McGill’s Midland Bluebird

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Are both Bright Bus Tours being converted to Big Bus Tours, or is this going to be an extra option in running in Edinburgh?

Bright Bus Tours is being franchised as Big Bus Tours.

Not sure what the plan is with the AIRX, if any plan at all.

 

[Stan Drews]

Bright Bus Tours is being franchised as Big Bus Tours.

Not sure what the plan is with the AIRX, if any plan at all.

The Airport Express service isn’t affected by the Bright Bus Tours becoming part of the Big Bus brand.

 

[Resuwen]

Quite frustrating to see the two Edinburgh Council tender services often run with Bright Bus Airport vehicles, with the front emblazoned with fares which are not the price of those routes. Looks shoddy and potentially puts passengers off.

 

[Stan Drews]

Quite frustrating to see the two Edinburgh Council tender services often run with Bright Bus Airport vehicles, with the front emblazoned with fares which are not the price of those routes. Looks shoddy and potentially puts passengers off.

Yes, I’m sure the frustration amongst Edinburgh citizens is at fever pitch!!
Passenger numbers on the 60 must plummet when an Airport Express bus turns up, but at least they know how to get to the airport easily from Haymarket.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Quite frustrating to see the two Edinburgh Council tender services often run with Bright Bus Airport vehicles, with the front emblazoned with fares which are not the price of those routes. Looks shoddy and potentially puts passengers off.

Yes, I’m sure the frustration amongst Edinburgh citizens is at fever pitch!!
Passenger numbers on the 60 must plummet when an Airport Express bus turns up, but at least they know how to get to the airport easily from Haymarket.

I personally have never been a fan of Midland Bluebird operating the 13 & 60 as while most of the passengers on these route have free bus travel, I would think it's a better idea for Lothian to operate these due to the fact that the day tickets offer more for their money if these 2 where part of the Lothian network, along with the other inconvenience of using Bright Bus Vehicles on these routes aswell.

 

[stevenedin]

I personally have never been a fan of Midland Bluebird operating the 13 & 60 as while most of the passengers on these route have free bus travel, I would think it's a better idea for Lothian to operate these due to the fact that the day tickets offer more for their money if these 2 where part of the Lothian network, along with the other inconvenience of using Bright Bus Vehicles on these routes aswell.

The issue with Lothian having a monopoly is that we see cut backs. You only have to look at what happened in West Lothian when they interfered there and now parts of East Lothian too.

 

[Stan Drews]

I personally have never been a fan of Midland Bluebird operating the 13 & 60 as while most of the passengers on these route have free bus travel, I would think it's a better idea for Lothian to operate these due to the fact that the day tickets offer more for their money if these 2 where part of the Lothian network, along with the other inconvenience of using Bright Bus Vehicles on these routes aswell.

Welcome to the world of local authority tendering.
Is it just Midland Bluebird you’re not a fan of, or does your dislike of non-Lothian operators extend to other operators too?

 

[Resuwen]

I’m not a fan of operators who indulge in sloppy presentation.

 

[buslad1988]

I’m not a fan of operators who indulge in sloppy presentation.

To be fair you’ll be hard pushed to find an operator anywhere who isn’t sloppy with presentation in some way, shape or form! Sometimes expectations can be a little too high - on a tendered service they’re lucky to have a bus at all, so I’m sure they’re not fussed with the colour.

 

[danielhogg2005]

Welcome to the world of local authority tendering.
Is it just Midland Bluebird you’re not a fan of, or does your dislike of non-Lothian operators extend to other operators too?

It does not, I for one am impressed at how Midland Bluebird has improved from First such as with the new electrics I used on the 1 today, I only think that Lothian would be able to offer more usability from an Edinburgh day ticket than the Midland Bluebird one in the case of the 13 & 60.

 

[JKP]

It does not, I for one am impressed at how Midland Bluebird has improved from First such as with the new electrics I used on the 1 today, I only think that Lothian would be able to offer more usability from an Edinburgh day ticket than the Midland Bluebird one in the case of the 13 & 60.

In that case Lothian need to put in a lower tender price but suspect that the economics do not work for them.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

In that case Lothian need to put in a lower tender price but suspect that the economics do not work for them.

Given the fact Lothian have shown little interest in the 13 for nearly 20 years, I think that speaks volumes of their intentions. It should be stated they ran the route down from about 2007.

I do think the consistent use of Bright Bus vehicles on the 13 and 60 is pretty poor to be honest. Once in a while fair enough but at the moment there’s only 2 Streetlites allocated to Livingston and this has been going on consistently for weeks now. Therefore assuming they’re both working at least one Enviro300 will make it onto these routes, often 2 and sometimes 3. All vehicles of which are not exactly in a great condition, especially internally. I’d like to think with the Yutong’s starting and Dundee Eclipse2’s moving in that it would allow for a couple of buses to head to Livingston. It would be nice to see the Enviro200’s move across for this work. Vehicles in my opinion far more suited than the knackered ex First stuff. It’s a shame but predictably the 13 does seem to be poorer now than how Edinburgh Coach Lines had it, who in my opinion were better than Lothian ever were at it.

Yes, I’m sure the frustration amongst Edinburgh citizens is at fever pitch!!
Passenger numbers on the 60 must plummet when an Airport Express bus turns up, but at least they know how to get to the airport easily from Haymarket.

It’d be difficult for numbers to plummet if the numbers are virtually none in the first place. I’ve never seen a 60 with more than 4 people onboard. I should state that irrespective of operator, this problem would have happened. Perhaps Lothian would have got loadings up slightly, but far below any justification to have a 60.

McGill’s have definitely benefited from some dodgy council decisions to have a tender for a 60 in the first place. Their win at the taxpayers expense.

 

[DunsBus]

It does not, I for one am impressed at how Midland Bluebird has improved from First such as with the new electrics I used on the 1 today, I only think that Lothian would be able to offer more usability from an Edinburgh day ticket than the Midland Bluebird one in the case of the 13 & 60.

Nothing new regarding tickets. From deregulation day in October 1986 to the end of July 1989, Eastern Scottish ran evening and Sunday journeys on several services that were ran commercially by LRT (as Lothian then was) during the day, rendering Ridacards invalid on these journeys.

 

[overthewater]

There seems to be complete storm in a tea cup in this thread. local passengers Im sure are used to the bright orange buses. The taxpayers for certain area wanted that bus put back on so as long as the costs are not over the top what is the problem.

 

[VioletEclipse]

I personally have never been a fan of Midland Bluebird operating the 13 & 60 as while most of the passengers on these route have free bus travel, I would think it's a better idea for Lothian to operate these due to the fact that the day tickets offer more for their money if these 2 where part of the Lothian network, along with the other inconvenience of using Bright Bus Vehicles on these routes aswell.

I think that the issue is partly due to the lack of ticket-interoperability, if there was a city or region wide ticketing system which worked on every bus and tram and therefore you didn't need to worry about different tickets for different operators.
And I realise that for the 13 and 60 the prices aren't different and most folk who don't have free travel pay with card, but the lack of familiarity might but people off as they think there could well be a more expensive ticket or such, and also that they don't share an app and most folk in Edinburgh likely don't have the midland bluebird app.

 

[smsm1]

I think that the issue is partly due to the lack of ticket-interoperability, if there was a city or region wide ticketing system which worked on every bus and tram and therefore you didn't need to worry about different tickets for different operators.
And I realise that for the 13 and 60 the prices aren't different and most folk who don't have free travel pay with card, but the lack of familiarity might but people off as they think there could well be a more expensive ticket or such, and also that they don't share an app and most folk in Edinburgh likely don't have the midland bluebird app.

Yes, I suspect the lack of cross operator ticketing as standard is a barrier to getting more people on to public transport.

 

[markymark2000]

Yes, I suspect the lack of cross operator ticketing as standard is a barrier to getting more people on to public transport.

There is multi operator ticketing with the One-Ticket though it seems to be extremely poorly advertised and as with most multi operator tickets, McGills don't want anyone to know it exists. https://www.one-ticket.co.uk/learn-more/participating-operators

 

[scosutsut]

There is multi operator ticketing with the One-Ticket though it seems to be extremely poorly advertised and as with most multi operator tickets, McGills don't want anyone to know it exists. https://www.one-ticket.co.uk/learn-more/participating-operators

To be fair to McGills, I don't think I've ever seen an operator publicise it.

In fact I've not seen any cross ticketing advertised by any operator since the 90s in Glasgow when Zonecard flag stickers were commonly seen on front windshields.

 

[stevenedin]

There are some buses (Lothian and also First when they operated in the east) that have it advertised within the buses on the ceiling as an advertising poster.

 

[JKP]

There is multi operator ticketing with the One-Ticket though it seems to be extremely poorly advertised and as with most multi operator tickets, McGills don't want anyone to know it exists. https://www.one-ticket.co.uk/learn-more/participating-operators

And the list of participating operators is well out of date. Barc Coach Services bus routes and BusKer’s were taken over by Borders Buses before Covid, Travelsure finished end of 2023 and Alexander Wait is also defunct.

 

[overthewater]

And the list of participating operators is well out of date. Barc Coach Services bus routes and BusKer’s were taken over by Borders Buses before Covid, Travelsure finished end of 2023 and Alexander Wait is also defunct.

Blue bus has been gone for six years, SD travel no longer has 7, 11/12, and 449, Stagecoach Strathtay - They dropped the 77 and 77B a few years ago aswell. Why should a bus company promote this awful product when One ticket can't be "A****"

 

[markymark2000]

And the list of participating operators is well out of date. Barc Coach Services bus routes and BusKer’s were taken over by Borders Buses before Covid, Travelsure finished end of 2023 and Alexander Wait is also defunct.

One Ticket is poorly advertised and granted they don't help themselves by not keeping their website up to date, but the point being that multi operator ticketing does exist.

Why should a bus company promote this awful product when One ticket can't be "A****"

But it gets into this vicious cycle because of lack of support. Operators don't care so then the councils stop caring, then the operators care even less, and so on. Ops and Councils (SEStran Partnership) both need to sort themselves out and support the ticket more.

 

[VioletEclipse]

While I realise it would likely be somewhat challenging to implement and some operators would have their complaints, but surely it would be worth it to install a system where tap-tap-cap (or equvalent) works across both McGill's and Lothian (and ideally others too) but with bus operators getting the same revenue they would anyway but a much easier system to navigate as a passanger. I would imagine that there are plenty of folk who would use the 13 (and some who would even use the X39 or 60) but are put off from either just not knowing about it as it's not on the bus app (how many folk see the Lothian app) or put off by having to pay extra as it's not under tap-tap-cap.

 

[route101]

Are any of the McGills day tickets valid on the 13 or 60?

 

[Stan Drews]

Are any of the McGills day tickets valid on the 13 or 60?

Yes, all the tickets valid into the Edinburgh zone can be used on the 13 and 60.

 

[CSB0241]

Midland Bluebird have announced a new service 66 between Stirling & Denny running Hourly Monday to Saturday.

Link: https://www.mcgillsscotlandeast.co.uk/say-hello-service-66

Is there enough demand to warrant a half hourly service on the Denny-Stirling corridor? I’d have thought the X36 every hour (which uses deckers) would be enough.

According to the website, from 26th May Midland Blubird will operate the F1 service (Maddiston - Linlithgow) and 1 early morning Forth Valley Hospital - Dollar and 1 evening Dollar - Forth Valley Hospital journey numbered H3

Looking at the new timetable, it doesn’t look like a lot of leeway has been left between the 1 & F1 at Maddiston, 3min connection for buses to Whitecross & Linlithgow feels a bit tight.

What is the reason for the F29 Falkirk to Bathgate to not operate all day? I think it used to.

I suppose not a lot of people will exactly want to travel between Bathgate & Falkirk, feels like a bit of a niche audience, & the Lothian Country X18 links Bathgate & Armadale, & the SD 6 links Avonbridge to Armadale, so passengers can always switch between the 6 & 29 at Craigbank Road in Avonbridge should they desire to travel between Armadale & Falkirk.

It would make more sense to merge the F1 with the 1 again as the bus has to run from Larbert depot anyway, it was only split in the first because First where making cuts and tried to cut the service before Falkirk council stepped in with the F1.

With the 1 about to be operated by new Yutong E12s, there is very little likelihood of such an expensive asset being used on a tendered route like the F1 where a 16 seat minibus is overkill!

Both of these are fair points to make. Sure it’d make perfect sense for the 1 & F1 to interwork, but at the same time you could use those 6 seater black cabs on the F1 & there’d still be room left for more passengers.

The Airport Express service isn’t affected by the Bright Bus Tours becoming part of the Big Bus brand.

So Bright Bus is just gonna exist for the AirX & - should it return - the Boat & Bridges Tour?

Quite frustrating to see the two Edinburgh Council tender services often run with Bright Bus Airport vehicles, with the front emblazoned with fares which are not the price of those routes. Looks shoddy and potentially puts passengers off.

I do think the consistent use of Bright Bus vehicles on the 13 and 60 is pretty poor to be honest. Once in a while fair enough but at the moment there’s only 2 Streetlites allocated to Livingston and this has been going on consistently for weeks now. Therefore assuming they’re both working at least one Enviro300 will make it onto these routes, often 2 and sometimes 3.

With all hope another Streetlite or two can be transferred eastwards to Livingston thanks to the introduction of the E12s at Larbert. Admittedly though, I think the E200s would actually be better on the 13/60, since they’re a very good middle ground between the wheel-front & door-front Streetlites that were swapped around the 13 & 60 in their first couple months, even if I prefer the Streetlites.

It’s a shame but predictably the 13 does seem to be poorer now than how Edinburgh Coach Lines had it, who in my opinion were better than Lothian ever were at it.

It’s hard to deny that Edinburgh Coach Lines did an amazing job with the 13 all things considered, sure things were a bit rough towards the end (what with them selling off both their Evolutions resulting in coaches showing up here & there), though even that wasn’t too bad. I have also found that the 13 has been a lot less reliable with me compared to when ECL ran it, though that could very well just be because I’ve used the 13 more since McGills took it in.

It’d be difficult for numbers to plummet if the numbers are virtually none in the first place. I’ve never seen a 60 with more than 4 people onboard. I should state that irrespective of operator, this problem would have happened. Perhaps Lothian would have got loadings up slightly, but far below any justification to have a 60.

McGill’s have definitely benefited from some dodgy council decisions to have a tender for a 60 in the first place. Their win at the taxpayers expense.

I think the 60 would be better if it ran like the old Lothian 6 to the Royal Mile, then direct down Canongate down to Holyrood Park, then along via the current 60 route to Bristo Square (with that being it’s terminus), since that’d provide Dumbiedykes with a bus link into the city centre, to a large train hub (though this time Waverley instead of Haymarket, which is probably better), & the slops at Surgeons Hall.

 

[overthewater]

Is there enough demand to warrant a half hourly service on the Denny-Stirling corridor? I’d have thought the X36 every hour (which uses deckers) would be enough.

That route used to be every 30 mins for year, with the old 14/24 and 39, plus Extra on the 139. and before that there was also 81, it was even more frequent.

I suppose not a lot of people will exactly want to travel between Bathgate & Falkirk, feels like a bit of a niche audience, & the Lothian Country X18 links Bathgate & Armadale, & the SD 6 links Avonbridge to Armadale, so passengers can always switch between the 6 & 29 at Craigbank Road in Avonbridge should they desire to travel between Armadale & Falkirk.

That route AKA 77 has been around for years. Then around 1999? it was extended to livingston given direct service, but it was cut back etc. First cut the service back in 2019, and neither Falkirk or West Lothian council wanted to pay to replace it. Avonbridge to Armadale section was original replace by a taxi bus before the current council No6 come along. Its actually scandal what the councils have done, there clearly don't like each other. Just remember the old mess over 449 etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 May 2025 ==

With the 1 about to be operated by new Yutong E12s, there is very little likelihood of such an expensive asset being used on a tendered route like the F1 where a 16 seat minibus is overkill!

Ah the good old days of the No42, when you had running hourly, and you had very little people until 10 got on for Linlithgow at Whitcross.

 

[stevenedin]

They should bring back the 9 from Falkirk to Livingston.

 

[smsm1]

While I realise it would likely be somewhat challenging to implement and some operators would have their complaints, but surely it would be worth it to install a system where tap-tap-cap (or equvalent) works across both McGill's and Lothian (and ideally others too) but with bus operators getting the same revenue they would anyway but a much easier system to navigate as a passanger. I would imagine that there are plenty of folk who would use the 13 (and some who would even use the X39 or 60) but are put off from either just not knowing about it as it's not on the bus app (how many folk see the Lothian app) or put off by having to pay extra as it's not under tap-tap-cap.

I'd love to see a national tap tap cap style system that is cross operator. I reckon than all these operator specific fares and lack of cross operator ticketing is a significant barrier to bus use.

As an example for us to get from Camelon (outside Falkirk) to Fife the best route is a short hop on the 38 to Forth Valley Hospital and get the stagecoach express buses from there.

For a day trip this entails a Falkirk day ticket plus a Stagecoach day ticket (which one depends on how far into Fife we're going). It's hard to get the map of validity of the Stagecoach tickets to show.

One Ticket isn't valid on the Stagecoach buses from Forth Valley/Larbert, and even if it was the two separate operator specific day tickets would be cheaper, due to the zone boundaries.

 

[voidwxrranty]

there enough demand to warrant a half hourly service on the Denny-Stirling corridor? I’d have thought the X36 every hour (which uses deckers) would be enough.

X36’s can go into Denny half full and leave standing, so yes. it is needed