Farage as PM? Could a Trump-style takeover happen in UK?

[nlogax]

100%. In fact I'd argue that Farage has remained so popular because people have brushed his supporters off as idiots, rather than taking seriously their resolve and the breadth of support his positions has.

I'm not labelling people as idiots but I'll certainly continue to point out their lack of critical thinking skills and basic research which we should all strive for as part of the democratic process. We have the entirety of modern history at our fingertips with the accompanying lessons that were learned for generations. The wild notion that Farage is going to step in and change the UK's lot for the better is foolish. No getting around it.

If somebody called me an idiot for voting the way I do, it would quite possibly strengthen my resolve if anything!

Of course, I agree that's one reason that this problem exists. Another is that his supporters increasingly deal in pure absolutes. No nuance, no middle ground, no empathy, no desire to improve everyone's lot. Help me understand that one because I'm damned if I can work it out.

 

[DarloRich]

This govt could save millions on firing all DEI people in the civil service, the BBC and the NHS, they do very little for the money they take in salaries and consultancy fees. Then you have DEI service industries that have spread like ticks relying on contracts from large organisations and govt arms that spend on them.

Do you work in any of these bodies you speak of? Have you any experience of these "DEI People"? Have you met any? What are DEI service industries? How do I get one of these cushy jobs where you earn a fortune?

BTW "DEI" is an American term which points to where much of your information comes from.

Good parenting, instilling good manners, values and virtues ( like don't steal, clean up after yourself etc) are important but from what I've heard in places of work and school, parents seem to leave their kids to their own devices these days.

That doesn't seem accurate - do you have any actual experience of this type of thing?

Parents also have the right to be aware of that their kids are getting up to but then again if they don't even care about that, I despair for the future.

again - this seems inaccurate. What do you think is happening? When? Where?

PS Are you suggesting "modern" parents don't care about thier kids? When did parents stop caring? Which year or period?

 

[styles]

PS Are you suggesting "modern" parents don't care about thier kids? When did parents stop caring? Which year or period?

Not RailWonderer, but just on this point, I do think there's a generational parenting shift. I've been a scout leader for 15 years and you do spot some trends on the way. The number of scouts in the Explorer age (14-18) who have never washed pots is startling. I appreciate dishwashers are far more commonplace but in my experience they never clean pots/pans particularly well so typically require handwashing, so it's a little surprising to see teenagers have their first encounter of a sponge scourer. For the younger sections like Beavers (aged 6-8) we would hand the badges to the parents and they'd sew the badges on. Now it seems much more common to hear, "That's a job for nain!"

Anecdotally I do think this spills over into behaviour. Teenagers have always had groups of badly-behaved types - when my dad was a teenager he was nicking milk bottles and drinking cheap lager down the park. But back then raising it with the parent would result in a (sometimes literal, sometime metaphorical) 'clip round the ear'. There's been a few times over the past few years where I've raised behaviour concerns with parents and they've completely lost it and even blamed some of our other volunteers. I don't recall a single instance of this when I first became a leader 15 years ago, and I don't believe my way of communicating re: behaviour has changed that drastically.

It is of course, anecdotal.

 

[DarloRich]

@styles - I think there has been a change in how people respond to feedback about thier kids. It seems to be very much based on " how dare you tell me what to do" these days. It is indicative of a reduced respect for "position" or "status". People have become more insular and individual.

PS - I cant sow and the kids pack the dishwasher much better than me !

 

[RailWonderer]

Do you work in any of these bodies you speak of? Have you any experience of these "DEI People"? Have you met any? What are DEI service industries? How do I get one of these cushy jobs where you earn a fortune?

BTW "DEI" is an American term which points to where much of your information comes from.

I worked at a UK company where the term DEI was regularly used. We were also sold consultancy on how to increase diversity in the workplace, minority representation, consultancy on how to showcase and market that diversity and training staff on diversity. The entire thing is a moneymaking racket and sensible companies cut back on it when their profits fall, or avoid it completely.

PS Are you suggesting "modern" parents don't care about thier kids? When did parents stop caring? Which year or period?

It's more a broad stroke comment on society, poor manners on the road and everywhere else really.

Of course, I agree that's one reason that this problem exists. Another is that his supporters increasingly deal in pure absolutes. No nuance, no middle ground, no empathy, no desire to improve everyone's lot. Help me understand that one because I'm damned if I can work it out.

Cutting mass migration will improve everyone's lot with less strain on public services and more affordable housing. Improving GDP per capita and increasing productivity with high value services rather than overall GDP is the solution. This country has been running an immigration ponzi scheme since the days of Tony Blair just to pursue <1% growth annually post 2009 with mass unskilled migration. Skilled European workers are turned down for UK visas yet truckloads (900k p/a in April 2023) of paupers from Albania, Africa and the Asian subcontinent turn up here to do no work or min wage work and send much of their earnings back home. Look at all the housebuilding in Albania, all on remittances from the UK.

Did a government ever have real empathy? They display fake empathy instructed to them by PR agents, or spin doctors in how to speak and behave (and even how to stand). I will agree that some of the right wing, Tommy Robinson's supporters do seem unempathetic and individualist but the same cannot be said about all the grassroots right wing.

 

[Grimsby town]

I worked at a UK company where the term DEI was regularly used. We were also sold consultancy on how to increase diversity in the workplace, minority representation, consultancy on how to showcase and market that diversity and training staff on diversity. The entire thing is a moneymaking racket and sensible companies cut back on it when their profits fall, or avoid it completely.

I think you are taking a narrow view of what diversity is. It isn't simply about race or ethnicity. It's also about having people from different backgrounds, experiences and ways of thinking. I once applied for a graduate position in the civil service around a decade ago. The main reason I didn't get the job was because I'm not the quickest reader and I was typing on an unfamiliar keyboard. Reading and writing might be an important part of the job but there are going to be plenty of tasks that don't need very fast reading and writing. I'd be very surprised if the civil service was getting a diverse skill set as result of those tests and could benefit from a process that encouraged diversity.

Some of the tranport related work I do includes Distributional Impact Appraisal and Equality Impact Assements. The majority of that analysis is ensuring that an intervention doesn't have a negative impact on children or the elderly. The Equality Act of 2010 includes a lot of consideration of potential discrimination against elderly, young people and disabled people. Should we get rid of those kinds of equality protections or just the ones that don't and won't impact you?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Also avoids having only rich Oxbridge graduates in an organisation who can't relate to the people they serve as an example.

It's a bit like those who use an odd example to bash H&S ignoring everything else.

 

[Grimsby town]

Also avoids having only rich Oxbridge graduates in an organisation who can't relate to the people they serve as an example.

It's a bit like those who use an odd example to bash H&S ignoring everything else.

I wonder why the likes of the Conservative Party would be against that?

Four of the Reform MPs worked in the City before moving into Politics. Three of them are privately educated. Four of them were born within 50 miles of Central London. Its not a surprise these people are against diversity.

 

[Yew]

“Our youth now love luxury, they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders, and they love to chatter instead of exercise. Children are now tyrants not servants of their household. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

If it helps, Socrates was complaining about "kids these days" back 2400 years ago.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Feb 2025 ==

It's a bit like those who use an odd example to bash H&S ignoring everything else.

Usually such issues are less "health and safety" and more "It's too expensive for us to insure".

 

[DarloRich]

I worked at a UK company where the term DEI was regularly used.

OK so you haven't worked in any of the institutions ( Civil Service/NHS/BBC) you claim are wasting money so I assume your views come from the media.

We were also sold consultancy on how to increase diversity in the workplace, minority representation, consultancy on how to showcase and market that diversity and training staff on diversity.

What's wrong with that? What do you think is happening? How do you feel you are being hurt or damaged by this?

I am a white, well educated, middle class, sadly increasingly middle aged male. I am not threatened by seeing people different to me getting jobs where I work. Why does it worry you?

Cutting mass migration will improve everyone's lot with less strain on public services and more affordable housing.

Let me be really blunt: when the brown people are gone and things don't improve then what? Who is to blame then?

This country has been running an immigration ponzi scheme since the days of Tony Blair just to pursue <1% growth annually post 2009 with mass unskilled migration

are you willing to work for sod all in a care home? Is that a job you want your kids to do? British people aren't prepared to do these jobs. ( at least according to an old school friend who manages a couple of care homes in the north east)

Skilled European workers are turned down for UK visas yet truckloads

Are we ok with Polish plumbers now then? They were the enemy fairly recently! it was the Irish before them. I just cant keep up!

It's more a broad stroke comment on society, poor manners on the road and everywhere else really.

OK - so not parents but society. You seem to be changing your position. When did society change and why do you think it has changed?

Improving GDP per capita and increasing productivity with high value services rather than overall GDP is the solution.

What does that mean? What does that look like from a practical point of view?

 

[FinsburyPark]

The problem is Labour are underperforming on an epic scale when it comes to the economy and cost of living.

Rachel Reeves is catergorically the worst chancellor the UK has ever had in my opinion.

While I think Nigel Farage is a snake oil salesman, one thing that helps his case, no matter how inadvertantly is that Labour are so economically weak and this gives Nigel Farage the opening he could use.

If Labour can't sort out 'bread and butter issues' like the economy or cost of living then we are toast and will likely get Reform in 2029. This is or course, making the assumption that Labour actually last thier whole 5 year term.

I definately give a cynical side eye to Nigel jumping on the Farmers bandwagon to push his own agenda, but he is an opportunist and can see an opportunity when it arises, I'll give him that credit at least.

 

[alex397]

Rachel Reeves is catergorically the worst chancellor the UK has ever had in my opinion.

Worse than Kwasi Kwarteng?

 

[Yew]

Rachel Reeves is catergorically the worst chancellor the UK has ever had in my opinion.

So which policies exactly make you think that?

 

[FinsburyPark]

So which policies exactly make you think that?

To name a few, winter fuel allowance and the Farmers policy.

On a more grander note, we have just had 14 years of the Tories and allthough I voted Lib Dem, as I always ever do, I was at least hoping that the new Labour government would give us some degree of economic hope as a society, not more of the same, perhaps presented in a slightly different way.

I notice that the amount of people who are leaving the UK or are thinking about it is on the rise. Much of this is due to the economy and the lack of economic hope that it would appear many feel.

Even I have considered the rhetorical question, how bad economically does the UK have to get before I choose to leave?

My point is, if I'm thinking it, surely other are as well.

Even though I've been a life long Lib Dem voter (and now a party member) I was at least willing to give Labour a chance, and try to see the best in people.

But I'm not filled with hope when it comes to cost of living/the economy and in my opinion, that is the problem.

Of course all this sentiment will no doubt, by proxy, aid Nigel Farage in his potential aim for no. 10

 

[telstarbox]

Looking at the last election, slightly more people voted for progressive parties (Lab, LD, Green, SNP and Plaid Cymru) than conservative ones (Cons, Reform). I've ignored the small numbers of independents and Northern Ireland voters because they don't split along these lines.

There was also clear tactical voting and campaigning on the broad left which took the Lib Dems to a record total, clearing up in leafy seats where Labour left them to it.

This was after at least 2 years of small boats, Black Lives Matter, transgender discussion and other talking points which could feasibly push voters to the right. Reform got a notable result by winning a few seats, but only with the Tories sinking to a record low.

 

[Ted633]

To name a few, winter fuel allowance and the Farmers policy.

why should all pensioners get a winter fuel allowance? They all get a state pension and those that are not well off financially get pension credits and the WFA if applicable. The WFA is a benefit and should be treated as that and given to those that actually need it.

The farmers policy probably could be better communicated, but I fundamentally agree with it.Farmers still avoid paying anywhere near the amount of IHT the rest of us will pay, and as their land is no longer a tax avoidance asset, their land prices (and therefore farm value) will decrease and hopefully bring ‘family farms’ within the IHT cutoff.
People like Clarkson have caused this change. He bought his farm purely to avoid IHT

 

[FinsburyPark]

I dont think all pensioners should get it.

Yes it should be means tested, that i don't disagree with.

I do think the net has been cast too far and wide and many who do need it, have now lost it.

On the Farmers

Yes its no secret that a small number of people bought farmland as a tax avoidance scheme.

Once again the net has been cast too far and wide and genuine farmers who genuinely 'work the land' and have done for decades have been unfairly hit by it along the way

 

[43096]

On the Farmers

Yes its no secret that a small number of people bought farmland as a tax avoidance scheme.

Once again the net has been cast too far and wide and genuine farmers who genuinely 'work the land' and have done for decades have been unfairly hit by it along the way

On the farmers...

Why should they not pay IHT? Like everyone else has to. Plenty of other businesses handed down generation to generation and they pay it.

 

[The_Train]

Rachel Reeves is catergorically the worst chancellor the UK has ever had in my opinion.

 

[nanstallon]

There are no easy answers. Britain is not the only country facing economic decline. Western Europe generally, even Germany, is losing its shine. When this happens, people turn to anyone who claims to know the way forward.

In Britain, we have had 14 years of Tory incompetence and corruption. The new Labour government is showing itself to be no better. Brexit has yet to deliver its true awfulness as our breaking away from the EU trading bloc shows in our trading figures. So, enter Farage the classic pub bore who knows it all.

Neither are we likely to retain our freedom. The British are far more authoritarian than they care to admit. Our American cousins were quite happy to give up their freedom last year, and any future elections will be Russian style. Why do we think we will be any different in the face of accelerating economic hardship?

 

[oldman]

The problem is Labour are underperforming on an epic scale when it comes to the economy and cost of living.

December 2024. UK Inflation Rate is at 2.50%, compared to 2.60% last month and 4.00% last year. Source

 

[RailWonderer]

Neither are we likely to retain our freedom. The British are far more authoritarian than they care to admit. Our American cousins were quite happy to give up their freedom last year, and any future elections will be Russian style. Why do we think we will be any different in the face of accelerating economic hardship?

What freedoms did Americans give up exactly?...

What's wrong with that? What do you think is happening? How do you feel you are being hurt or damaged by this?

Nothing, it's simply a waste of money

Let me be really blunt: when the brown people are gone and things don't improve then what? Who is to blame then?

We're tackling issues of today, not of 40 years time when we don't even know in what place the country will be in.

Are you willing to work for sod all in a care home? Is that a job you want your kids to do? British people aren't prepared to do these jobs. ( at least according to an old school friend who manages a couple of care homes in the north east)

There are many people on benefits who haven't worked a day in their lives. In Essex, in Lancashire, they're all over, they're unskilled, unemployable. Anecdotal from many people over the years who have been involved and well connected in these communities. Training them up and cutting their benefits is what this nation needs to do. A stronghand Trumpian approach would put some people in line.

You just see the world completely differently to myself and millions of others. I think we can leave it at that.

 

[FinsburyPark]

Yes, I completely agree that Brexit has done us no favours on a number of fronts.

I wonder how this shall impact Nigel as he was the 'architect of Brexit'. Farage goes on TV interviews and says something along the lines of no one so far has done Brexit right in a way that will truly harness the benefits of Brexit.

But then at the same time, Nigel doesn't seem to offer what he would do that would 'make Brexit work'.

This shall all prove to be interesting over the coming months and years as the consensus on Brexit is noticably changing.

I think the economic hardship is likely going ti be a pull factor when it comes to people supporting for Farage, Trump and other such political figures.

One thing that could damage Farage's chances significantly is if Trump fails and fails big on economy/cost of living.

Reports across platforms like YouTube appear to say that swing voters who 'took a chance on Trump' are appearing to regret that decision in a number that is at least noticable.

In some areas of America a carton of eggs is reported to be somewhere between $9 to $10.

I can't imagine that would win over economy sensitive voters.

As Nigel is so publically seen as both a supporter of Trump and a personal friend of Trump, if Trump loses popularity in a large and noticable way between now and next election this could, by proxy, backfire on Nigel

 

[nanstallon]

What freedoms did Americans give up exactly?...

Nothing, it's simply a waste of money

We're tackling issues of today, not of 40 years time when we don't even know in what place the country will be in.

There are many people on benefits who haven't worked a day in their lives. In Essex, in Lancashire, they're all over, they're unskilled, unemployable. Anecdotal from many people over the years who have been involved and well connected in these communities. Training them up and cutting their benefits is what this nation needs to do. A stronghand Trumpian approach would put some people in line.

You just see the world completely differently to myself and millions of others. I think we can leave it at that.

Trump made it clear in his election campaign that he would rule as a dictator. His pardoning of the 6th January rioters, who stormed the Capitol in an attempt to overturn the 2020 election result, had already been promised. He had already stuffed the Supreme Court with tame judges, and promised to cram the civil service with his own loyal appointees.

I do agree that Britain has been too tolerant of the workshy who can live well on welfare benefits.

 

[FinsburyPark]

On benefits.

Yes there are people out there who openly abuse the system. Yes, we need systems in place to prevent these types of people from abusing the system.

The problem can be that in some sleepy towns, there often isn't the jobs to go around.

There are people out there who want to work and are sending countless CVs and not even getting a single interview.

Yes, maybe some with the financial means could relocate. This however is limited to a certain percentage of individuals.

Even in larger towns or even cities, its not easy to get a job, even for the committed people who want to stand on thier own two feet and feel like they are actively contributing to society.

I am employed but have been without a job and on benefits in the past and was once for a year and 3 months. To say it was soul destroying was an understatement.

Yes, be hard on the benefit cheats, oh yes, please do.

But at the same time, please also understand that what with ghost jobs, companies that do not respond and a whole lot of other reasons, job seeking is not a 'walk in the park', and there needs to be long term solutions and not quick fix, band aid style solutions, that don't make any real difference in the long term.

 

[brad465]

There are no easy answers. Britain is not the only country facing economic decline. Western Europe generally, even Germany, is losing its shine. When this happens, people turn to anyone who claims to know the way forward.

In Britain, we have had 14 years of Tory incompetence and corruption. The new Labour government is showing itself to be no better. Brexit has yet to deliver its true awfulness as our breaking away from the EU trading bloc shows in our trading figures. So, enter Farage the classic pub bore who knows it all.

Neither are we likely to retain our freedom. The British are far more authoritarian than they care to admit. Our American cousins were quite happy to give up their freedom last year, and any future elections will be Russian style. Why do we think we will be any different in the face of accelerating economic hardship?

The biggest factor in causing a country like the UK or US to experience authoritarianism is not any particular government or politician aspiring to be a dictator. It's the exceptionalism mindset that is "it cannot happen here" that a critical mass of the population believe in. The fact this mindset is so widespread is actually proof that it can happen here.

This is an inevitable result of a lack of critical thinking in the population, combined with basing policies on emotions rather than evidence.

 

[RailWonderer]

Trump made it clear in his election campaign that he would rule as a dictator. His pardoning of the 6th January rioters, who stormed the Capitol in an attempt to overturn the 2020 election result, had already been promised. He had already stuffed the Supreme Court with tame judges, and promised to cram the civil service with his own loyal appointees.

That's what people voted for but we'll see if there is any opposition to this style of rule. If it remains popular, who are we to judge?

A lot of misinformation on Jan 6ers. They were held on charges of conspiracy, which is the only federal charge the US can imprison anybody on indefinately without any evidence. They do that when they want to put someone behind bars but don't have evidence that would hold up in court. Those Jan 6ers were, in the videos you can see, 'waved in' by security guards who opened the fence but were actually signalling to their colleagues to fall back but Jan 6ers thought they were being waved through. It was a misunderstanding but in any case the Jan 6ers weren't even armed or violent in any of the videos.

If you want to talk about authoritarianism, it started in October 2001 with the Patriot Act, where any protestor can be labelled a domestic terrorist.

 

[GusB]

There are many people on benefits who haven't worked a day in their lives. In Essex, in Lancashire, they're all over, they're unskilled, unemployable. Anecdotal from many people over the years who have been involved and well connected in these communities. Training them up and cutting their benefits is what this nation needs to do.

"Anecdotal from many people over the years" - so again you're relying on second-hand information.

It's not as simple as training people up and cutting benefits. Some people would love to work but cannot due to illness and they're unable to get the medical treatment they need. Certain illnesses are episodic which means that while some will be well enough to work at certain times, they may re-lapse at some point in the future and employers won't look at them.

What happens when you cut those benefits? People become homeless because their rent goes unpaid. The burden then falls upon the local authority to find emergency accommodation, putting further pressure on already stretched budgets. People who are already ill get worse and become a bigger burden on the NHS and we end up with a far bigger problem to deal with.

While I support efforts to go after people who are claiming benefits fraudulently, I don't agree with targeting people who are simply too ill to work. Don't forget that just because someone looks fit enough to work, they may not necessarily be in a fit mental state to work.

A stronghand Trumpian approach would put some people in line.

That sounds a bit authoritarian to me!

 

[Bald Rick]

On the Farmers

Yes its no secret that a small number of people bought farmland as a tax avoidance scheme.

Once again the net has been cast too far and wide and genuine farmers who genuinely 'work the land' and have done for decades have been unfairly hit by it along the way

No farmer is being hit in any way.

Only the will beneficiaries of farmers who own larger farms will be ‘hit’ if, and only if, the farmer hasn’t got their affairs in order 7 years before they die. In that way they are in the same position as any other small business owner.

 

[nanstallon]

No farmer is being hit in any way.

Only the will beneficiaries of farmers who own larger farms will be ‘hit’ if, and only if, the farmer hasn’t got their affairs in order 7 years before they die. In that way they are in the same position as any other small business owner.

Yes, this needs to be made clear. Reeves was correct to clamp down on a blatant loophole, and most farmers will not be affected. Although it is right to protect small family farming businesses, there is no reason why larger farm businesses should be exempt from IHT.