Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[800001]

Can 2x5-car 810s operate with one unit in electric mode and one unit running on diesel?

No.
As they have done no testing with 2x5 cars coupled (except for a few coupling ups but trains didn't talk to each other).
10 car at the moment is for rescue only in diesel.



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Aug 2025 ==

Observed via 8XX Appreciation Group on Facebook that 810009 commenced mainline testing this week. Has done 3 nights of testing and continues into wc 4th August.

 

[Nottingham59]

As they have done no testing with 2x5 cars coupled (except for a few coupling ups but trains didn't talk to each other).

Sorry, what I meant was "Does the design of the 810 allow 2-5-car coupled units to run with one unit on AC, and one on diesel?". I can see advantages to having that flexibility, but I would be surprised if it was in the specification.

 

[py_megapixel]

Sorry, what I meant was "Does the design of the 810 allow 2-5-car coupled units to run with one unit on AC, and one on diesel?". I can see advantages to having that flexibility, but I would be surprised if it was in the specification.

IIRC the LNER can run an electric only set (801) over an unelectrified diversion by coupling it to an 802 in diesel mode (possibly with the assistance of the 801's small rescue engine). Clearly that's not quite the same thing but it does show that there is some flexibility in the designs

 

[800001]

IIRC the LNER can run an electric only set (801) over an unelectrified diversion by coupling it to an 802 in diesel mode (possibly with the assistance of the 801's small rescue engine). Clearly that's not quite the same thing but it does show that there is some flexibility in the designs

When an 800 and an 801 run coupled together as a 10 car set, the 801 is not providing any power to move the train.

The engine on the 801 is solely providing hotel power to the lights, toilets etc.

The 800 is doing all the work.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Looks like yet another issue with multi-pantograph setups again on Network Rail then...

Oh the joys!

3 x 360s must have been cleared though....

 

[800001]

3 x 360s must have been cleared though....

Yes, because the issue is not NR, it is Hitachi.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Yes, because the issue is not NR, it is Hitachi.

Thanks.

 

[Tim__]

I see on Facebook 810018 has been seen. It feels like it will be next year at least for all to be constructed

 

[800001]

I see on Facebook 810018 has been seen. It feels like it will be next year at least for all to be constructed

Seen, but not completed.
No inter car connecting cables fitted.
No cables on roof top that link carriages.
No external cctv fitted.
Most likely outside to clear space inside.

 

[david.stannard]

In the EMR Class 222 declining reliability thread (post#73 by hwl) it is mentioned that the Class 810s are constructed from 60xx grade aluminium, but in the comprehensive review of the Aurora programme last year by the EMR Fleet Director (reportef in Todays Railway issue 265) it is stated that 50xx series aluminium is used along with metal inert gas welding to avoid the stress corrosion cracking problems encountered with stir-friction welding of the 70xx series aluminium bodyshells of previous 80x series trains.
Can anyone clarify the grade of Aluminium used for the Class 810 bodyshells?

 

[PG]

In the EMR Class 222 declining reliability thread (post#73 by hwl) it is mentioned that the Class 810s are constructed from 60xx grade aluminium, but in the comprehensive review of the Aurora programme last year by the EMR Fleet Director (reportef in Todays Railway issue 265) it is stated that 50xx series aluminium is used along with metal inert gas welding to avoid the stress corrosion cracking problems encountered with stir-friction welding of the 70xx series aluminium bodyshells of previous 80x series trains.
Can anyone clarify the grade of Aluminium used for the Class 810 bodyshells?

Back on page 129 of the thread, my post #3853 linked to a Rail Engineer article on the 810's. On the subject of Structure it mentions 6000 series aluminium.

In terms of materials, the Class 810 uses 6000 series aluminium as against that used in the AT200/AT300 which used aluminium vulnerable to stress corrosion cracking.

 

[david.stannard]

Back on page 129 of the thread, my post #3853 linked to a Rail Engineer article on the 810's. On the subject of Structure it mentions 6000 series aluminium.

Thanks for that.

 

[eastwestdivide]

There’s an 0828 Merchant Park Sidings to Etches Park in the system today, presumably an 810:

Realtime Trains | 5Q30 0828 Merchant Park Sidings to Etches Park Sdgs | 08/08/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q30 0828 departure from Merchant Park Sidings to Etches Park Sdgs on 08/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[800001]

There’s an 0828 Merchant Park Sidings to Etches Park in the system today, presumably an 810:

Realtime Trains | 5Q30 0828 Merchant Park Sidings to Etches Park Sdgs | 08/08/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q30 0828 departure from Merchant Park Sidings to Etches Park Sdgs on 08/08/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Cancelled

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2025 ==

Units up to 810018 now seen at Merchant Park, excluding 002 and 017.

 

[ryan125hst]

I'm a bit behind on this and so have only just learnt of the differences with a Class 810 compared to the other AT300 trains. One thing mentioned is the presence of a transformer in the centre carriage instead of the driving vehicles.

The 9-coach Class 800 and Class 801's have a transformer in both driving vehicles as I presume they need this in order to provide the amount of power required for five motor vehicles. Do the 5-coach Class 800 and Class 801's also have a transformer at both ends of the set or do they only have one transformer per set?

I also see that despite having four engines that are uprated compared to the other AT300 bi-modes, they only have two motor vehicles compared to the usual three on a 5-coach set. Do they offer greater performance on diesel than the trains currently in service but reduced performance on electric than existing trains? Surely they can't output the same power to fewer axles even if more powerful traction motors are used?

 

[Rob F]

Surely they can't output the same power to fewer axles even if more powerful traction motors are used?

Why not? Is that not how locomotives work?

 

[The_Train]

Units up to 810018 now seen at Merchant Park, excluding 002 and 017.

All built and complete?

 

[800001]

All built and complete?

Built with seats etc.........complete no, external cables missing and lots of quality assurance stickers on them.

But these are all units that have. Even through the test facility, which means they are likely 99% complete,

 

[dorsetdesiro]

When the 810s get the "EMR Intercity" vinyls applied on then this would indicate they are very close to entering service.

So there are none that have the vinyls yet?

Considering the issues & delays mentioned, probably nowhere ready for the vinyls, then few more years to go, if the 810s do not debut by 2030 then GBR would have questions to answer.

EMR by now may be wishing to have stuck with Alstom to build the 810s, due to the 222s originally coming from Bombardier, instead of Hitachi.

 

[800001]

When the 810s get the "EMR Intercity" vinyls applied on then this would indicate they are very close to entering service.

So there are none that have the vinyls yet?

Considering the issues & delays mentioned, probably nowhere ready for the vinyls, then few more years to go, if the 810s do not debut by 2030 then GBR would have questions to answer.

EMR by now may be wishing to have stuck with Alstom to build the 810s, due to the 222s originally coming from Bombardier, instead of Hitachi.

810008 has the vinyls on.
And I'm pretty certain they will all be in by 2030!

810008 is at Derby Etches Park now, wether that is just for Hitachi training, who knows.

Suddenly the activity at Aycliffe seems to of increased lately, with units appearing out from test sheds, and overnight mainline testing restarted after a long pause.

 

[ryan125hst]

Why not? Is that not how locomotives work?

True.

I was just suprised that a unit with an additional engine and with all four engines uprated, so clearly power output is the priority, has one less motor vehicle and (I think) four fewer traction motors than the other 5 coach trains of it's type.

Does anyone have details of the traction motors used on the Azumas vs the Auoras?

Are the Auoras unique in only having one transformer per set? I had always thought all driving vehicles have one on the Azumas etc but I may be wrong.

 

[D365]

When the 810s get the "EMR Intercity" vinyls applied on then this would indicate they are very close to entering service.

Why would the application of vinyls be, on its own, in any way indicative of entry into service?

EMR by now may be wishing to have stuck with Alstom to build the 810s, due to the 222s originally coming from Bombardier, instead of Hitachi.

Bombardier’s offering for Abellio EMR (as was) was a bi-mode Aventra. I can’t think that it would have had much in common with the 22x, which were a product of Bombardier/BN Bruges, other than the inside frame bogie lineage.

I was just suprised that a unit with an additional engine and with all four engines uprated, so clearly power output is the priority, has one less motor vehicle and (I think) four fewer traction motors than the other 5 coach trains of it's type.

Does anyone have details of the traction motors used on the Azumas vs the Auoras?

It’s all due to the requirement for an additional diesel power pack, and the reduction in carriage length. Reducing the number of traction motors (and increasing the effective power output of each motored axle) was intended to result in more efficient packaging of traction equipment within each Unit.

Are the Auoras unique in only having one transformer per set? I had always thought all driving vehicles have one on the Azumas etc but I may be wrong.

Yes that is correct. But on the 80x units it was only one of the two transformers in use at any time - on the vehicle where the pantograph was raised. Whereas the 810s have a 25kV busline from each pantograph driving vehicle to the single transformer trailer.

 

[Trainman40083]

One day the Auroras will enter service. I recall they had to maintain the same timings on diesel power as electric. By the time they enter service, the OHLE south of Bedford will all have been upgraded.

 

[Aspen90]

First one signed over to EMR - driver trainer training to commence by end of August…

 

[800001]

First one signed over to EMR - driver trainer training to commence by end of August…

Presuming that is 810008 which is at Etches Park?

 

[sh24]

So possibly into passenger service in the New Year?

 

[Aspen90]

Not sure of unit number - refresher for train the trainer next week, then gradually filter down to driver training. 10 car training planned for October onwards subject to Hitachi getting the unit out to EMR.

 

[800001]

Not sure of unit number - refresher for train the trainer next week, then gradually filter down to driver training. 10 car training planned for October onwards subject to Hitachi getting the unit out to EMR.

Cheers for the info.
810009 has been out on mainline testing over the last 2 weeks and there was meant to be a move to Etches Park from Newton Aycliffe yesterday, maybe 009 is next one planned.

Good to finally hear some positive progress.

 

[Tim__]

8 and 9 were part of the group to be rewired I believe?
So has the rewiring been completed and they are back building the others?

 

[ryan125hst]

Yes that is correct. But on the 80x units it was only one of the two transformers in use at any time - on the vehicle where the pantograph was raised. Whereas the 810s have a 25kV busline from each pantograph driving vehicle to the single transformer trailer.

Thank you, is that the case for 9 car units as well or do 9 car units use both transformers?