The end of the Royal Train

[JamieL]

Delighted to see the end of this - I am no fan of Royalty as the concept just seems bizarre, outdated and an expensive irrelevance in the 21st century. Just my view though, I am sure others disagree.

More broadly though, for a system that is so rigorously timetabled and so many areas operating at capacity, the practicalities of running the Royal train must be significant. I am hardly surprised it is going.

 

[NickBucks]

HM The King is getting a little old now for trysts in remote sidings me thinks.

 

[Magdalia]

Was this necessary? The Derby is run in June

Yes. In those days the Derby was usually on the first Wednesday in June, though sometimes it was in the last week of May. Late May/early June could be quite cold, including frosts, though less likely now than in the steam heat era.

I am pretty sure that there was at least one occasion when the Class 31 broke down on the Tattenham Corner branch with HM on board. One was not amused.

This is not correct. You are getting confused with the loco failure on a Liverpool Street-Kings Lynn train in January 1961, with a loco that was only a few weeks old.

 

[Anonymous10]

I hope the consist is displayed together and not separated into individual coaches. But where to put it? You would need to kick a lot of stuff out of York to make room for it. Is there a station that could spare a 9-car platform anywhere? How about Waterloo International?

Scarborough?

 

[WesternLancer]

Delighted to see the end of this - I am no fan of Royalty as the concept just seems bizarre, outdated and an expensive irrelevance in the 21st century. Just my view though, I am sure others disagree.

I've always respected this point of view - but I think it's an argument to abolish a royal head of state. But once you have such a role - as we do with no likelihood of it's abolition any time soon IMHO - I think you should do it properly - which includes having 'all the trimmings'

 

[thejuggler]

There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors here as the total cost of maintaining the Royal Train isn’t mentioned anywhere nor is the source of the funds for that. All that is quoted in a BBC article is a sample two day journey:

If that were a two day railtour for 400 passengers it would only need £50 per person per day to break even. Bargain!

Royal train to be cut in Palace cost-saving measure

The announcement has come alongside the annual publication of royal finances.

www.bbc.co.uk

Total annual cost was mentioned on ITV About £400,000 a year for stabling, maintenance etc etc.

https://www.itv.com/news/2025-06-30/king-charles-decides-its-the-end-of-the-line-for-the-royal-train

 

[WesternLancer]

Total annual cost was mentioned on ITV About £400,000 a year for stabling, maintenance etc etc.

https://www.itv.com/news/2025-06-30/king-charles-decides-its-the-end-of-the-line-for-the-royal-train

But you have to wonder what steps taken to recue these costs - I'm sure some are - but depends how far you want to go - ref the stabling - I'm sure a heritage line would build a secure shed to store it in and charge competitively for the track space etc. BR would have absorbed those costs

If it moves to helicopters I suspect the RAF absorbs the costs in some way for the helicopters being maintained / stored on a secure RAF base (tho no doubt a re-charge to the Royal family for some of that would be made - but would it be the full share of the costs? probably not)

I suspect it just depends on how you cost / value marginal space that you might not otherwise use for anything else

These sorts of figures are just finger in the air numbers in my view.

 

[WolvertonWorks]

Anyone spotted Belmond in the Wolverton area?

I was wondering whether St Modwen had asked too much for the annual (I assume) lease on the train shed so they could go ahead with more of their planned re-development of the site - maybe Belmond have offered a better price for use of it

I'm fairly sure it does have a shed at Wolverton but it does also stable overnight in the open air when out and about.

Yes, when the eastern end of The Works was redeveloped some years ago now a shiny new shed, surrounded by floodlights and lots of security fencing and wire, was built at the other end of the Works site, inside the perimeter fence and the old brick shed turned into housing.

So much of the Works site has been left to rot, the roof of the shed by Tesco's car park is falling in and there's nothing visible from the road or canal towpath to show St Modwen have built the new facilities the said they'd do so that the current operator of the maintenance operation on the site could expand.

My joking comment about Belmond aside I wonder if the relinquished royal train shed will now become new premises for Gemini (I think they are the current operators on the site).

The whole thing is a sad day for railway history with the Works opening in 1838 and being the longest running railway works in the world currently and the Royal Train being stabled here since 1842.

Phil Marsh's Royal Train website has a gallery of images from over the years: https://www.royaltrain.co.uk/gallery.html

 

[31160]

I am pretty sure that there was at least one occasion when the Class 31 broke down on the Tattenham Corner branch with HM on board. One was not amused.

I'm sure a ex works SF 47 broke down somewhere in Anglia and had to be replaced with a filthy 47572,I'm sure moving is better than cleanliness anyway

 

[357]

I am very happy about this and I thought more members here would be celebrating this occasion.

This announcement marks the removal of what is in basically an open access operation. Obviously now, all of those people who would travel on this train will buy full price tickets on LNER and other state operated railways... Yippee!!

 

[MadCommuter]

I think I read something that said the maintenance contract ends in 2027. So that will be why that year has been chosen.

 

[WesternLancer]

I was wondering whether St Modwen had asked too much for the annual (I assume) lease on the train shed so they could go ahead with more of their planned re-development of the site - maybe Belmond have offered a better price for use of it

Yes, when the eastern end of The Works was redeveloped some years ago now a shiny new shed, surrounded by floodlights and lots of security fencing and wire, was built at the other end of the Works site, inside the perimeter fence and the old brick shed turned into housing.

So much of the Works site has been left to rot, the roof of the shed by Tesco's car park is falling in and there's nothing visible from the road or canal towpath to show St Modwen have built the new facilities the said they'd do so that the current operator of the maintenance operation on the site could expand.

My joking comment about Belmond aside I wonder if the relinquished royal train shed will now become new premises for Gemini (I think they are the current operators on the site).

The whole thing is a sad day for railway history with the Works opening in 1838 and being the longest running railway works in the world currently and the Royal Train being stabled here since 1842.

Phil Marsh's Royal Train website has a gallery of images from over the years: https://www.royaltrain.co.uk/gallery.html

Thanks for posting this interesting info and that link - I agree with your analysis

 

[Spartacus]

Understandable if it's been barely used over the last couple of years, though it was quite intensively being used at one point, and as a casual observer it seems William & Catherine seemed to use it quite a lot before her illness, I wonder how much that and her partaking in fewer Royal duties as a result have impacted the usage?

As for planning it, it's mostly planned as per a regular charter train, it used to be a dedicated person in the charters team who planned it, but I don't know about recently. It even has it's own delay manager code, which I happened to have to use not too long ago, won't be used that much more for the 'special train', though I think it can still be used for military trains running under similar 'ghost schedule' restrictions.

 

[Annetts key]

At the end of the day, any costs quoted are going to be misleading, as a significant amount is just moving government money around from one place to another. And any costs are a drop in the ocean compared to the government budget or compared to the cost of interest on the debt of Network Rail.

This looks like it may be a news story that is a reaction to maybe another current news story?

Similarly how often it has been used recently is also misleading. The last five years have been far from normal, what with COVID19 and the illness within the Royal family.

 

[mpthomson]

They should have used it much more.

They obviously didn't want or need to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2025 ==

At the end of the day, any costs quoted are going to be misleading, as a significant amount is just moving government money around from one place to another. And any costs are a drop in the ocean compared to the government budget or compared to the cost of interest on the debt of Network Rail.

This looks like it may be a news story that is a reaction to maybe another current news story?

Similarly how often it has been used recently is also misleading. The last five years have been far from normal, what with COVID19 and the illness within the Royal family.

Its related to the announcement of the Sovereign Grant for the year, which has dropped significantly in terms of %age of the Duchy Estates revenue from25% to 12%. However the dramatically increased estate revenues mean that the actual money value of the grant has increased slightly. The rest of the estates revenue goes directly to the Treasury. This excludes the payments for repairs to Buck House, which are an extra for the next two years until the work concludes.

 

[QueensCurve]

BBC reporting Royal Train to be decommissioned https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce377nr5r43o That's sad news.

Really sad news.

 

[DarloRich]

Really sad news.

may I ask why you feel that?

 

[Roast Veg]

Maybe a 3 coach 800 with beds etc to be attached to existing services and detached at HM’s destination (or near to). No additional paths or drivers (or a lot less than previously).

That would obviously not work in the Southern region. It also wouldn't even have the title of the first or only royal multiple unit, since the Emperor of Japan has the capacity to use the E655 series. How often is that MU used for royal excursions?

 

[31160]

So even less foe the skips to do, will DB sell off the fleet? Even then who would want them

 

[dangie]

I reckon that £44,000 is just the direct railway costs. Additionally there are both the costs allocated to each journey, of which security weighs heavily and is often likely to be heavier than with other means of transport….

Am I correct in saying that wherever the Royal Train travelled, stations it passed through and bridges it passed under/over, were manned by police?

 

[Harpo]

As for planning it, it's mostly planned as per a regular charter train, it used to be a dedicated person in the charters team who planned it, but I don't know about recently.

Under BR, anything else that needed to be moved to make it fit, was. Sometimes quite substantially. Anyone involved in planning or running ‘the special train’ had to have security clearance.

 

[Norm_D_Ploom]

Shame. Another part of our heritage gone.

 

[800001]

Am I correct in saying that wherever the Royal Train travelled, stations it passed through and bridges it passed under/over, were manned by police?

No, not true for bridges etc.
years ago it was ecs through Carlisle and several police including dogs came into platform minutes before it called for a crew change, once train left, the police left.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Under BR, anything else that needed to be moved to make it fit, was. Sometimes quite substantially. Anyone involved in planning or running ‘the special train’ had to have security clearance.

Not quite so sure on that , but certainly special train notices were released only to nominated persons , and had to be returned. Special arrangements made to secure freight trains etc as appropriate. Lots of uncosted plans to (a) keep an eye on security especially on station platforms and of course stand-by arrangements as required for staff , including train fitters etc "just in case" . (when I was at Watford as Ops Manager , I had rolling stock fitters "handy" at Euston , Watford , MK and Northampton - and that was just for a journey to Long Buckby.

Many people were generally pleased to be involved , even in passing. Some staff treasured the personal issue of "Royal Train Ties" - they were not given out very often.

 

[Harpo]

Not quite so sure on that

I could have been clearer! It was those in advanced planning that usually had clearance. On the day was a lot of faff in giving people just enough info for their bit, such as boxes. As always, I’d assume there were regional variations!

 

[Falcon1200]

but certainly special train notices were released only to nominated persons , and had to be returned

Indeed, and whenever I collected the notices after the Special Train had run there was always (at least) one wag who said 'Oh, I threw mine away', before of course producing it.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I could have been clearer! It was those in advanced planning that usually had clearance. On the day was a lot of faff in giving people just enough info for their bit, such as boxes. As always, I’d assume there were regional variations!

That sounds about right ! - certainly there would be quite a lot of "supervision" around on such occassions.

 

[Deepgreen]

Yes, plenty of photos of her on a GN train at King's Lynn.

(Photo of Queen and Prince Philip sitting in first class on a train with Great Norhtern branded headrests.)

"Quick Philip, the inspector's coming - pretend you don't speak English and didn't realise we were in first class..."

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jul 2025 ==

Delighted to see the end of this - I am no fan of Royalty as the concept just seems bizarre, outdated and an expensive irrelevance in the 21st century. Just my view though, I am sure others disagree.

More broadly though, for a system that is so rigorously timetabled and so many areas operating at capacity, the practicalities of running the Royal train must be significant. I am hardly surprised it is going.

Leaving everything else aside, if the railway can't accommodate an occasional special (like the Royal Train) then it is not fit for purpose.

 

[JamieL]

Leaving everything else aside, if the railway can't accommodate an occasional special (like the Royal Train) then it is not fit for pupurpose.

It's a fair point, although I suppose that is one of the reasons why HS2 was/is being built.

 

[fgwrich]

Am I correct in saying that wherever the Royal Train travelled, stations it passed through and bridges it passed under/over, were manned by police?

No, not true for bridges etc.
years ago it was ecs through Carlisle and several police including dogs came into platform minutes before it called for a crew change, once train left, the police left.

Pretty much this. If the train (either ECS or on duty) were to have an extended dwell, then we would do a sweep of the platforms and make sure it was appropriately guarded, but when travelling it is largely treated as any other special service. It has its own BTP officers on board along with the appropriate Royal Protection teams.

If anything, the Flying Scotsman (money pit) is probably more Police resource hungry!