2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro London)

[Mawkie]

The good folks of Reddit have apparently spotted another 24 Stock (38004) coming through Sevenoaks this morning.

(24 Stock 38004 being hauled through Sevenoaks)

A contributor suggested this path from RTT:

Realtime Trains | 6X10 0315 Dollands Moor (Gbrf) to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 03/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 6X10 0315 departure from Dollands Moor (Gbrf) to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 03/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(Obviously, being Reddit, I can't guarantee the veracity of the information.)

 

[800001]

The good folks of Reddit have apparently spotted another 24 Stock (38004) coming through Sevenoaks this morning.
View attachment 183026
(24 Stock 38004 being hauled through Sevenoaks)

A contributor suggested this path from RTT:

Realtime Trains | 6X10 0315 Dollands Moor (Gbrf) to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 03/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 6X10 0315 departure from Dollands Moor (Gbrf) to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 03/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(Obviously, being Reddit, I can't guarantee the veracity of the information.)

Then works this to Goole

Realtime Trains | 6X12 0645 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Goole Glassworks Gbrf | 03/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 6X12 0645 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Goole Glassworks Gbrf on 03/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[thomalex]

Curious where all these are going to be parked up as more arrive as presumably you'll have a cross over period where all the 73 stock and the 24 stock are having to be stabled. Or will we see a halt to new deliveries until the 73s are able to be taken out of service and it’s one in one out?

 

[Thirteen]

Curious where all these are going to be parked up as more arrive as presumably you'll have a cross over period where all the 73 stock and the 24 stock are having to be stabled. Or will we see a halt to new deliveries until the 73s are able to be taken out of service and it’s one in one out?

The building process has already being slowed down for financial reasons, I imagine the 2024 stock from Vienna will come first then the ones from Goole in due course.

 

[Momodou2003]

Is this the 1st or 2nd 24 stock that’s being transported to Goole

 

[Dstock7080]

Is this the 1st or 2nd 24 stock that’s being transported to Goole

Second delivery to UK
38004+48004

 

[800001]

Is this the 1st or 2nd 24 stock that’s being transported to Goole

1st to Goole I believe?
The 1st set to arrive in Uk went to Underground depot I think.

 

[Mawkie]

The 1st set to arrive in Uk went to Underground depot I think.

38001 was moving around NFDS today when I went past.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Correct, second set to the UK and the first to go to Goole - it is likely that all deliveries from Vienna will now go to Goole first for modification works.
Edit: duff gen. The temporary move to Goole was due to Ruislip being unable to accommodate the unit when first delivered.

Suppose we better start a fancy list of where everything is:

Unit No.	Delivered to UK	Delivered to London Underground
38001	15/10/2024 (to Ruislip depot)	15/10/2024 (to Ruislip depot) 01/04/2025 (to Northfields depot)
38004	03/07/2025 (to Goole)	17/07/2025 (to Ruislip depot) 03/09/2025 (to Northfields depot)
38030	11/09/2025 (to Ruislip depot)	11/09/2025 (to Ruislip depot) 23/09/2025 (to Northfields depot)

 

[AM9]

Correct, second set to the UK and the first to go to Goole - it is likely that all deliveries from Vienna will now go to Goole first for modification works.

Suppose we better start a fancy list of where everything is:

Unit No.	Delivered to UK	Delivered to London Underground
38001	15/10/2024 (to Ruislip depot)	15/10/2024 (to Ruislip depot) 01/04/2025 (to Northfields depot)
38004	03/07/2025 (to Goole)

It seems that the mainstream local news has picked up on the delay issue, - asking the usual journo's question, who is to blame for the loading/structure gauge incompatibility. Surely this is actually known within TfL so somebody will need to speak up soon.

 

[MDB1images]

The good folks of Reddit have apparently spotted another 24 Stock (38004) coming through Sevenoaks this morning.
View attachment 183026
(24 Stock 38004 being hauled through Sevenoaks)

A contributor suggested this path from RTT:

Realtime Trains | 6X10 0315 Dollands Moor (Gbrf) to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 03/07/2025

Real-time train running information for 6X10 0315 departure from Dollands Moor (Gbrf) to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 03/07/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(Obviously, being Reddit, I can't guarantee the veracity of the information.)

Very long shot, but don't suppose anyone knows when it left Vienna?

 

[bluegoblin7]

It seems that the mainstream local news has picked up on the delay issue, - asking the usual journo's question, who is to blame for the loading/structure gauge incompatibility. Surely this is actually known within TfL so somebody will need to speak up soon.

TfL issued a press release on the delay a week or so ago, so I don’t think anything else will be forthcoming.

The issues are known and are not uncommon for any new rolling stock. I’m being particularly vague with my wording for obvious reasons (for those unaware I work for TfL and get to know a lot about things like this through my TU role) but I also wouldn’t read anything more into the situation than what has been placed in the official statements. Local, third party news is often wrong, and often tipped off by misinformed internal sources. Whether that (fully) applies here I won’t be drawn to, but it has certainly applied to many railway stories over the years

 

[Thirteen]

TBH it's rare for new rolling stock to work perfectly first time round, that's why testing and snagging has to be done.

 

[800001]

TBH it's rare for new rolling stock to work perfectly first time round, that's why testing and snagging has to be done.

But surely the gauge of the train shoud fit the network it is designed to work on?

 

[Thirteen]

But surely the gauge of the train shoud fit the network it is designed to work on?

The fact the 2024 stock has been seen being tested at Ealing Common suggests it's not a gauge issue.

 

[JamesT]

But surely the gauge of the train shoud fit the network it is designed to work on?

You’d think so… https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727

The French train operator SNCF has discovered that 2,000 new trains it ordered at a cost of 15bn euros ($20.5bn; £12.1bn) are too wide for many regional platforms.

(Not saying this is the case for the 24 stock, just mentioning an occasion when it has gone wrong)

 

[AM9]

You’d think so… https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727

(Not saying this is the case for the 24 stock, just mentioning an occasion when it has gone wrong)

Was that a shortfall in the infrastructure data records, or arising from an expansion in the trains' expanded deployment, beyond that used to generate the stock's original planned deployment?

 

[GFE]

The 24 stock uses a new principle of some cars not having wheels/bogies; with them being supported by couplings on the adjacent cars.
As explained in the lecture by an LUL Track Engineer to the PWI (which was on YouTube but now apparently removed), These couplings become the "pivot points" defining the kinematic envelope of the bogieless car, and the existing/established train gauge kinematic envelope modelling tools did not cater for this feature.
Also the TFL explanation of the problem/delay said the problem related to to the positioning of some equipment (and therefore gauging) under the train perhaps getting too close to traction rails or other equipment mounted on the track.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Was that a shortfall in the infrastructure data records, or arising from an expansion in the trains' expanded deployment, beyond that used to generate the stock's original planned deployment?

What happened, apparently, was the SNCF had previously been refused the funding to improve the stations in question.

They did get approval for the new trains.

Lo and behold, it was "discovered" after the trains were built that all those stations needed modifications to allow those trains to run...

That may or may not be true, but it's certainly the story that was circulating at the time, and it's quite believable.

Back in London, it is well documented that the first batch of 1983 Stock had to be returned for adjustment because they were "too wide for the tunnels"; it was a matter of 5mm or so each side and was apparently solved by simply tightening up the bodyshells to draw them in slightly.

 

[Mcq]

In the regrettably withdrawn video lecture by the LUL Track Engineer to the PWI - can anyone confirm that the lecturer said that the clearance tolerance between the fixed tunnel impedimenta and the tube train envelope was 1"?

 

[thomalex]

In this day and age I'm amazed you can't do LIDAR scans to build up detailed models of all the tunnels, stations and track and run simulations to iron out these things before anything is even built

 

[zwk500]

In this day and age I'm amazed you can't do LIDAR scans to build up detailed models of all the tunnels, stations and track and run simulations to iron out these things before anything is even built

They do, but scans only work in straight lines (a curve is broken down into a series of sometimes extremely short straight lines) and dynamic behaviour isn't always exactly as predicted.

 

[Snow1964]

The fact the 2024 stock has been seen being tested at Ealing Common suggests it's not a gauge issue.

The subject was raised at a London Assembly meeting few days ago, but the boss of TfL refused to give the reasons during the meeting with a camera, but offered to give them in private off record, verbally and with no record, afterwards, as he said he knew them.

Rather smacks of a cover up, protecting incompetence, and embarrassment, especially as the reason for not disclosing was apparently not pending legal dispute or contractual dispute.

For clarity, I haven't seen the meeting, just a snippet that was on a news item, so cannot confirm.

 

[BerkshireRails]

In the regrettably withdrawn video lecture by the LUL Track Engineer to the PWI - can anyone confirm that the lecturer said that the clearance tolerance between the fixed tunnel impedimenta and the tube train envelope was 1"?

They say in the PWI video that there was a 1 inch/25mm gap.

 

[Nym]

They say in the PWI video that there was a 1 inch/25mm gap.

PWI videos say a lot of things.

But the spacing between the kinematic envelope of the train and the infrastructure boundary of a tunnel is a lot more than 25mm.

 

[Mcq]

Pleased to hear it

 

[Dstock7080]

38004-48004 now successfully moved from Goole to Ruislip depot.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2025 ==

a look inside Siemens Goole:

 

[Momodou2003]

The 24 stock has left Northfields depot maybe their preparing for live testing on the network.

 

[Mawkie]

The 24 stock has left Northfields depot maybe their preparing for live testing on the network.

Oh yeah I forgot to post. Apparently doing a run through the tunnels tonight. Didn't imagine it would be during traffic hours. (TBH I didn't believe it was happening at all! Lol)

 

[OneTrackMinded]

The 24 stock has left Northfields depot maybe they’re preparing for live testing on the network.

I can’t imagine they would do testing during traffic hours… when you say “left the depot” do you mean it just moved to an outside siding?