New Go-op train service between Swindon, Taunton and Weston-super-Mare approved by ORR - Access Rights now lapsed

[PG]

“large scale hackers”

They'd probably be better off with hackers!

 

[Killingworth]

They'd probably be better off with hackers!

£86,665 from 110 investors towards a target of £2.6 million with an extended 86 days to go.

If I were involved with this I'd be extremely hacked off with those responsible for the financial planning of the operation. On what assurances did they prepare their plans?

Well meaning enthusiasts they clearly are but even if a few seriously wealthy rabbits are pulled from their hats I have negligible confidence in them ever actually setting up services. Then running them reliably every day? It's a shame.

 

[overthere 2]

Certainly suggests the “large scale backers” are either non-existent or (trying to be positive) have set a hurdle that the crowdfunding has to reach before they’ll pitch in themselves. Somehow, I think the former is more likely.

The optimist/hope in me says that they have got a rich individual/company/investment firm at least interested or post #356 has planted an idea they may not have thought of and it is just a matter of whoever might invest doing their due diligence before committing.

 

[brad465]

There's an event in Weston-super-Mare this Monday evening organised by Go-Op at the Weston museum. Will be interesting if anyone asks the organisers how they see getting the remaining funding still required:

Go-op Cooperative Railway

Event in Weston-super-Mare by Weston-super-Mare Civic Society on Monday, March 10 2025

www.facebook.com

 

[Bertie the bus]

I don't need to spend 1 1/2 hours of my life and £2 to learn the prospects of Go-Op. I managed to do that FoC and in a couple of minutes.

 

[PG]

There's an event in Weston-super-Mare this Monday evening organised by Go-Op at the Weston museum. Will be interesting if anyone asks the organisers how they see getting the remaining funding still required:

Go-op Cooperative Railway

Event in Weston-super-Mare by Weston-super-Mare Civic Society on Monday, March 10 2025

www.facebook.com

Going by that it seems that they aren't too certain over the stations they plan to serve:

Learn the history and prospects of Go-op Cooperative Railway approved to run a community rail service from Weston to Swindon with stops at Bruton, Frome & Melksham.

 

[trainmania100]

2% achieved since January, bringing the total investment up to 3% of their target.

Do the people that have already invested, get their money back if the scheme fails which clearly it will*?

* Can't see any businesses dropping £2 million on a service that is mostly already fulfilled by GWR with one or two changes at Bristol or Reading

 

[weeklycommuter]

I note that the Go-op access rights granted by the Office of Rail and Road are among the reasons given by Network Rail in the following letter why they cannot support the First Wales and Western application for new open access train services between London Paddington and Paignton. Other reasons including First Wales and Western's granted paths for their open access train services between London Paddington and Carmarthen. Even if the Go-op services never run the existence of their paths is a reason to block other open access applications.

https://www.orr.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2025-03/frww-ltd-3rd-sa-network-rail-representations.pdf

 

[Class15]

I note that the Go-op access rights granted by the Office of Rail and Road are among the reasons given by Network Rail in the following letter why they cannot support the First Wales and Western application for new open access train services between London Paddington and Paignton. Other reasons including First Wales and Western's granted paths for their open access train services between London Paddington and Carmarthen. Even if the Go-op services never run the existence of their paths is a reason to block other open access applications.

View attachment 175965

I am curious about the path ‘not supported’ analysis. Is there anywhere where these are available for other trains in the UK?

 

[The Planner]

I am curious about the path ‘not supported’ analysis. Is there anywhere where these are available for other trains in the UK?

They will be internal documents. If the other proposals have firm rights then they will trump any new proposal.

 

[The Planner]

£86,665 from 110 investors towards a target of £2.6 million with an extended 86 days to go.

If I were involved with this I'd be extremely hacked off with those responsible for the financial planning of the operation. On what assurances did they prepare their plans?

Well meaning enthusiasts they clearly are but even if a few seriously wealthy rabbits are pulled from their hats I have negligible confidence in them ever actually setting up services. Then running them reliably every day? It's a shame.

Up to £88,815 with 64 to go, so £2,150 extra in 3 weeks. They will struggle to hit six figures at this rate.

 

[Simon11]

Still barely any movement on amount raised- now at £89,790

Even less movement on any communication from Go-Op, everything seems to have gone very, very quiet over the last month or two?

You would expect them to keep drumming the drums, meeting with key funding stakeholders and promoting their cause. Especially after all the work they have been doing over the last decade or so to get this project off the ground.

So have they already given up?

 

[Killingworth]

Still barely any movement on amount raised- now at £89,790

Even less movement on any communication from Go-Op, everything seems to have gone very, very quiet over the last month or two?

You would expect them to keep drumming the drums, meeting with key funding stakeholders and promoting their cause. Especially after all the work they have been doing over the last decade or so to get this project off the ground.

So have they already given up?

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/go-op-som-wilts-rail#start

Now 115 investors on crowd funder and not even reached £100k. Surely a credible management team has launched such a significant operation with assurances of substantial funding that relies on a lot more reliable sources?

They need to say something sooner or later. Currently the intended paths don't ever look likely to be used.

 

[brad465]

The Go-Op funding has seen a negative feedback loop develop: donations only trickling in makes many other prospective donors hold back for fear they'd waste money donating to a lost cause. This then causes even fewer donations, further reducing the probability of meeting the target.

What the organisers should have done, if they do have big backers in waiting, is get them to put some lump sums in early on over a spread of donations (to make it look like multiple parties back it), so others looking at the project see momentum behind the cause and in turn donate themselves. Then if this isn't enough, the big backers put in the remainder of what they had budgeted for, which by this point could push them over the line.

Even if there are big backers in waiting who do suddenly come in and bankroll the remainder, the earlier donors could feel cheated based on how this has been handled so far.

 

[swt_passenger]

Why would there suddenly be ‘big backers’? If they are aware of the history, back to “Go Co-op”, they‘ll already know he’s been flogging a dead horse for about 15 years.

 

[IanXC]

What the organisers should have done, if they do have big backers in waiting, is get them to put some lump sums in early on over a spread of donations (to make it look like multiple parties back it), so others looking at the project see momentum behind the cause and in turn donate themselves. Then if this isn't enough, the big backers put in the remainder of what they had budgeted for, which by this point could push them over the line.

Even if they had suitable big backers, the action of them splitting their investment into separate chunks to mislead potential other investors, would be rather problematic from a regulatory perspective.

 

[Bertie the bus]

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/go-op-som-wilts-rail#start

Now 115 investors on crowd funder and not even reached £100k. Surely a credible management team has launched such a significant operation with assurances of substantial funding that relies on a lot more reliable sources?

They need to say something sooner or later. Currently the intended paths don't ever look likely to be used.

Go-op have never been credible. They are a bunch of idealists who have come up with one bizarre plan after another for 15 years and think anybody can start a TOC.

 

[Annetts key]

Go-op have never been credible. They are a bunch of idealists who have come up with one bizarre plan after another for 15 years and think anybody can start a TOC.

Anyone can start a TOC, however, lots of money is needed...

 

[Harpo]

Anyone can start a TOC, however, lots of money is needed...

Not usually somebody else’s money.

 

[ainsworth74]

Still reckon my gut instinct that the ORR approved this to put it to bed once and for all when it fails is looking good considering the fundraising isn't going well!

 

[Killingworth]

Go-op have never been credible. They are a bunch of idealists who have come up with one bizarre plan after another for 15 years and think anybody can start a TOC.

So the ORR had had enough and called their bluff, let's see the colour of your money.

Even they may be surprised to see how little they've come up with. If they have more it's high time they declared it. Otherwise an explanation of how they got so much egg over their faces is due, if only as a warning to any others who may have been considering a similar route.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Anyone can start a TOC, however, lots of money is needed...

Which means the vast majority of people can't as they don't have access to many £ millions for flights of fancy. Although, according to some, there are very rich people who are desperate to back ideas such as this but they never adequately explain why, if such people do exist and they have the backing, Go-op set up a crowdfunding campaign.

 

[Harpo]

Although, according to some, there are very rich people who are desperate to back ideas such as this but they never adequately explain why, if such people do exist and they have the backing, Go-op set up a crowdfunding campaign.

The logical conclusion being that big investors consider this a basket case.

 

[zwk500]

Which means the vast majority of people can't as they don't have access to many £ millions for flights of fancy. Although, according to some, there are very rich people who are desperate to back ideas such as this but they never adequately explain why, if such people do exist and they have the backing, Go-op set up a crowdfunding campaign.

The logical conclusion being that big investors consider this a basket case.

Go-Op's entire premise was that it would be a co-operative investment basis, and explicitly didn't want a few big investors calling the shots.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Go-Op's entire premise was that it would be a co-operative investment basis, and explicitly didn't want a few big investors calling the shots.

Given that all the serious funds are with big investors and that there's hardly any spare cash with the general public, the outcome that is currently being achieved is hardly a great surprise.

Maybe they should reconsider that strategy very quickly if they wish to progress any further...?

 

[baz962]

I wondered why it was more for local people iirc. I was going to put in an admittedly small amount that I really wouldn't expect anything back from. Kind of helping and anything back would be a bonus but not expected.

 

[takno]

Given that all the serious funds are with big investors and that there's hardly any spare cash with the general public, the outcome that is currently being achieved is hardly a great surprise.

Maybe they should reconsider that strategy very quickly if they wish to progress any further...?

2 million quid is about what you'd be expected to raise from small investors to get a start-up running now before any even slightly big investors would look at it. The money is there, but general people will want at least some hope of a return, or some sense of charity or good works. This project seems to have been weirdly set up to actively prevent offers either of those.

Hell, it's not beyond the realms of imagination that they could have got 2 million quid by making the kick starter awards a free whistle and a certificate saying "I own a railway". Offering a season ticket on a route nobody wants to go on really doesn't have widespread appeal

 

[ainsworth74]

I wondered why it was more for local people iirc. I was going to put in an admittedly small amount that I really wouldn't expect anything back from. Kind of helping and anything back would be a bonus but not expected.

Yes I was in the same boat. I wouldn't be throwing even £100 in the tin and if I got something back so the much better. But the minimum was £500 for someone not living nearby and no-way am I parting with that! Reckon they've left a lot of money on the table by having that restriction for lower value investors.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Offering a season ticket on a route nobody wants to go on really doesn't have widespread appeal

I suspect the passenger numbers being low between the stated stations may be more a function of the poor current timetable, especially given the general success of new and improved services elsewhere in the country, but I do agree the season ticket approach is probably not the correct one in the post-virus world and the question of increasing the services between those stations would be better done by boosting GWR's services and connections rather than over-laying a different operator?

The principle of the Go-op service is sound; the application of it is missing the target somewhat.

 

[Bertie the bus]

The principle of the Go-op service is sound; the application of it is missing the target somewhat.

No it isn't. Short trains trundling around the countryside don't and never will make any money.