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MML Electrification: is it going to be completed?

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John R

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The Midland Main Line electrification has been paused...


The next phase of electrification of the Midland Main Line has been paused. Given the exisiting trains in use on this stretch of railway and the costs and time needed to electrify the route we are focusing our investment on other schemes over the SR period. We will continue to keep the potential for full electrification of the route under review as part of our plans to decarbonise our railways and as funding becomes available in future.
 
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1D54

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So when will we be told officially what the hell is going on in these parts (LE) with this on/off/on/off charade? No wires, serious problems with the 810s and potentially having to go to the capital on 3 car units before the year is out!!
 

cle

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I would say the doing of it 'on the sly' has been to avoid backlash - Oxford style - of when it inevitably fizzles out or is cancelled. And here we are. So today, us rail-enthusiasts may know, but the average Labour voting folk in the East Midlands are not pissed off or let down.

Or the government are unaware/NR are operating somewhat independently and they're not in the loop about discrete works beyond Wigston! Easily possible.

Shocking that they are pursuing so many 'diesel friendly' rail projects - EWR to Cambridge (does 2.5b get us to Cambs?) - would see a whole new railway built without wires, unthinkable in most countries. And the Oxford works, the Chiltern protection etc etc - all perpetuating and growing diesel operations! If only connecting all of these things (and having wires in all four directions at Bedford - getting us back on topic!) - might be a real improvement for the network!

It's not like they are shilling battery units especially hard here either - but feels like decarbonization has gone down the pecking order.
 

londonmidland

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Paused for now, but then what? Delayed indefinitely and then eventually cancelled? I don't want to sound negative, but we've seen this time and time again when it comes to rail investment projects within the East Midlands.
 

Brubulus

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I would say the doing of it 'on the sly' has been to avoid backlash - Oxford style - of when it inevitably fizzles out or is cancelled. And here we are. So today, us rail-enthusiasts may know, but the average Labour voting folk in the East Midlands are not pissed off or let down.

Or the government are unaware/NR are operating somewhat independently and they're not in the loop about discrete works beyond Wigston! Easily possible.

Shocking that they are pursuing so many 'diesel friendly' rail projects - EWR to Cambridge (does 2.5b get us to Cambs?) - would see a whole new railway built without wires, unthinkable in most countries. And the Oxford works, the Chiltern protection etc etc - all perpetuating and growing diesel operations! If only connecting all of these things (and having wires in all four directions at Bedford - getting us back on topic!) - might be a real improvement for the network!

It's not like they are shilling battery units especially hard here either - but feels like decarbonization has gone down the pecking order.
As was recently said at the Transport Select Committee, decarbonization is not the way to promote electrification. The railway's emissions are a rounding error. However electrification enables a more efficient railway and that needs to be how it's case must be made.

The fundamental issue is the lack of cost control, which is partially resolved via a rolling program, but sadly that seems unlikely.
 

Hophead

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So why has Network Rail been allowed to waste so much time, effort and money on work which the government apparently regards as unnecessary?
 

NCT

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As was recently said at the Transport Select Committee, decarbonization is not the way to promote electrification. The railway's emissions are a rounding error. However electrification enables a more efficient railway and that needs to be how it's case must be made.

The fundamental issue is the lack of cost control, which is partially resolved via a rolling program, but sadly that seems unlikely.

It really should be framed as electrification equipping the railway to absorb the significant mode shift required to achieve transport decarbonisation.
 

QSK19

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Yet another example of governments of all colours peeing in the same pot. Change of governing party, same old story with the MML being a political plaything. Failing Grayling before and now Snidey Heidi.

Not sure about others, but I don’t feel as let down this time round - it was always to be expected and the feeling was that cancelling it (let’s face it, “pausing” is merely cancellation in all but name) could happen at any minute.

Nevertheless, I think it’s curtains for many years to come - presumably, the 810s will get batteries once technology allows them to have enough juice to get from Wigston & back and then no need to ever electrify beyond there.
 

Edvid

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Just to rub it in:
Electrification from Kettering to WigstonCompletion of the electrification of the Midland Main Line between Kettering and Wigston, allowing the bi-mode trains, which can run on both diesel and electric to run on electric power further north from St Pancras.

Have they included that in the £10.2bn rail enhancements pot? Despite the ORR declaring it complete over four months ago?
 

153375

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The press release states “completion of electrification between Kettering & Wigston” Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this already complete and has been authorised for use? With this “pausing” and Midlands Rail Hub only focusing on the West Midlands this just proves once again that the East Midlands is the poor relation when it comes to rail enhancements. Short of continuing to electrify the whole line surely it would have made sense to continue to Leicester.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Umm was expecting this one to at least progress a bit further North as its ready to put shovels in the ground unlike many of the other schemes aka East West Rail which will take a decade to complete so they had the opportunity to celebrate the benefits of the investment. The problem here was always going to be they have the photo op for the 810's and then can trade off we can convert these to duckweed power in the back pocket so not surprised.

The bigger problem across the rail sector is the failed HS2 programme has absorbed and continues absorbed billions more per year that was expected even 3 years ago so there remains insufficient funding. TRU is also sucking away vast amounts of budget as well. When any historian looks backs at this they will see that once it was clear HS2 was derailed it was that that should have been paused and released funds to projects that will make a difference. But what do we get in this announcement is the need to further beef up the power supplies on WCML to support traffic growth.

Anyhow i would imagine NR will continue to make passive provision in the likes of track and structure renewals along the MML to accommodate OLE in the future.
 

QSK19

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Paused for now, but then what? Delayed indefinitely and then eventually cancelled? I don't want to sound negative, but we've seen this time and time again when it comes to rail investment projects within the East Midlands.
I think this isn’t good news. Last time Graying cancelled it, I had a glimmer of hope because the movement towards decarbonisation was very real and may have sparked electrification (excuse the pun!). But this time round, we have bi-mode trains which will do a good chunk of the journey on electric; so I am far less hopeful of this being reactivated.
 

londonmidland

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Short of continuing to electrify the whole line surely it would have made sense to continue to Leicester.
My thoughts exactly. This seems very 'half-arsed', as the electrification itself doesn't even start or end in a logical location.

Speculation mode on but with it starting/ending at Leicester station itself, this could enable a future fully electric 'shuttle' service between Leicester and St. Pancras, utilising the Class 360s.
 

HSTEd

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So the government appears to have kiled the scheme without wanting to admit that they have done so, whilst still chalking up the costs of the Wigston segment in their total despite it being finished.

Typical government press release in that regard I suppose!
It really should be framed as electrification equipping the railway to absorb the significant mode shift required to achieve transport decarbonisation.
In that situation the programme would probably end up more focussed on power supply upgrades on already electric lines. A large fraction of railway traffic is already electric after all.

Railway electrification is being hit by a pincer of rising costs and improving battery capabilities.
A lot of perceived battery options in the railway literature seem to be based on trials from several years ago, using now-outdated batteries and trains not actually designed for battery operations.
 

Brubulus

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So the government appears to have kiled the scheme without wanting to admit that they have done so, whilst still chalking up the costs of the Wigston segment in their total despite it being finished.

Typical government press release in that regard I suppose!

In that situation the programme would probably end up more focussed on power supply upgrades on already electric lines. A large fraction of railway traffic is already electric after all.

Railway electrification is being hit by a pincer of rising costs and improving battery capabilities.
A lot of perceived battery options in the railway literature seem to be based on trials from several years ago, using now-outdated batteries and trains not actually designed for battery operations.
The best way to enable efficient battery operations is to electrify around key stations, with the first 2 key targets being Dore-Meadowhall and the Bristol area.
 

Mikw

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So when will we be told officially what the hell is going on in these parts (LE) with this on/off/on/off charade? No wires, serious problems with the 810s and potentially having to go to the capital on 3 car units before the year is out!!
I guess there's a reason why Nat Express and Flixbus are now doing about 35 Leicester to London services a day
 

Vexed

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I guess there's a reason why Nat Express and Flixbus are now doing about 35 Leicester to London services a day
Wow. I'm surprised it's anywhere near that high. With 5 car 222s it's equivalent in Standard class seat wise to around 10 a day, so an extra 1tph.

Speculation mode on but with it starting/ending at Leicester station itself, this could enable a future fully electric 'shuttle' service between Leicester and St. Pancras, utilising the Class 360s
Assuming the electrification to Leicester stays cancelled, how about a BEMU fleet running 2tph 12 car London to Kettering, then 8 car to Leicester and 4 to Melton Mowbray via Corby (or maybe Kettering to Leicester via Melton Mowbray? Maybe pushing the batteries there).
 

The exile

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The optimist thinks “this is a 4 year spending review. Quietly NR are being given the nod to continue with individual preparation jobs that as isolated projects fall below the spending radar and which, when spun out, will take those 4 years anyway and will reduce the outstanding costs”.
 

eldomtom2

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As was recently said at the Transport Select Committee, decarbonization is not the way to promote electrification. The railway's emissions are a rounding error. However electrification enables a more efficient railway and that needs to be how it's case must be made.

The fundamental issue is the lack of cost control, which is partially resolved via a rolling program, but sadly that seems unlikely.
The problem is that with electric road vehicles gaining ground the railway needs to decarbonise if it wants to make the "modal shift from cars to trains reduces carbon emissions" argument.
 

1D54

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I guess there's a reason why Nat Express and Flixbus are now doing about 35 Leicester to London services a day
I have no idea of the passenger numbers using Leicester - St Pancras services but the the people using the coach are certainly not deserting EMR to do it as trains look well populated every day from what i can see.
 

jontyasaurus

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I'm sure the alpaca lady near Ambergate will be thrilled to hear that NR cut down all those lineside trees during nesting season for no tangible short-term benefit!

FWIW, the SPL compound at Chesterfield is still present as of last Saturday (5/7), but I haven't seen any activity there since it was built. In fact, someone's left the canteen portakabin door open for the last week...
 

Brubulus

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I have no idea of the passenger numbers using Leicester - St Pancras services but the the people using the coach are certainly not deserting EMR to do it as trains look well populated every day from what i can see.
Shows that there is substantial suppressed demand due to lack of capacity.

I'm sure the alpaca lady near Ambergate will be thrilled to hear that NR cut down all those lineside trees during nesting season for no tangible short-term benefit!

FWIW, the SPL compound at Chesterfield is still present as of last Saturday (5/7), but I haven't seen any activity there since it was built. In fact, someone's left the canteen portakabin door open for the last week...
There's been another article about her in the Telegraph.
 

MarkyT

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The best way to enable efficient battery operations is to electrify around key stations, with the first 2 key targets being Dore-Meadowhall and the Bristol area.
I suggest trunks 'n hubs. Premier mainlines all largely continuously wired eventually, though work programme may be flexibly phased to meet expediencies, taking advantage of bimodes on diesel for significant distances between electric islands while they last. Islands around major hubs are beneficial as trains often have long layovers there, an opportunity to take a good charge while waiting, using little onboard. Aim to reach a tipping point where batteries can bridge most remaining gaps and large scale removal of diesel power packs can commence on IC stock in favour of battery modules. Different subfleets may have different solutions and timings for this step. For example, Devon and Cornwall route units may need to retain more diesels on board for longer.
 

Brubulus

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I suggest trunks 'n hubs. Premier mainlines all largely continuously wired eventually, though work programme may be flexibly phased to meet expediencies, taking advantage of bimodes on diesel for significant distances between electric islands while they last. Islands around major hubs are beneficial as trains often have long layovers there, an opportunity to take a good charge while waiting, using little onboard. Aim to reach a tipping point where batteries can bridge most remaining gaps and large scale removal of diesel power packs can commence on IC stock in favour of battery modules. Different subfleets may have different solutions and timings for this step. For example, Devon and Cornwall route units may need to retain more diesels on board for longer.
The range that can be gained from modern batteries is incredible, so wiring mainlines in their entirely is unnecessary for passenger operations (there is still a reason to do it for Freight, since batteries can only really fulfill a last few miles role). For Cornwall services, charging at Penzance alongside wiring between Taunton and Exeter is probably enough, but this would effectively require batteries the size of the GUs on the 80x. However batteries that size would enable equivalent performance on OHL and battery.
 

Ken H

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I don't think the fast lines between Kings Norton and Barnt Green are wired. The cross-city electrification only covered the slow lines IIRC.
KIngs Norton and Longbridge. After Longbridge it was a 2 track railway to Barnt Green. Unless they have changed it in the last 8 years. But they did bromsgrove electrification after I left the W Mids.

Kings Norton - Longbridge was mostly span wires. How difficult it would be converting the span wires to electrify the main lines i dont know. Maybe easier replacing with portals.

One but of fun would be wiring one of the fast tracks through Kings Norton which is still non-electrified.

Kings Norton longbridge is paired by use with slows on the outside. Some intermediate stations have derelict platforms on the fast lines.
 
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JD2168

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So Sheffield continues to be about the largest City without an electric train service which is quite embarrassing & a bit of a joke to be honest
 

NCT

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So the government appears to have kiled the scheme without wanting to admit that they have done so, whilst still chalking up the costs of the Wigston segment in their total despite it being finished.

Typical government press release in that regard I suppose!

In that situation the programme would probably end up more focussed on power supply upgrades on already electric lines. A large fraction of railway traffic is already electric after all.

Railway electrification is being hit by a pincer of rising costs and improving battery capabilities.
A lot of perceived battery options in the railway literature seem to be based on trials from several years ago, using now-outdated batteries and trains not actually designed for battery operations.

The majority of car kms in the country are not on the electrified main lines.

It's trips from Syston/Sileby/Barrow-upon-Soar and similar places up and down the country that remain too car based. The Nottingham / Derby / Leicester locals should be running with 4-car electric trains with minimum half-hourly frequencies. At the same time we need to stop building Barratt Homes and redensify our town centres and inner areas so that active travel and public transport become the default choice over the car. In the longer term places like Radcliffe and Burton Joyce should function like Houten and Woerden with equivalent quality rail transport.
 

Killingworth

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So Sheffield continues to be about the largest City without an electric train service which is quite embarrassing & a bit of a joke to be honest
I was able to button hole former Rail Minister Huw Merriman a couple of times about electrification to Sheffield, most recently in April 2024. Nailing him to a date was impossible. Early 2030s, to which I suggested 2035 would be my earliest estimate. He didn't disagree, hence my lack of surprise to hear it's not happening.

But surely it must be completed through Leicester to Derby and Nottingham by 2035? All those billions to HS2, from which we've been cut out, and we on the MML are seemingly stuck at South Wigston!

Knowing the Sheffield area and the restricted tracks into and through the station I fully understand reluctance to tackle that can of worms. I'm afraid my latest electrification estimate is now "not likely in my lifetime". Rather like Bristol and Swansea. Batteries will help to make trains green, but Sheffield station and approaches will remain problematic when it comes to providing greater capacity.
 
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