Where are the ticket inspectors?

[modernrail]

Or something way more likely, especially in London, no tickets and just bumping through the barriers. Mostly at Stratford.

I have definitely noticed an increase in bumping across the tube network. Often with gate line staff looking on not reacting.

In contrast the gate line staff at Euston, EMT St P, Standsted Airport and Manchester Piccadilly can make you feel like a criminal for daring to:
- turn up at all
- turn up with a valid ticket
- turn up to a gateline more than 5 minutes before the train departs or less than 5 minutes before the train departs
- be alive
-not be the other gateline staff member they were already having a conversation with and don’t intend to stop it just because they have 500 people to offer customer service to
- have a bike on your person (the aggressive assumption is always you don’t have a reservation and require a pre-scolding)
- be willing to or hoping to find any joy in life from the people you interact with.

 

[frankmoh]

I have never seen people bump trains at Waterloo in my life. Probably the most chill staff at a terminus station too. (Aside from Waterloo East of course)

 

[TUC]

It's very rare to make a journey on Northern or Trans Pennine Express services without at least one inspection,.in my experience. If there isn't one, it's usually because either:

The conductor's ticket machine is defective.

The conductor feels threatened (mainly on late night trains).

or

The train has changed crew at a location where very few - if any - passengers have joined and the relieving conductor has been assured by their predecessor that all tickets have already been checked. (Rarely).

I think that will be similar on most double-staffed regional services....but I realise that the situation is rather different on DOO services.

TPE, yes. For Northern, it does seem to vary significantly between staff and the time of day

 

[modernrail]

I remember being very surprised when I moved down south that guards seem to be able to get away with not doing any ticket inspections giving them plenty of time to play with whereas guards on northern were not just inspecting but also selling. They are also vastly more visible within the passenger areas of the train.

Perhaps unfairly but feels to me like northern guards are working at least x4 harder with hardly a spare moment whereas southern guards might invite you to find their little office for a chat if you fancy it.

It has hugely impacted my view on 2nd member of staff. I support it in principle but on a subsidised railway I can’t deny if feels like the 2nd member of staff on southern TOCs could be doing a lot more for their money!

 

[frankmoh]

I remember being very surprised when I moved down south that guards seem to be able to get away with not doing any ticket inspections giving them plenty of time to play with whereas guards on northern were not just inspecting but also selling. They are also vastly more visible within the passenger areas of the train.

Perhaps unfairly but feels to me like northern guards are working at least x4 harder with hardly a spare moment whereas southern guards might invite you to find their little office for a chat if you fancy it.

It has hugely impacted my view on 2nd member of staff. I support it in principle but on a subsidised railway I can’t deny if feels like the 2nd member of staff on southern TOCs could be doing a lot more for their money!

Not even the whole of the South, it's really just London. I have to say that the people on St Ives Bay line are all very nice when I went on it, although that's probably because they don't want to ruin anyone's holiday.

 

[Wolfie]

I remember being very surprised when I moved down south that guards seem to be able to get away with not doing any ticket inspections giving them plenty of time to play with whereas guards on northern were not just inspecting but also selling. They are also vastly more visible within the passenger areas of the train.

Perhaps unfairly but feels to me like northern guards are working at least x4 harder with hardly a spare moment whereas southern guards might invite you to find their little office for a chat if you fancy it.

It has hugely impacted my view on 2nd member of staff. I support it in principle but on a subsidised railway I can’t deny if feels like the 2nd member of staff on southern TOCs could be doing a lot more for their money!

Not many 8, 10 or even 12 coach trains on Northern though....

 

[LittleRedTrain]

Was checked by Revenue Inspectors (as opposed to guards) on a Chiltern Mk3 set last week, first time in over 7 years of travelling on them regularly.
However, checks by a guard happen quite regularly on the Mk3s, and 165s/168s north of Banbury.
Don't think I've ever seen RPIs on the DOO services south of Banbury, though I suspect they probably concentrate more on the short distance stoppers.
It does seem Chiltern rely heavily on the gateline at Marylebone (and the number of Wembley Stadium dodgers that virtually hand themselves in on a plate when those tickets are blocked by the barriers).

On my recent TfW travels, was checked on every train (as many stations are unstaffed and have no ticketing facilities). One on the Cambrian even had one member of staff doing doors and the other doing tickets, as well as helping with the ramp assists.

 

[Krokodil]

Not many 8, 10 or even 12 coach trains on Northern though....

Doesn't matter how long the train is, we've seen plenty of discussion about lazy OBSs on here before. They could at least make an effort...

 

[D6130]

Doesn't matter how long the train is, we've seen plenty of discussion about lazy OBSs on here before. They could at least make an effort...

Yep....when I was a guard at Brighton in the mid-1980s, I could get through 8 cars of a packed 12 car express (stopping only at East Croydon) on a Friday evening. I would take at least £200 with just a duplicate carbon paper ticket pad and a biro pen. Next time I worked the same train, I would start from the other end just to catch out the regular bilkers!

 

[MatthewE707]

I can't imagine there's any chance of inspection on journeys such as Manchester Oxford Road to Piccadilly - just not enough time to get down the train!

 

[dmsh23]

I can't imagine there's any chance of inspection on journeys such as Manchester Oxford Road to Piccadilly - just not enough time to get down the train!

Somehow, an inspector checked my ticket between Piccadilly and Oxford Road on a TPE service. I noticed that TPE has both the train guard and inspectors at times.

 

[Starmill]

It's incredibly rare for the conductor not to be checking tickets on Transport for Wales. The usual exceptions apply if they're dealing with something of a higher priority such as a passenger who is in distress or if on occasion the train is too full.

 

[frankmoh]

Do tickets often get checked often on suburban stations outside of London?

 

[modernrail]

I can't imagine there's any chance of inspection on journeys such as Manchester Oxford Road to Piccadilly - just not enough time to get down the train!

No need. Both gated.

 

[Horizon22]

Two of the operators you mentioned - Thameslink and Southeastern - are DOO (or primarily DOO) services, so there are not guards on these trains. Even the DLR, whilst they have Passenger Service Agents (PSAs) they have other door duties and it stops every few minutes. That being said more likely to be checked by DLR staff I find. Whilst there may be revenue protection staff, on-board these will be few and far between as there are thousands of daily services and they can only cover so much. In addition, there appears to be much more focus on station blocks I find, especially at known "hot-spots". Even if staff are on-board and checking tickets, if they go through and find someone who needs a Penalty Fare, they are then tied up doing the paperwork for that and may not be able to go through the whole train.

This is very different to long-distance and intercity operations whereby there is either a quite thorough check at terminals, or there is plenty of time - especially between station stops - for a guard / TM / RPI to go through the train.

 

[modernrail]

Not many 8, 10 or even 12 coach trains on Northern though....

I don’t see the relevance. A guard can still get though plenty of carriages and to the next door.

There will the odd one where there are too many people or where overcrowding means there are more important things to focus on like safety, but there are tonnes of journeys or sections where that is not the case,

 

[Krokodil]

Yep....when I was a guard at Brighton in the mid-1980s, I could get through 8 cars of a packed 12 car express (stopping only at East Croydon) on a Friday evening. I would take at least £200 with just a duplicate carbon paper ticket pad and a biro pen. Next time I worked the same train, I would start from the other end just to catch out the regular bilkers!

I'm not that old, but when I worked slam door coaching stock I could usually get through at least two full & standing coaches in the 15 minutes it took to get to Newton-le-Willows. Bear in mind the need to be in place to release the CDL, the inability to make announcements from anywhere other than the guard's van etc.

It's incredibly rare for the conductor not to be checking tickets on Transport for Wales. The usual exceptions apply if they're dealing with something of a higher priority such as a passenger who is in distress or if on occasion the train is too full.

You say the last bit as if it is a rare occurrence . Summer is here, Control are about to be deluged with "full & standing" reports.

I don’t see the relevance. A guard can still get though plenty of carriages and to the next door.

And Northern make it especially awkward to do both revenue and doors. It was a pain in the neck when we had a pair of their 150s on hire with no intermediate door controls. So what excuse do the OBSs have for staying in their office/cab?

 

[Sleepy]

Yep....when I was a guard at Brighton in the mid-1980s, I could get through 8 cars of a packed 12 car express (stopping only at East Croydon) on a Friday evening. I would take at least £200 with just a duplicate carbon paper ticket pad and a biro pen. Next time I worked the same train, I would start from the other end just to catch out the regular bilkers!

The big problem now is e-tickets and digital railcards make ticket inspections far slower than they used to be, those that struggle to load up their phones (especially those that scroll through loads of emails instead of using app) can slow down the process considerably. Then you have certain apps that are really not fit for purpose (eg. trainpal)

 

[modernrail]

The big problem now is e-tickets and digital railcards make ticket inspections far slower than they used to be, those that struggle to load up their phones (especially those that scroll through loads of emails instead of using app) can slow down the process considerably. Then you have certain apps that are really not fit for purpose (eg. trainpal)

I can see that and it must be frustrating for guards. Even with the best will in the world I have had my battery run out whilst on a train with no plugs. A few times.

 

[Haywain]

Not many 8, 10 or even 12 coach trains on Northern though....

Not that many guards on suburban trains around London either.

 

[frankmoh]

Not that many guards on suburban trains around London either.

Station staff outside of termini and junction stations are severely lacking in London.

 

[crablab]

GWR guards don't seem to do ticket checks and there aren't barriers on several platforms at Paddington.

I have been checked by RPIs on the train once or twice in the last few years, and there was the notable blockade for a week on 8/9 earlier this year (apparently to see if it's worth putting in barriers).

I've never seen revenue blockades at Reading, outside of Reading Festival (where they tape over the optical scanners and check manually).

Most of the time my ticket isn't checked.

 

[Jimini]

GWR guards don't seem to do ticket checks and there aren't barriers on several platforms at Paddington.

I have been checked by RPIs on the train once or twice in the last few years, and there was the notable blockade for a week on 8/9 earlier this year (apparently to see if it's worth putting in barriers).

I've never seen revenue blockades at Reading, outside of Reading Festival (where they tape over the optical scanners and check manually).

Most of the time my ticket isn't checked.

I saw one around a month ago or so (the main entrance, at least).

 

[Sonic1234]

Does anyone have any experience with ticket inspectors on the other companies within London?

Within London it's mostly short trips, frequent stops and everyone uses Oyster and Contactless which is harder to check (you can't really check contactless). The majority of stations are gated, there are few ungated - ungated flows and the muscle memory of tapping in kicks in for most people. Plus lower fares and the general ignorance of what a journey costs makes it seem not worth getting away with it (except for the ones who barge through barriers, but you're never going to get them to pay).

Paper tickets are overpriced, so someone buying a short fare on paper is probably giving the railway more money.

I had one ticket check on SWR within London, a pointless "visual inspection" by someone who seemed to speak no English. Show something that approximated a ticket, bank card or Oyster card and it was all good. SWR guards on the services that go beyond the Zones tend to be proactive in ticket checking.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I'm on my 8th train today (All Line Rover ). Ticket checked on six, including Shildon to Bishop Auckland!

 

[philthetube]

From my experience, I'm probably inspected on one in 10 Thameslink journeys. My last one was around 9pm on a Friday.

Interestingly when I did 4 days of commuting Hatfield to Stevenage I got inspected on 2 of the 4 morning Great Northern trains.

I also got inspected on my second ever journey on Metrolink. Never on TfL though.

If all tickets were checked once in every ten journeys and people without were prosecuted that would be plenty of checks.

 

[bramling]

I remember being very surprised when I moved down south that guards seem to be able to get away with not doing any ticket inspections giving them plenty of time to play with whereas guards on northern were not just inspecting but also selling. They are also vastly more visible within the passenger areas of the train.

Perhaps unfairly but feels to me like northern guards are working at least x4 harder with hardly a spare moment whereas southern guards might invite you to find their little office for a chat if you fancy it.

It has hugely impacted my view on 2nd member of staff. I support it in principle but on a subsidised railway I can’t deny if feels like the 2nd member of staff on southern TOCs could be doing a lot more for their money!

For as long as I can remember there’s always been some level of regional variability. The regional railways TOC guards have always tended to be more hot on ticket inspection that the London area ones, with one exception IME which was South West Trains (except the London metro routes).

There’s other factors at play as well - more DOO in the London area, longer trains, more ticket issuing facilities at stations, and - in more recent times - an increasing likelihood of encountering some extremely bad people in and around London.

A generation or so ago gating was a solution to much of this, but again there has been something of an increase in “let me through or else” behaviour, which means gatelines aren’t effective in preventing anything beyond opportunistic fare evasion.

 

[Hadders]

If all tickets were checked once in every ten journeys and people without were prosecuted that would be plenty of checks.

I do not condone fare evasion at all but will the cost of the additional ticket inspectors, plus their employment costs (eg employers national insurance, pension, uniforms, training additional management to supervise etc) cover the additional fares recovered?

 

[Vexed]

If all tickets were checked once in every ten journeys and people without were prosecuted that would be plenty of checks.

I don't really think my experience of 1 in 10 you quoted is particularly normal. It's a quite small sample. A couple years ago when I did St Albans to Haywards Heath a 10 times a year for a couple years I never got inspected once, and that's a longer distance than I do regularly on Thameslink now.

Maybe it's good/bad luck but I seem to be getting rather more than average at the moment!

I think more like 1 in 20 is a good rate to aim for on DOO that's enough of a deterrent. Short journeys will always be a hard one of course.

 

[Sonic1234]

I do not condone fare evasion at all but will the cost of the additional ticket inspectors, plus their employment costs (eg employers national insurance, pension, uniforms, training additional management to supervise etc) cover the additional fares recovered?

It's probably marginal already, especially when some of those caught will give false details, not have any details to give, can't be traced, refuse to answer any questions and/or have no money.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jul 2025 ==

Short journeys will always be a hard one of course.

Short journeys are where gatelines work. It avoids the pay when challenged chancers who will risk no one checking them for a couple of stops, and even if people buy a short fare or use a discount they're not entitled to, you've got most of the revenue.