they accepted the Priv offer as part of the 2023 pay deal on good faith. They suspended action based on the whole offer; pay, Priv, and some other things. So to have TfL renage on the deal is frankly galling.

If the situation is that TfL offered it then withdrew the offer without agreed alternative compensation and good reason then I'd agree that's very poor. Perhaps the RMT need to put more publicity out to make that clear?

 

[Mawkie]

If the situation is that TfL offered it then withdrew the offer without agreed alternative compensation and good reason then I'd agree that's very poor. Perhaps the RMT need to put more publicity out to make that clear?

The problem for TfL is that they offered something that wasn't within their gift to give. But that sounds like a 'they problem' rather than a 'me problem'.

 

[Jamiescott1]

There seems to be a lot more services running today with some sort of service at the extremities of most lines

 

[weeklycommuter]

The article you quoted above makes clear what the exceptional circumstances were.

The Mayor of London was clearly not going to say to the press that he found more money in January 2024 because he wanted to avoid a strike three months before the vote in which he was standing for re-election. Some other reasons had to be given.

 

[bramling]

There seems to be a lot more services running today with some sort of service at the extremities of most lines

This will be because ASLEF are not on strike. So there’s drivers on duty, especially at those depots which are more dominated by ASLEF. However station staff are on strike today, hence why most tunnel stations are closed. It’s likely many of the open-section stations trains are running through are unmanned, which isn’t an option for tunnel stations.

 

[43066]

They aren't, that's why. RMT have campaigned for a 4 day week for a decade at least. However there are variations of 4 day weeks. RMT and ASLEF both held referendums on the current proposal from TfL, and the combined result from both union members was that 58% of respondents were not in favour of the 4 day week offered. RMT believe they can get a better version of the 4 day week.

Understood, thanks. Presumably the other minutiae around diagramming parameters etc. is what’s missing from the big picture public discourse. This really isn’t an area where it should be impossible to arrive at an acceptable compromise for both sides - it was done on the mainline years ago.

Not only do Underground workers want the Priv, they accepted the Priv offer as part of the 2023 pay deal in good faith. They suspended action based on the whole offer; pay, Priv, and some other things. So to have TfL renege on the deal is frankly galling.

This seems reasonable - why on earth did TfL offer something if they’re now unable or unwilling to give it?

The Mayor of London was clearly not going to say to the press that he found more money in January 2024 because he wanted to avoid a strike three months before the vote in which he was standing for re-election. Some other reasons had to be given.

The mayor of London also doesn’t want strikes crippling the city, especially when then issues at stake don’t sound insurmountable, or even particularly expensive.

You seem not to believe the reasons he gave for intervening last time, but also willing to believe his statement that he won’t intervene this time (which was rather more measured than the Standard reporting suggested, quelle surprise). Khan does not stand to benefit in any way from these strikes so, as I say, I would be staggered if pressure wasn’t being brought to bear on TfL.

 

[Silent]

Agree with this - long and very frequent Thameslink and Elizabeth Line trains have made my travel do-able, plus a bus that filled up to capacity but ran fine to get me to a Thameslink station this morning.

I’m actually avoiding Lizz line seeing how busy it seems to be in social media. I think it’s a lottery of where you live. For example, a colleague from south London doesn’t seem to be that affected by the strike at work because south London doesn’t depend on the tube. My area does but has some alternatives such as the Chiltern railways and Lioness line. I’ve taken both but think I will avoid Chiltern railways at mornings as everyone is using that and rather get the lioness line to Harrow where I have both the option of southern and London northwestern. Today I noticed my southern train wasn’t overcrowded I think because the casual commuter isn’t too aware of the service as Mildmay line was really crowded. Also at Harrow & Wealdstone getting a commuter train actually seems sensible because outer London boundaries doesn’t rely too much on the tube so the train isn’t likely to be overcrowded because of tube strikes I think. And in central London I avoid the buses although it does seem people are working out how to better navigate the centre as it didn’t seem as overcrowded today.

I think people in areas that fall in zone 3 and 2 maybe and don’t have many national rail services or have popular overground lines are probably the ones affected most by the strikes. If I were them I may travel in the opposite direction to get a train where it’s less empty or an express service to London.

 

[greyman42]

The Mayor of London was clearly not going to say to the press that he found more money in January 2024 because he wanted to avoid a strike three months before the vote in which he was standing for re-election. Some other reasons had to be given.

He would be a liar then.

 

[Buzby]

If the PRIV does come in for LU staff. It must only apply to those staff in LU and not those that come in and cover other jobs.

But surely in the spirit of reciprocity, Rail PRIV holders should get similar access to LU?

 

[43066]

But surely in the spirit of reciprocity, Rail PRIV holders should get similar access to LU?

Some do!

 

[Richardr]

The problem for TfL is that they offered something that wasn't within their gift to give. But that sounds like a 'they problem' rather than a 'me problem'.

Presumably it is in their "gift", they just have to pay the rail companies for it.