Leeds station improvement updates

[takno]

The biggest problem with the PUDO, aside from the rush caused by London trains (if you avoid these peaks its nowhere near as bad) is Uber drivers waiting in the drop off area for ages, and often refusing to take any jobs unless it's a premium ride. There needs to be enforcement about the waiting times.

If only there was some way to order things so that the first person in the queue was allocated to the first available taxi, without the need for a complicated app and bidding system.

 

[YorksLad12]

After managing to avoid the pick up area at the station for quite a few years (last time it took me 30 minutes to queue due to roadworks) I had reason to do so last week.

It is still a mess and I can't see it ever getting better. So confusing over where you can and can't stop to pick up and exiting is even more confusing, but after looking at Google Earth I think I know why.

The drop off area in what was the old car park circulates the wrong way for the majority of traffic dropping off, why it operates anticlockwise in a country with RHD vehicles is a mystery.

Originally, cars using the drop-off/pick-up area could end up crossing paths with vehicles trying to enter the short stay area. They'd either have to wait for a gap or drive over the raised bit of tarmac that passes for a roundabout to exit. So I get the reasoning for the reversal; trouble is, they've charged that area several times over the last five years, none of which seem to have really helped. Drivers just do what they want now. The newly fenced-off area has notices saying not to park in the old car park entrances and to keep the area free fr access. Of course, drivers have been waiting there today...

I expect it's because if it operated clockwise then the queue would lead to even more people dropped off closer to the wetherspoons entrance than they already do, causing more traffic snarlups.

The biggest problem with the PUDO, aside from the rush caused by London trains (if you avoid these peaks its nowhere near as bad) is Uber drivers waiting in the drop off area for ages, and often refusing to take any jobs unless it's a premium ride. There needs to be enforcement about the waiting times.

I don't think there's any enforcement at any time now, unless it's done through ANPR. Once their 20 minutes are up they leave and re-enter anyway. Twice in the past 12 months I've seen people on traffic duty. Even the taxis person seems to have gone. Ubers and other PHVs I think are supposed to use the multi-storey. Leeds is bad for clear signage, which is why I see people exiting the multi-storey and turning left to try and leave the station (you can't do that; if the gated car parks weren't there you'd end up on the track). Meanwhile, there's a surface car park going spare with the gates now closed behind the barriers.

 

[Ben427]

Originally, cars using the drop-off/pick-up area could end up crossing paths with vehicles trying to enter the short stay area. They'd either have to wait for a gap or drive over the raised bit of tarmac that passes for a roundabout to exit. So I get the reasoning for the reversal; trouble is, they've charged that area several times over the last five years, none of which seem to have really helped. Drivers just do what they want now. The newly fenced-off area has notices saying not to park in the old car park entrances and to keep the area free fr access. Of course, drivers have been waiting there today...


I don't think there's any enforcement at any time now, unless it's done through ANPR. Once their 20 minutes are up they leave and re-enter anyway. Twice in the past 12 months I've seen people on traffic duty. Even the taxis person seems to have gone. Ubers and other PHVs I think are supposed to use the multi-storey. Leeds is bad for clear signage, which is why I see people exiting the multi-storey and turning left to try and leave the station (you can't do that; if the gated car parks weren't there you'd end up on the track). Meanwhile, there's a surface car park going spare with the gates now closed behind the barriers.

Ubers and PHEV use the pick up and drop off in the same area as the taxis now

 

[skyhigh]

Even the taxis person seems to have gone.

No, still there. They don't often leave their hut though.

 

[Iskra]

Branch Line Society News 1471 released this evening has more details on the P17 works, as much as I am glad about this improvement and that it starts this year, £40m does seem an awful lot for (an admittedly complex) 143m platform extension:

BLS Home Page

UK organisation established in 1955 for the study of railway infrastructure and history of networks

www.branchline.uk

A brief summary for accessibility purposes:

Work to start on P17 at end of 2025. Additional length of 143 metres. Northern would like to run 4 carriage trains on the Sheffield semi-fast services. Cost £40m

At that price tag could an alternative solution have been implemented for less cost?

 

[Killingworth]

Branch Line Society News 1471 released this evening has more details on the P17 works, as much as I am glad about this improvement and that it starts this year, £40m does seem an awful lot for (an admittedly complex) 143m platform extension:

View attachment 179277

BLS Home Page

UK organisation established in 1955 for the study of railway infrastructure and history of networks

www.branchline.uk

A brief summary for accessibility purposes:



At that price tag could an alternative solution have been implemented for less cost?

From the description I heard at the consultation in March the work is rather more complex than just lengthening the platform. The pedestrian access bridges, widening and lengthening the platforms, slewing tracks, the overhead wiring including further work on approaches to the station. What was missing at the consultation was maps and diagrams.

Northern will be able to use 2, 3 or 4 car trains within the 6 car capacity of the extended platform

 

[duffield]

Branch Line Society News 1471 released this evening has more details on the P17 works, as much as I am glad about this improvement and that it starts this year, £40m does seem an awful lot for (an admittedly complex) 143m platform extension:

View attachment 179277

BLS Home Page

UK organisation established in 1955 for the study of railway infrastructure and history of networks

www.branchline.uk

A brief summary for accessibility purposes:



At that price tag could an alternative solution have been implemented for less cost?

References on the BLS site which read "extend platform 17 by 143m" should actually read "extend platform 17 to 143m".

Edit: So the diagram below shows clearly it will be extended by 38m to 143m (but the quoted text once again implies incorrectly it is be extended by 143m).

 

[Killingworth]

The consultation information https://www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk/leeds-platform17 includes the following

Our proposals aim to:

• Extend platform 17 length by at least 47% (143 metres).

Currently, platform 17 can accommodate two trains with up to two carriages each. This extension will allow trains with more than 50% further seats to use this platform.

• Increase the width of the platform to 3.3 metres for most of the platform, with the last 17 metres at least 2.8 metres wide.

This will help ease crowding on the platform and allow wheelchair access ramps to be more easily positioned when wheelchair users board or alight from a train at this platform.

• Move the stairs, escalators and lift to a more central position on platform 16 to improve access and passenger flow through platforms 16 and 17.

 

[YorksLad12]

I think we talked earlier that it’s not just a platform extension, but also slewing the track to make it deeper (and safer). So there’s the cost of the track, points and signalling to include. Okay, you could build the new station at Haxby for less, but…

Also, the new (relocated) lift and wider circulation area on the footbridge will cost a bit.

 

[Mugby]

Will 17 be out of use for the entire duration of the works? If so, how difficult will it be to accomodate Hallam services (4 tph) elsewhere?

 

[Iskra]

Thanks all for the clarification!

Will 17 be out of use for the entire duration of the works? If so, how difficult will it be to accomodate Hallam services (4 tph) elsewhere?

Presumably due to the scale of the works, there could be knock-on implications for P16 too.

 

[YorksLad12]

Will 17 be out of use for the entire duration of the works? If so, how difficult will it be to accomodate Hallam services (4 tph) elsewhere?

Presumably due to the scale of the works, there could be knock-on implications for P16 too.

I’d imagine that they’d do the track work first. That could be done in a Christmas closure. If they time it with TRU work, when there would be fewer services towards Mirfield/Huddersfield, you could decant everything to platforms 13 and 16.

Or, reopen the Leeds (Whitehall) platform

 

[quantinghome]

I think we talked earlier that it’s not just a platform extension, but also slewing the track to make it deeper (and safer). So there’s the cost of the track, points and signalling to include. Okay, you could build the new station at Haxby for less, but…

Also, the new (relocated) lift and wider circulation area on the footbridge will cost a bit.

Exactly, the actual physical work to extend the platform is a very small proportion of the overall cost. It's the trackwork and measure to address passenger circulation problems which will be the main cost.

 

[jmh59]

We used the station a couple of weeks ago, out then back. We got a lift in and the drop off is still madness with the exiting traffic having to cross the queue trying to get in. Had no option but to stop in the middle lane and let us get bags out etc. but everyone was patient. Coming back we were going to use an Uber but last time I used the app to book by the time we'd walked to the car park we got charged a £1 waiting fee as the car was presumably already there. Lesson learned anyway. This time we caught a bus and it was rather nice to find the No. 19 stops right outside (once we found the stop anyway), so not all bad.

 

[Iskra]

It looks like they’re preparing to replace the escalator on the main bridge closest to the low number platforms. It’s fully covered by construction hoardings and netting now.

 

[Minnietheminx]

It looks like they’re preparing to replace the escalator on the main bridge closest to the low number platforms. It’s fully covered by construction hoardings and netting now.

Given how often the escalator down from the bridge has been out of action over the past few years, it's long overdue. Once that's done, maybe the lifts could get some attention.

 

[Killingworth]

Back in March some were making a suggestion that work on Platforms 16/17 might start in 2025. That was always too optimistic.

The full 104 page Leeds Rail Station Platform 17 extension Engagement outcome report was published today, see; https://ehq-production-europe.s3.eu...11040c09d6df88eb37ee2a710b4aea38a9219ab02d35d

There's a lot there, a great deal of which is irrelevant except for this evasive paragraph;

5. Next steps
This engagement outcome report will be considered by the project team and submitted to support the FBC. It will also be presented to the Leeds Station Board to identify any other issues
at Leeds Station that may need addressing. The next stage in the assurance framework is submission of a FBC later this year. Should the scheme be approved, construction is expected to take place between late 2026 - 2027.

It's a long way from the done deal some were suggesting at the time of the consultation - surprise, surprise!

 

[YorksLad12]

Given how often the escalator down from the bridge has been out of action over the past few years, it's long overdue. Once that's done, maybe the lifts could get some attention.

Meant to say on Monday, it’s now working. Or it was on Monday, it might have broken down again by now

 

[ChrisC]

Back in March some were making a suggestion that work on Platforms 16/17 might start in 2025. That was always too optimistic.

The full 104 page Leeds Rail Station Platform 17 extension Engagement outcome report was published today, see; https://ehq-production-europe.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/7effa6cfe21e3a0881c8315b2ae7aa5823eb57a3/original/1750175116/6e98171938acae6cba40d70bb12d9ede_Platform 17 Extension Outcome Report.pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIA4KKNQAKIJHZMYNPA/20250619/eu-west-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20250619T144449Z&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=bd5af23955d4949c70d11040c09d6df88eb37ee2a710b4aea38a9219ab02d35d

There's a lot there, a great deal of which is irrelevant except for this evasive paragraph;

It's a long way from the done deal some were suggesting at the time of the consultation - surprise, surprise!

Which could very well mean that the important Leeds-Sheffield-Nottingham route will remain as inadequate 2 carriage trains for around another 3 years at least.

 

[Adam0984]

There's not enough trains to make the Nottingham and Lincolns longer, unless some additional cast off units come our way

 

[Iskra]

There's not enough trains to make the Nottingham and Lincolns longer, unless some additional cast off units come our way

That can’t be entirely true; they have somehow found new rolling stock to run an entirely new Sheffield-Leeds via Wakefield Westgate train from December. I suspect this might be at the expense of the stopper via Moorthorpe being permanently two carriages, rather than sometimes being 4 currently.

Meant to say on Monday, it’s now working. Or it was on Monday, it might have broken down again by now

It was 2x escalators in the South Entrances turn to fail for my last week of commuting before I went on holiday on the 6th. And these are presumably much newer so don’t have the excuse of old age. The ones on the main overbridge are at least being replaced currently so hopefully the new design is more reliable.

 

[Adam0984]

That can’t be entirely true; they have somehow found new rolling stock to run an entirely new Sheffield-Leeds via Wakefield Westgate train from December. I suspect this might be at the expense of the stopper via Moorthorpe being permanently two carriages, rather than sometimes being 4 currently.

Possibly banking on some additional units coming our way but we struggle to cover what's on the current timetable at times never mind additional services

 

[Killingworth]

Possibly banking on some additional units coming our way but we struggle to cover what's on the current timetable at times never mind additional services

Trying to balance positives and negatives, maybe Northern will be allowed to have more trains by the 2030s when the extended platform mght be available.

As it is there is precious little provision for significant passenger number growth over the next 5 years, let alone 25, be it on trains or platforms. 5-10% pa isn't an unrealistic aim or expectation with a growing population.

 

[YorksLad12]

Which could very well mean that the important Leeds-Sheffield-Nottingham route will remain as inadequate 2 carriage trains for around another 3 years at least.

That can’t be entirely true; they have somehow found new rolling stock to run an entirely new Sheffield-Leeds via Wakefield Westgate train from December. I suspect this might be at the expense of the stopper via Moorthorpe being permanently two carriages, rather than sometimes being 4 currently.

You'd hope the new service would take some of the Leeds-Sheffield passengers from the semi-fasts. And they do have the new 3- and 4-car procurement going through.

It was 2x escalators in the South Entrances turn to fail for my last week of commuting before I went on holiday on the 6th. And these are presumably much newer so don’t have the excuse of old age. The ones on the main overbridge are at least being replaced currently so hopefully the new design is more reliable.

Newer, but not standard. I think it's the left-hand pair that have a higher pitch than the recommended maximum - the only way to fit the escalators into the footprint.

 

[quantinghome]

Which could very well mean that the important Leeds-Sheffield-Nottingham route will remain as inadequate 2 carriage trains for around another 3 years at least.

That can’t be entirely true; they have somehow found new rolling stock to run an entirely new Sheffield-Leeds via Wakefield Westgate train from December.

It would be better for the new fast Leeds-Sheffield service to take over Nottingham duties. In fact wasn't this the Northern Connect plan?

Moderator note: Discussion regarding the new Leeds-Sheffield service has been moved to the following thread:

How should the additional Leeds - Sheffield Northern service be operated?

I would hope that these improvements would in some way facilitate a half hourly service between Leeds and Normanton (not holding my breath though).

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[jmh59]

Just received this from Leeds city council:

"Network Rail introduce new waiting times at Princes Square​

Network Rail is introducing a new system for the drop-off and pick-up zone on Princes Square at the back of Leeds City Station.

From 1 July, drivers will have 10 minutes' free waiting time within the drop-off zone, which will be monitored with automatic number plate recognition cameras. Those wishing to park for more than 10 minutes can use the multi-storey car park.

Blue Badge holders get 30 minutes of free waiting time when parked in an accessible bay and clearly displaying a Blue Badge.

Failure to depart within the time limit will result in a £100 parking charge, which will reduce to £60 if paid within 14 days.

There is no parking pick-up or drop-off on the main entrance and through road known as Princes Square. This is a no parking roadway to assist with the free flow of traffic and for Health and Safety purposes." (source: Connecting Leeds newsletter - June 2025 [by email])

 

[YorksLad12]

Just received this from Leeds city council:

Network Rail introduce new waiting times at Princes Square​

Network Rail is introducing a new system for the drop-off and pick-up zone on Princes Square at the back of Leeds City Station.

From 1 July, drivers will have 10 minutes' free waiting time within the drop-off zone, which will be monitored with automatic number plate recognition cameras. Those wishing to park for more than 10 minutes can use the multi-storey car park.

Blue Badge holders get 30 minutes of free waiting time when parked in an accessible bay and clearly displaying a Blue Badge.

Failure to depart within the time limit will result in a £100 parking charge, which will reduce to £60 if paid within 14 days.

There is no parking pick-up or drop-off on the main entrance and through road known as Princes Square. This is a no parking roadway to assist with the free flow of traffic and for Health and Safety purposes.

Hallelujah. Halle-e-u-u-l-i-a (as a Gregorian chant). I've been bleating on about this for yonks.

However; it's the PHVs that exit and re-enter, so there would have to be a "No return within two hours"-style restriction as well. It won't stop the through lane being used for pick-ups and drop-offs; it might not even stop the accessible bays being straddled by vehicles. Hopefully they can spring for the cash to mark out the taxi waiting area, assuming they're not affected by the new restrictions on Princess Square road. Fingers crossed for them!

I do wonder what the original plan was with the Bradford to Nottingham trains.

There wasn't a plan, beyond suggesting lots of things that would impress the people judging the bids.

 

[johntea]

Hallelujah. Halle-e-u-u-l-i-a (as a Gregorian chant). I've been bleating on about this for yonks.

However; it's the PHVs that exit and re-enter, so there would have to be a "No return within two hours"-style restriction as well. It won't stop the through lane being used for pick-ups and drop-offs; it might not even stop the accessible bays being straddled by vehicles. Hopefully they can spring for the cash to mark out the taxi waiting area, assuming they're not affected by the new restrictions on Princess Square road. Fingers crossed for them!


There wasn't a plan, beyond suggesting lots of things that would impress the people judging the bids.

I've always found it far easier just to walk to somewhere on Briggate or similar if I want a taxi rather than mess about with the absolute chaos that is the back of Leeds station

 

[YorksLad12]

One thing that occurred to me this morning when I went over there to pick up a prescription is that the multi-storey car park is regularly full by mid-morning on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. Unless they're also planning on decanting some of the reserved parking to the currently unused surface car park, it's going to be difficult to find a spot to park up... at which point people will just wait up anywhere that looks free. Much as they do now, and they were doing this morning. It will be interesting to see how the road parking/waiting is enforced, given that there are notices in place already at some points.

 

[Tractor37]

That can’t be entirely true; they have somehow found new rolling stock to run an entirely new Sheffield-Leeds via Wakefield Westgate train from December. I suspect this might be at the expense of the stopper via Moorthorpe being permanently two carriages, rather than sometimes being 4 currently.

Talking to a fellow Leeds driver yesterday. The Leeds-Westgate-Sheffield services staring in December will be operated with class 170’s.