Chiltern MK5s Starting 2026 (non speculative updates thread)

[800001]

Apparently they are initially to be maintained at Eastleigh.
Tweet below for Richard Clinnick

https://x.com/clinnick1/status/1952743677593276925?s=46&t=JLp3J2Up_Gl_m9cQz-au6w

Mk 5A update: @chilternrailway will look for a new maintenance provider from 12/26 but under initial deal, CAF, UKRail and Arriva TrainCare will carry out maintenance on 68s and stock at Arriva TrainCare, Eastleigh. Central Rivers report was accurate at the time - plan changed

 

[KevinBrum12]

The Mk5A's are not going to be the crowd-shifters a 168x2 set is and that is not just an issue for Wembley match days but also when there is disruption on the Euston - New Street service. With the Wembley events and engineering work works Chiltern can plan ahead a bit, but of course not everything goes to plan.

In terms of the 68's I wonder if the planning takes account of a need for a "Thunderbird" or two if a 68 breaks down?

 

[satisnek]

It sounds good to me - those butchered Mark 3s are pretty grim (no internal doors, toilets removed, drab grey colour scheme, etc.).

 

[tfw756rider]

It sounds good to me - those butchered Mark 3s are pretty grim (no internal doors, toilets removed, drab grey colour scheme, etc.).

Toilets removed?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2025 ==

another write up on https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy98vjwl5x4o:

etc.

Richard Allan, the company's managing director, said: "We are thrilled for our customers that we will be able to replace our oldest trains, which are nearly 50 years old, and replace them with their modern equivalent that are just six years old and provide significant improvement to their on-board experience."

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Toilets removed?

Half of them were removed during the door conversion overhauls; they do still have them at one end of each carriage.

 

[tfw756rider]

When I was walking across from Birmingham New St to Moore St, I was looking up as it sounded like there was a Chinook or something flying over! But it was just the 68 idling at the end of the platform! The sort of tunnel roadway section that you have to pass under must have been acting like a bass reflex tube!

Could well have a similar resonant frequency to a 68's idle exhaust note.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2025 ==

Half of them were removed during the door conversion overhauls; they do still have them at one end of each carriage.

Thanks.

 

[43096]

033 has the CAF modifications too? What about 034?

Both 033 and 034 had the CAF modifications as back-ups for TPE.

 

[87015]

033 has the CAF modifications too? What about 034?

Has/will be taken off 033 and 034.

 

[LondonerTravel]

Does anyone on here know why the initial decision to reform them into 6 carriage sets was dropped? Maybe if Chiltern are going to take all the sets as they are, that they might introduce a more frequent service to mitigate against the lower capacity?

 

[43102EMR]

Does anyone on here know why the initial decision to reform them into 6 carriage sets was dropped? Maybe if Chiltern are going to take all the sets as they are, that they might introduce a more frequent service to mitigate against the lower capacity?

Was deemed too expensive

 

[hwl]

Does anyone on here know why the initial decision to reform them into 6 carriage sets was dropped? Maybe if Chiltern are going to take all the sets as they are, that they might introduce a more frequent service to mitigate against the lower capacity?

You would hope so! But in reality this would result in some fairly empty services or some trains doing very few services a day.

Reforming would have cost a fair bit, retaining first class will likely have been a similar cost saving measure. In reality this has just kicked the modification cost down the road for few years.

Fewer longer trains would be a much better operational and operating cost fit for the route.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Once they’re settled into service can’t they order some more mk5s from CAF to lengthen the sets if they need to?

 

[mike57]

Does anyone on here know why the initial decision to reform them into 6 carriage sets was dropped? Maybe if Chiltern are going to take all the sets as they are, that they might introduce a more frequent service to mitigate against the lower capacity?

The fact that are 'loco hauled' but then cannot be reformed quickly and easily means that the big advantage of loco hauled stock, the ability to reform according to operational needs, even on a day to day basis has been lost. Obviously another 'lets do it as cheap as possible' procurement. Surely individual carriages and DVTs could have been bought. The 'short term view' decisions that are taken on something which should have a 30 to 40 year life with refurbishment makes a joke of the way things are currently done. Other countries are managing to build carriages and driving vehicles where that method of operation is used. I assume the Mk5 sleepers can be reformed at will as they split and reform en-route on the Highland sleeper, so how come we went backwards for the TPE stock.

 

[PLY2AYS]

The fact that are 'loco hauled' but then cannot be reformed quickly and easily means that the big advantage of loco hauled stock, the ability to reform according to operational needs, even on a day to day basis has been lost. Obviously another 'lets do it as cheap as possible' procurement. Surely individual carriages and DVTs could have been bought. The 'short term view' decisions that are taken on something which should have a 30 to 40 year life with refurbishment makes a joke of the way things are currently done. Other countries are managing to build carriages and driving vehicles where that method of operation is used. I assume the Mk5 sleepers can be reformed at will as they split and reform en-route on the Highland sleeper, so how come we went backwards for the TPE stock.

Assuming this is to do with the fact they’re a fixed formation set, and to reconfigure the SDO and electrickery would have been a faff.

Imagine the publicity if it had been tinkered with and made the sets less reliable than current rolling stock…

 

[Yorkshire09876]

033 has the CAF modifications too? What about 034?

Both of them do, but they belong to DRS who clearly have no interest in passenger work these days, so seems unlikely that either will appear on Chiltern at any point.

 

[signed]

Other countries are managing to build carriages and driving vehicles where that method of operation is used

Most new-build Loco-hauled stock from European manufacturers are built as fixed-formation nowadays

 

[Falcon1200]

Probably someone high up in the DfT have demanded the return of first class for his daily commute from Bicester, outside peak times 1st class will be carrying fresh air or the odd chancer.

Perhaps the cost of reseating the First Class vehicles was an issue - And perhaps we should wait and see just how popular the First Class is!

And presumably this is proper First Class, not the Business Class that Chiltern has, or rather had, on its Mark 3 sets, in which First Class tickets were not valid, hopefully this will not be the case on the Mark 5 sets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And presumably this is proper First Class, not the Business Class that Chiltern has, or rather had, on its Mark 3 sets, in which First Class tickets were not valid, hopefully this will not be the case on the Mark 5 sets.

I'm almost certain they actually were accepted. But there'd be almost no reason to use a First Anytime ticket on Chiltern when refunding it and purchasing a dedicated ticket and the upgrade would be significantly cheaper.

 

[Falcon1200]

I'm almost certain they actually were accepted.

Not sure about fare paying passengers, but my First Class staff travel pass was not valid in Chiltern's Business Class.

 

[Tester]

I'm almost certain they actually were accepted. But there'd be almost no reason to use a First Anytime ticket on Chiltern when refunding it and purchasing a dedicated ticket and the upgrade would be significantly cheaper.

I used them with a first class Eurail pass without difficulty.

 

[LondonerTravel]

Chiltern have said on their Twitter account that there will be no catering offered on the mk5. I think personally, a trolley service should be offered if paying for a first class fare.

 

[800001]

Chiltern have said on their Twitter account that there will be no catering offered on the mk5. I think personally, a trolley service should be offered if paying for a first class fare.

Nice to have, but how much does that cost for staff, trolleys, contracts with food companies etc.

 

[Harpo]

The fact that are 'loco hauled' but then cannot be reformed quickly and easily means that the big advantage of loco hauled stock, the ability to reform according to operational needs, even on a day to day basis has been lost.

I reckon you’d need to go back decades to the last examples of flexible LHS train lengths on daytime services in the UK.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I reckon you’d need to go back decades to the last examples of flexible LHS train lengths on daytime services in the UK.

Indeed, when the West Coast moved to push pull with the mk3 DVTs it found it actually needed less coaches as keeping sets in fixed formation meant all the exams on that set were due at the same time instead of previously knocking single vehicles out and replacing them for exams.

 

[jamieh27]

Nice to have, but how much does that cost for staff, trolleys, contracts with food companies etc.

Chiltern have said on their Twitter account that there will be no catering offered on the mk5. I think personally, a trolley service should be offered if paying for a first class fare.

They stopped because people were bringing their own snacks so it was a waste of money to keep it going.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They stopped because people were bringing their own snacks so it was a waste of money to keep it going.

Effectively the quality of station outlets (particularly M&S Food) and a desire for "proper" coffee has killed the concept dead or close to dead in most places, not just the UK, aside from "proper" restaurant cars.

 

[LittleRedTrain]

I reckon you’d need to go back decades to the last examples of flexible LHS train lengths on daytime services in the UK.

Not altering the sets during the working day, but Chiltern quite often remove defective vehicles from their Mk3 rakes and run them as 5 car sets.
Presumably they also have the ability to chop and change vehicles and DVTs between sets.

 

[CR165022]

Both of them do, but they belong to DRS who clearly have no interest in passenger work these days, so seems unlikely that either will appear on Chiltern at any point.

Wouldn't it be a similar situation that 68008 & 009 do now?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Wouldn't it be a similar situation that 68008 & 009 do now?

No, this would be different.
The current lease for 68s to Chiltern is from DRS.

The new lease for the 68s is direct from Beacon, so leasing anything from DRS would be a separate hire.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The fact that are 'loco hauled' but then cannot be reformed quickly and easily means that the big advantage of loco hauled stock, the ability to reform according to operational needs, even on a day to day basis has been lost. Obviously another 'lets do it as cheap as possible' procurement. Surely individual carriages and DVTs could have been bought. The 'short term view' decisions that are taken on something which should have a 30 to 40 year life with refurbishment makes a joke of the way things are currently done.

There is your issue - "short term Britain" where everything has to be considered in periods - generally five years, like the CPs or ahem parliaments etc. This country cannot cope with the thought of "for it's lifetime" and the shenanigans of the TPE franchise is a classic example , pretty hence why the Mk5s are where they are.