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Cheers @50002Superb - if anyone knows how 99001 got from Whitemoor to Peterborough yesterday I would definitely like to know please, as I'm trying to keep a record of all their movements.
Wow! They’ve got the approval to not use Q headcodes for 99 drags very quickly in that case! (I realise the 99s under their own power still need Q headcodes)
if anyone knows how 99001 got from Whitemoor to Peterborough yesterday I would definitely like to know please, as I'm trying to keep a record of all their movements.
History was made for the 99's on Thursday 21st August 2025. 0Q99 Leicester - Peterborough was 99001+47739. The 99 was leading and powered on either diesel or HVO with the 47 trailing, so this was the first movement of a 99 under diesel or HVO power on the mainline.
Nice to know they're out and about on diesel power on the main line. I saw one of the late night electric test runs with 99001 (4Q90 25th July) from the bridge overlooking Doncaster Down Decoy. It arrived on electric power in the former mail platform at Doncaster RMT, pantograph went down, then did the run round on diesel (or HVO...) power. The most noticeable thing was how loud the fans were on the roof (which must have sounded louder due to standing above the loco on a bridge). With a light on inside the part of the loco visible through the bodyside grill, it reminded me of a gaming PC with the cooling fans on full power! It was hard to hear the engine over the fan noise, but the guy next to me on the bridge thought it sounded decent.
Wow! They’ve got the approval to not use Q headcodes for 99 drags very quickly in that case! (I realise the 99s under their own power still need Q headcodes)
The 99s are a pretty standard gauging profile so if being dragged is there any reason they'd need to be on 'must run on booked lines unless specially authorised' headcodes? If they were out of gauge, they should be on an X headcode...
That sounds promising. I've not seen any footage of the loco powering on diesel yet. I'm hoping someone's caught yesterday's test run departing Peterborough.
Cheers @Rail Quest@ac6000cw and @Adrian Barr for your replies. 4Q96 arrived back at Peterborough just under 2 hours early, so let's hope that's a sign the 1st night of testing went well.
The 99s are a pretty standard gauging profile so if being dragged is there any reason they'd need to be on 'must run on booked lines unless specially authorised' headcodes? If they were out of gauge, they should be on an X headcode...
Real-time train running information for 4Q90 2117 departure from Peterborough North Yd Gbrf to Ipswich S.S. on 26/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Real-time train running information for 4Q90 2117 departure from Peterborough North Yd Gbrf to Ipswich S.S. on 26/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Real-time train running information for 4Q90 2117 departure from Peterborough North Yd Gbrf to Ipswich S.S. on 27/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Real-time train running information for 4Q91 2348 departure from Ipswich S.S. to Temple Mills Loop on 27/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Real-time train running information for 4Q92 0309 departure from Temple Mills Loop to Ipswich S.S. on 28/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Real-time train running information for 4Q96 0525 departure from Ipswich S.S. to Peterborough North Yd Gbrf on 28/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
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This may be a Thursday night test run to Doncaster, "Pathed as Diesel locomotive, trailing load 1200 tonnes":
Real-time train running information for 4Q92 2158 departure from Peterborough North Yd Gbrf to Doncaster Down Decoy Gbrf on 28/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Just wondering, missed seeing the 99 at the Greatest Gathering (I blame the Eurostar - as it was my prime "want to see", and ended up missing that whole area!). Seen the video clips of night running, is there anywhere you can see the 99s at the moment during the day/weekend? Thanks
Both at Peterborough during the day today and tomorrow and then off to Doncaster Thursday night. There are no onward paths at the moment from there on the system yet.
Real-time train running information for 4Q92 2158 departure from Peterborough North Yd Gbrf to Doncaster Down Decoy Gbrf on 28/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Real-time train running information for 4Q93 0013 departure from Doncaster Down Decoy Gbrf to Peterborough North Yd Gbrf on 29/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
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This is a move for both 99s to Leicester LIP (running about 11 minutes late at the moment):
Real-time train running information for 0Q99 1801 departure from Peterborough North Yd Gbrf to Leicester L.I.P. on 29/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
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Re. timescales for deliveries/testing/entry into service/economics of 99s versus 66s, a couple of quotes from an article by Tony Miles in the September Modern Railways (Mr. Smith = John Smith, GBRf CEO, speaking at the 17th July cl. 99 launch event at Peterborough):
Testing and training for the '99s' is expected to continue for some time, with No 99003 due to arrive in the UK during October (Modern Railways, August 2025) after which deliveries will be ramped up to around two per month.
Mr Smith said entry into service will need at least six locomotives to be available; four working trains and two as cover, noting that once a timing has been adjusted to reflect the improved performance over a Class 66 it would not be possible to substitute a '66'for a '99' without impacting performance.
Their bi-mode capabilities will come at a price as at over £5 million each, the cost of acquiring and using the locomotives is significant - roughly three times the cost of a Class 66 per month. Since the Class 99 was unveiled, Freightliner has indicated that it is looking at the locomotives but according to CEO Tim Shoveller, the tight margins in freight make it very difficult to make a business case for their acquisition
I'm not surprised that 99s are more expensive than 66s, and they have features that make up for that to some extend, including the higher power, but triple the cost is a very big delta!
Whilst the 99’s are going to obviously be an expensive initial outlay, surely they offer much more than a new locomotive over a 66? The fact they can accelerate heavy trains of 2000+ ton (up) to 75mph, and maintain that would mean new faster paths for freight. I’d like to think more companies would find that attractive and use rail as a preferred option. They must surely be more efficient and hopefully much more reliable (although a 66 is still pretty damned good in that respect considering their age and useage).
Can we deduce Mr Shoveller may be looking at the 93 as a cheaper option? Does anyone know the cost of a 93 over a 99 (no ice cream wisecracks thanks………)?
Whilst the 99’s are going to obviously be an expensive initial outlay, surely they offer much more than a new locomotive over a 66? The fact they can accelerate heavy trains of 2000+ ton (up) to 75mph, and maintain that would mean new faster paths for freight.
I’d like to think more companies would find that attractive and use rail as a preferred option. They must surely be more efficient and hopefully much more reliable (although a 66 is still pretty damned good in that respect considering their age and useage).
Can we deduce Mr Shoveller may be looking at the 93 as a cheaper option? Does anyone know the cost of a 93 over a 99 (no ice cream wisecracks thanks………)?
The 93 isn't operated by GBRf, hence the only options for performance assessment of modern multi-mode locomotive with potential cooperative operator is with ROG, it is that simple...
On electric, a backwards step in performance on diesel.
The 93 isn't operated by GBRf, hence the only options for performance assessment of modern multi-mode locomotive with potential cooperative operator is with ROG, it is that simple...
You’d only use the diesel on “last mile” or shunting operations generally though. An example would be in container terminals that aren’t wired, or other yards where you’re shunting at low speed. They could be extensively used on the West Coast to great effect.
I was talking about FL’s options of using them from the articles that ac6000cw had put up, as opposed to GBRf using the 93’s.
Can we deduce Mr Shoveller may be looking at the 93 as a cheaper option? Does anyone know the cost of a 93 over a 99 (no ice cream wisecracks thanks………)?
So was I - GBRf aren't going to loan a 99 to FL are they! Hence a 93 from ROG is the only option...
A 93 will struggle with long container services on the northern WCML due to the large aerodynamic drag /rolling resistance and sustained steep gradients (not tested so far...) but Gateway - Crewe will be fine.
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Freightliner is considering trialling the use of one of Rail Operations Group’s Class 93 tri-mode locomotives on an intermodal service to assess its capabilities, Modern Railways understands, while the operator has also purchased two Class 90 locos put up for sale by DB Cargo.
ROG has ordered 10 ‘93s’ from Stadler as part of a framework agreement for up to 30 new locos. The 110mph locos have overhead electric capability, a Caterpillar C32 diesel engine and two Lithium Titanate Oxide (LTO) traction battery packs to supplement the engine and enable last-mile emission-free shunting operation. So far only one ‘93’ has been delivered to the UK; it moved from Worksop to Crewe for static testing in January, but main line testing had yet to commence, and how the locos will be used is also unclear.
While it had been rumoured Freightliner was looking to take on eight of the 10 ‘93s’, it is understood the operator wishes to explore the ability of the new locos before making a firm commitment. Key requirements would be the ability of the diesel engine/battery combination to haul an intermodal train from Felixstowe over the non-electrified branch to Ipswich, and whether the capability in electric mode would match the performance of a pair of ‘90s’ on the steep climbs on the northern stretches of the West Coast main line.
Freightliner’s only non-diesel traction at present is its Class 90 electric locos. DB Cargo has stood down its ‘90s’ as part of changes being implemented through its ‘transformation plan’ and has put the locos up for sale. Some have been out of use for some time, while others were withdrawn more recently; it is understood Freightliner has secured two of the latter examples which are in a better condition.
More recently I have heard from a source (not public) that they are planned to be trialled out of Gateway and that Felixstowe is going to be difficult for the 93s.
I suspect all container trains hauled by 99s out of Felixstowe will have to run via London. Don’t know for sure, but it seems a bit much to use a Class 37 equivalent on 775m intermodals.
More recently I have heard from a source (not public) that they are planned to be trialled out of Gateway and that Felixstowe is going to be difficult for the 93s.
I suspect all container trains hauled by 99s out of Felixstowe will have to run via London. Don’t know for sure, but it seems a bit much to use a Class 37 equivalent on 775m intermodals.
I doubt it's a backward step with 3 phase AC drives compared to DC drive. May be down on output power on diesel but won't make a massive difference in the real world. Seem to remember when the 58s came out there was a comment that freight locos spend only around 3% of their time at full power.
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I doubt it's a backward step with 3 phase AC drives compared to DC drive. May be down on output power on diesel but won't make a massive difference in the real world.
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