Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[DMckduck]

What 450 booked work? Diversionary route retention for Basingstoke will be kept up by running an empty 450. These runs actually are already in use as either 5Sxx or 5Cxx from Waterloo to Woking via Richmond or Hounslow. There is no need for 450s to work the Windsor lines once all 701s are in service.

Will Windsor side depots sign off the 450s then?

 

[The_Train]

The move was from Eastleigh.

Thank you

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Will Windsor side depots sign off the 450s then?

In my time, so not sure how much, if anything has changed, the majority of crews who worked Windsor side services were based at depots which had a far wider variety of work (main line wise) and so will retain Desiro knowledge going forward I would guess. If my faded memory is correct, may be only one depot that currently have Desiro knowledge might stand to lose same in laymans terms. But that must not be taken as a given, as there are very good reasons for the depot I am thinking of to retain such knowledge (which I completely agree with) for the sake of of diversionary activity, be it planned or adhoc in relation to disruption.
These matters are far from black and white. Far too many times (in my time) there were occasional initiatives to save £££ by this or that means, ie cutting back on route or traction knowledge at this or that depot, which then put service recovery in jeopardy.
I am sure those directly involved (in relation to 701 and the consequences of) will be on the case!

 

[DMckduck]

In my time, so not sure how much, if anything has changed, the majority of crews who worked Windsor side services were based at depots which had a far wider variety of work (main line wise) and so will retain Desiro knowledge going forward I would guess. If my faded memory is correct, may be only one depot that currently have Desiro knowledge might stand to lose same in laymans terms. But that must not be taken as a given, as there are very good reasons for the depot I am thinking of to retain such knowledge (which I completely agree with) for the sake of of diversionary activity, be it planned or adhoc in relation to disruption.
These matters are far from black and white. Far too many times (in my time) there were occasional initiatives to save £££ by this or that means, ie cutting back on route or traction knowledge at this or that depot, which then put service recovery in jeopardy.
I am sure those directly involved (in relation to 701 and the consequences of) will be on the case!

Its good in practice making all suburban 701, but like you say in service recovery if there isnt the crew available who sign alternative stock then the ability to make an ad hoc replacement becomes much more difficult.

If I was a betting man, even when the 701s are fully in, I suspect we haven't seen the end of the Desiros on the Windsor side.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

If I was a betting man, even when the 701s are fully in, I suspect we haven't seen the end of the Desiros on the Windsor side.

There will always be occasions when stock that is non standard to a given route, will be used on same, be it engineering work or other. I go back to something I mentioned some while ago about passenger expectations - and it's the same in this context - what would a fare paying passenger prefer - a train formed of whatever that got them home/to work, or a train that was cancelled because the correct type of stock was not available - it's a no brainer to me, and I hope likewise to the vast majority!

 

[swr444]

Metro guards can easily be given a Fast service to Guildford / Woking to retain Desiro knowledge. Waterloo metro currently work the 1130 PMH service to Guildford and work a ex Alton service in the evening from Woking up to Waterloo.

 

[nctd2306]

If I was a betting man, even when the 701s are fully in, I suspect we haven't seen the end of the Desiros on the Windsor side.

Well given that mainline Chertsey diverts will continue to exist after the 701 introduction, I'd suggest you are right!

 

[WarrenTManager]

Besides, 701508 went to Derby today, seems for modifications 5Q50

701508 has been used for ABDO test runs. Unsure if that is related though.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Windsor side depots will not lose Desiro traction competency, not only is it core traction but all those depots have Waterloo to Woking as core route and will still have jobs that require Desiro competency, even if Windsor side does manage to be entirely 701 worked.

 

[mansonlo49]

701508 has been used for ABDO test runs. Unsure if that is related though.

When is the ABDO test runs? Is it operated by SWR? Or GBRF

 

[Goldfish62]

If I was a betting man, even when the 701s are fully in, I suspect we haven't seen the end of the Desiros on the Windsor side.

Unless things have changed they'll still be on Ascot - Aldershot services.

 

[WarrenTManager]

When is the ABDO test runs? Is it operated by SWR? Or GBRF

There were about 4 or 5 done overnight over the last couple of months.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Unless things have changed they'll still be on Ascot - Aldershot services.

Tend to agree. Said route (AFAIR) did not come under the original SWT aspirations to see 450's removed from the core suburban area, and the number of cars (701) as precured by SWR only just exceeds the needs of the pre covid suburban TT, the extra number of cars/units being in order to replace what was (at that time) the 3 x 8 car 450 diagrams that remained on the Reading road.

 

[staines west]

Unless things have changed they'll still be on Ascot - Aldershot services.

I might be wrong but i thought ascot to aldershot being on the 701 service map meant itll be all or mostly 701. Especially because the mainline route down to alton is there as well. Or maybe that’s because they plan on putting 701s on the peak waterloo-aldershot via ascot trains but the rest remains 450 dominate? Still doesn’t explain alton being there though i never really considered it a suburban route and it would feel weird seeing 701s go through woking except for the Sunday Guildford stoppers. The same as it is with 455s now. Those guildford trains are the only 455s to go beyond woking. And as others have said i doubt they’ll even be enough 701s to take desiros off the alton line if they wanted to

 

[swr444]

I might be wrong but i thought ascot to aldershot being on the 701 service map meant itll be all or mostly 701. Especially because the mainline route down to alton is there as well. Or maybe that’s because they plan on putting 701s on the peak waterloo-aldershot via ascot trains but the rest remains 450 dominate? Still doesn’t explain alton being there though i never really considered it a suburban route and it would feel weird seeing 701s go through woking except for the Sunday Guildford stoppers. The same as it is with 455s now. Those guildford trains are the only 455s to go beyond woking. And as others have said i doubt they’ll even be enough 701s to take desiros off the alton line if they wanted to

the updated map on the website only shows as far as Farnham.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/travelling-with-us/our-trains/arterio

 

[staines west]

the updated map on the website only shows as far as Farnham.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/travelling-with-us/our-trains/arterioView attachment 186899

Oh my bad thanks for the correction! Presumably then the Guildford-farnham shuttle will be 701 which i think was a given anyway. Still will be interesting to see what happens with ascot-aldershot later down the line. Not that i imagine that line is a high priority for the introduction anyway so its still a way off.

 

[swr444]

Oh my bad thanks for the correction! Presumably then the Guildford-farnham shuttle will be 701 which i think was a given anyway. Still will be interesting to see what happens with ascot-aldershot later down the line. Not that i imagine that line is a high priority for the introduction anyway so its still a way off.

I think the flexibility is there for 701s to operate both shuttles if needed, but from what multiple sources on here have said it will still be a 4 car 450 working those services.

 

[bb21]

053 should be entering service soon, which will make it the 20th unit now in passenger service, excluding 028.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There's a Derby to Wimbledon move in for next week; would this likely be one of 701 001 or 701 003 being delivered?

 

[TEW]

I think the flexibility is there for 701s to operate both shuttles if needed, but from what multiple sources on here have said it will still be a 4 car 450 working those services.

701s cannot operate Guildford to Farnham services at present. Well, they could, but not calling at Ash and Wanborough, as the PTI testing has not included either station.

 

[mansonlo49]

the updated map on the website only shows as far as Farnham.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/travelling-with-us/our-trains/arterioView attachment 186899

seen this map already and it’s quite a while already, so wonder would the 701 still serve some of the stations

 

[Goldfish62]

Oh my bad thanks for the correction! Presumably then the Guildford-farnham shuttle will be 701 which i think was a given anyway. Still will be interesting to see what happens with ascot-aldershot later down the line. Not that i imagine that line is a high priority for the introduction anyway so its still a way off.

Surely Farnham is only on there for the Farnham - Waterloo via Ascot peak services.

 

[Snow1964]

701s cannot operate Guildford to Farnham services at present. Well, they could, but not calling at Ash and Wanborough, as the PTI testing has not included either station.

Yes, don't seem to have finished route testing at all stations.

My memory is hazy now, but originally I think they were to be certified through to Haslemere, Alton, Basingstoke all stations. Not to be scheduled to any of these, but in case of unexpected emergency disruption in Waterloo area that caused a blockage, and a unplanned substitution was required because 450s were stranded or blocked.

I suspect some cost cutting clerk has calculated won't ever be emergency substitution in next 40 years.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Surely Farnham is only on there for the Farnham - Waterloo via Ascot peak services

I would agree, but I am thinking of the pre covid TT and things may change of course?

Presumably then the Guildford-farnham shuttle will be 701 which i think was a given anyway

Not so, 'a given' that is. When the 701s were precured pre covid, the Guildford-Ascot service (as it was then) did not figure at all. The 701 fleet size was designed to replace all of 455, 456, 458 & 707 diagrams, with enough to also remove the last 3 x 8 car 450 from the Reading line. Please see my post 14383 above. As per my response here to Goldfish62, since covid things have changed (eg; the Guildford-Ascot service now runs as two separate entities, the 458's have been put through another rebuild, etc) , so there may be some things that pan out differently to the original plan?

 

[DelW]

701s cannot operate Guildford to Farnham services at present. Well, they could, but not calling at Ash and Wanborough, as the PTI testing has not included either station.

Which would leave Wanborough without any service, as the GWR North Downs trains don't call there.

Surely Farnham is only on there for the Farnham - Waterloo via Ascot peak services.

I may well be reading too much into a diagrammatic map, but in that case the Ash Vale to Woking link shouldn't be shown.

But possibly Farnham will be used for stabling 701s, with odd timetabled moves to and from, similarly to the one-time evening 458 trip from Waterloo to Haslemere which then ran ECS to Farnham.

 

[Goldfish62]

I may well be reading too much into a diagrammatic map, but in that case the Ash Vale to Woking link shouldn't be shown.

I can only think that's an error. If they're meant to be on there then Alton would also be shown.

But possibly Farnham will be used for stabling 701s, with odd timetabled moves to and from, similarly to the one-time evening 458 trip from Waterloo to Haslemere which then ran ECS to Farnham.

It's long been used to stable units for Reading services (Farnham crews work these) and the 1N peak services via Ascot so I would say that's a virtual certainty.

 

[TEW]

AFAIK there are no plans to use them between Ash Vale and Woking, but they are cleared to do so if required.

 

[DelW]

It's long been used to stable units for Reading services (Farnham crews work these) and the 1N peak services via Ascot so I would say that's a virtual certainty.

I'd been wondering whether that might mean some morning or evening timetabled services running between Pirbright Junction and Ash Vale Junction, but ...

AFAIK there are no plans to use them between Ash Vale and Woking, but they are cleared to do so if required.

... apparently not, in the short term anyway.

 

[mansonlo49]

There's a Derby to Wimbledon move in for next week; would this likely be one of 701 001 or 701 003 being delivered?

001? Isn't this the sort of Testbed and equipped with a pantograph? So maybe 003 come down first

 

[WarrenTManager]

001? Isn't this the sort of Testbed and equipped with a pantograph? So maybe 003 come down first

001 I think is further into September.