It’s not about the firmness though, it’s about the shape. Please explain why there’s some other modern seats that are actually tolerable, I personally don’t mind most firm modern seats, but these are so badly shaped. It’s possible to have a comfortable modern seat, and the FISA LEAN and 390 seats demonstrate this.
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Merseyrail Class 777 travel experiences
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KevinTurvey
Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2016
- Messages
- 262
I have been travelling on these for a few months now and what I have consistently noticed is that the internal temperature is too high, often warmer than outside even when it is already a warm day. (OK I know this is a matter of personal preference)
There also just does not seem to be enough fresh air circulating inside them, they feel stuffy and it is a relief when the doors open.
Anyone else noticed this?
This contrasts with say the Northern 195/331s, which are of a similar age but always feel a lot fresher inside.
There also just does not seem to be enough fresh air circulating inside them, they feel stuffy and it is a relief when the doors open.
Anyone else noticed this?
This contrasts with say the Northern 195/331s, which are of a similar age but always feel a lot fresher inside.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Fire regulations do not dictate the shape of the seat back, nor width, nor pitch. It's simply bad design, one of the many examples of such on these utterly mediocre (and unreliable) units.
Correct, the fire regulations dictate the material and the contents of the seat padding, if that what you wish to call it (and related items) that could be used. That was clearly stated to me and small group of people who visited Kirkdale Depot a few months ago.
Yes. The temperature is simply set too high and this has always been the case. They need to receive a bombardment of complaints until they agree to lower it.
chesterred16
Member
I travelled on one of these (777 003) from Chester to Liverpool for the first time today. They're fine but nothing special.
The seat firmness was fine, but they're designed for people with no arms. My wife sat next to me so it was fine to cosy up, but strangers sat next to each other might be uncomfortable. I can see people choosing to stand rather than sit next to a stranger. They feel no wider than the old 3+2 seating on Merseyrail where nobody ever sat in the middle seat.
On the way out the external destination was working but none of the internal screens (dot matrix or the moving maps) were working. The guard only made announcements at certain stations (Hooton, Rock Ferry, Hamilton Sq) so other than that there was no indication of next station or destination. It actually made a nice change to have a quiet journey. On the return journey on the same unit (several hours later), this was fixed.
In all cases the onboard announcements were garbled, it sounds as though the guard is underwater. And actually there was no sign of the guard on either journey, I thought part of the deal was they were going to be more visible?
On the positive, I love the big windows, the ride is much smoother and quieter, and the acceleration is fantastic!
The seat firmness was fine, but they're designed for people with no arms. My wife sat next to me so it was fine to cosy up, but strangers sat next to each other might be uncomfortable. I can see people choosing to stand rather than sit next to a stranger. They feel no wider than the old 3+2 seating on Merseyrail where nobody ever sat in the middle seat.
On the way out the external destination was working but none of the internal screens (dot matrix or the moving maps) were working. The guard only made announcements at certain stations (Hooton, Rock Ferry, Hamilton Sq) so other than that there was no indication of next station or destination. It actually made a nice change to have a quiet journey. On the return journey on the same unit (several hours later), this was fixed.
In all cases the onboard announcements were garbled, it sounds as though the guard is underwater. And actually there was no sign of the guard on either journey, I thought part of the deal was they were going to be more visible?
On the positive, I love the big windows, the ride is much smoother and quieter, and the acceleration is fantastic!
Been a few months since I rode on a Class 777, but a ride today on No 777004 between Chester to Hooton which includes some fast running due to length of stop between Bache and Capenhurst.
Right lets get the 'prime' issue out of the way, the seats!! Sadly nothing has changed my mind that the seats are too hard and really not comfortable to sit on. I was happy to give up my seat to another person as I had 'num bum' and I had no inclination to sit down again! People had mentioned the width of the seats and realised this is down to two things, one, no gap between the seats in comparison with the Class 507 / 8's which provides extra width and two, the wider isles which prevent wider seats. I am really not sure how anyone is going to solve the problem but the design of the seats is very questionable and definitely at least need a little bit of cushion. Being 5'7" tall, I had no issues with the back of the seats so may it is ideal for people of that height?
The other thing I really noticed whether sitting or standing up, was the ride! Yes, it can be smooth and quiet but anything that is not straight / smooth on the track, makes the Unit sway from one side to another, sometimes just a gentle sway, other occasions more so especially in comparison with the Class 507 / 8's. It seems like you out at sea and on a swell! I was really not expecting that but may be something to do with the articulated bogies?
Finally my ride from Hooton to Chester was by No 508103 with just one stop being Bache. That was an enjoyable ride, seat was fine and the ride too. Certainly the driver was making the most of line speed for sure but was that my last ride on a Class 508 I wonder, if so, a nice memory.
Right lets get the 'prime' issue out of the way, the seats!! Sadly nothing has changed my mind that the seats are too hard and really not comfortable to sit on. I was happy to give up my seat to another person as I had 'num bum' and I had no inclination to sit down again! People had mentioned the width of the seats and realised this is down to two things, one, no gap between the seats in comparison with the Class 507 / 8's which provides extra width and two, the wider isles which prevent wider seats. I am really not sure how anyone is going to solve the problem but the design of the seats is very questionable and definitely at least need a little bit of cushion. Being 5'7" tall, I had no issues with the back of the seats so may it is ideal for people of that height?
The other thing I really noticed whether sitting or standing up, was the ride! Yes, it can be smooth and quiet but anything that is not straight / smooth on the track, makes the Unit sway from one side to another, sometimes just a gentle sway, other occasions more so especially in comparison with the Class 507 / 8's. It seems like you out at sea and on a swell! I was really not expecting that but may be something to do with the articulated bogies?
Finally my ride from Hooton to Chester was by No 508103 with just one stop being Bache. That was an enjoyable ride, seat was fine and the ride too. Certainly the driver was making the most of line speed for sure but was that my last ride on a Class 508 I wonder, if so, a nice memory.
simonmpoulton
Member
- Joined
- 25 Jun 2011
- Messages
- 217
Had the pleasure of riding one of these new 777's today. Ride quality is great and they are much quieter than the PEP units! My only negatives observed were first that the seats are really hard and not comfortable at all. Also the PIS announcements were very quiet - I don't have the greatest hearing in the world and I struggled to hear them to be honest!
childwallblues
Established Member
Excellent glad you liked them. I have had over 50 journeys on the units now and never notice the seats. I prefer the airline seating as on the old units in the bays of four I always seem to get the 6 ft plus sitting opposite. As for the PIS most announcements are to mind the doors I have found.
irish_rail
On Moderation
Not being able to hear the constant drivel of automated announcements is probably a bonus, I'd be careful what you wish for. I remember when IETs first came out on GWR the announcements where ridiculously loud, luckily they have since been toned down. My personal experience of the 777s is the announcements where perfectly audible, the seating was fine, but I did get a strange feeling of nausea when it was racing along which I put down to the very large and very low tram like window. Oh and they are just as ugly in real life as they are in the photos LOL.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think the seats are only really an issue to tall people who are long in the body due to the odd forward curve of the top part. If your head is at a height that it rests on the headrest you'll not notice it.
They are hard, but that doesn't really bother people generally that much for short journeys, certainly I'm OK with it.
I do but (being the 6ft plus) the legroom on these is poor other than the priority rows. This is counterproductive because legs in the aisle get in the way of movement.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Few more observations from today's ride on several units:
It seems that the seats are mounted on a pair of transverse poles and so can be slid along them. Two units I rode had them shoved up against the wall (uncomfortable), one had them spaced about half an inch away from it (much better). A bit sloppy that they aren't consistent, but it'd be great if they could space them all!
Non functional PIS on a couple of the units. Also notably the bottom line of the cab end ones is obscured, again a bit sloppy in design/build terms.
Noticed that if you sit at the cab end there's a very unpleasant quite low-frequency vibration from the bogies.
A very interesting observation with regard to the method of operation, having witnessed something very close to the famous James St incident at Town Green on the way home (but this time handled correctly by staff). Drunken idiot (not sure how he got past the "alcohol police", perhaps boarded at an ungated station?) gets off and starts wandering down the platform, guard gives the tip as he's well away from the train. Shortly after the doors all closed he stumbles over to the train and starts belting on the window. Driver doesn't depart. He wanders away and the train starts moving slowly. He then stumbles back against it and it stops again. This happens twice before he stumbles over to the footbridge, falls up it (!), gets up and wanders off and the train departs (slowly, presumably in case he reappeared). Had this been a conventional guard operated train (or conventional mirror based DOO for that matter) he would quite possibly have been dragged under as nobody would have known about it, but the driver was very clearly watching the monitors on departure and an accident was avoided. The "toblerones" may also have helped avoid the risk of him falling under the train. This probably gives a fair bit of credibility to the "two pairs of eyes" method of dispatch now used.
It seems that the seats are mounted on a pair of transverse poles and so can be slid along them. Two units I rode had them shoved up against the wall (uncomfortable), one had them spaced about half an inch away from it (much better). A bit sloppy that they aren't consistent, but it'd be great if they could space them all!
Non functional PIS on a couple of the units. Also notably the bottom line of the cab end ones is obscured, again a bit sloppy in design/build terms.
Noticed that if you sit at the cab end there's a very unpleasant quite low-frequency vibration from the bogies.
A very interesting observation with regard to the method of operation, having witnessed something very close to the famous James St incident at Town Green on the way home (but this time handled correctly by staff). Drunken idiot (not sure how he got past the "alcohol police", perhaps boarded at an ungated station?) gets off and starts wandering down the platform, guard gives the tip as he's well away from the train. Shortly after the doors all closed he stumbles over to the train and starts belting on the window. Driver doesn't depart. He wanders away and the train starts moving slowly. He then stumbles back against it and it stops again. This happens twice before he stumbles over to the footbridge, falls up it (!), gets up and wanders off and the train departs (slowly, presumably in case he reappeared). Had this been a conventional guard operated train (or conventional mirror based DOO for that matter) he would quite possibly have been dragged under as nobody would have known about it, but the driver was very clearly watching the monitors on departure and an accident was avoided. The "toblerones" may also have helped avoid the risk of him falling under the train. This probably gives a fair bit of credibility to the "two pairs of eyes" method of dispatch now used.
danbarjon
Member
Tried my first ever 777 today. It was great, the level boarding was super (even brought my mother and her walker to test it as she was very happy to hear of level boarding), very impressed with the speediness of the trains.
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Tried these out last week, staying with relatives at Cressington. Apart from the hard seats, I found it a nice train to ride on, once I got used to the varying floor levels. The lack of internal doors gave a more spacious feel and the performance seemed good. Level boarding also great for those with mobility issues. The 777/1 trip to Headbolt Lane went without a hitch. I didn't see any network maps inside the train (which the 507s have) and hope these will be provided as they help visitors.
I idly wondered if TfW should acquire some 777s with longer-range batteries for Wrexham - Bidston and extend the service to Birkenhead North, where there is a spare platform and they could recharge off the live rail. A few 507s soldiered on between Hunts Cross and Southport.
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If they do, they’ll go round the loop. The “spare” platform can’t be used as a turn back for passenger service without signalling changes and a trip round the loop is more than enough to fill the batteries back up.
nigelsporne
Member
I have spent this week travelling around the Merseyrail system looking for the 777s. I saw all the current units except 777150. Normally there were 34 to 36 units in service, 3 at Southport and 1 at Hooton. 5 or 6 units were outside Kirkdale so that meant around 6 units were in the sheds at Kirkdale or Birkenhead out of view.
The units performed well with no cancellations or breakdowns. The seats are firm but acceptable. The announcements I found in line with other operators. There were issues with people standing by the door even when seats were available. This at times was made worse by people with bikes occupying this area as well which made getting on or off difficult. The same problems occured on the 507s too.
The ride was good except for the jointed track near Southport.
The sad thing was that Headbolt Lane station building was closed and covered in scaffolding. Not been open for a year yet!
Staff were helpful and polite.
All in all a tick in the box for the 777s and Merseyrail
The units performed well with no cancellations or breakdowns. The seats are firm but acceptable. The announcements I found in line with other operators. There were issues with people standing by the door even when seats were available. This at times was made worse by people with bikes occupying this area as well which made getting on or off difficult. The same problems occured on the 507s too.
The ride was good except for the jointed track near Southport.
The sad thing was that Headbolt Lane station building was closed and covered in scaffolding. Not been open for a year yet!
Staff were helpful and polite.
All in all a tick in the box for the 777s and Merseyrail
Northerngirl
Member
Has anyone else noticed that the folding seats in the middle bays are drooping quite substantially, I felt like I was sliding off on 777015 the other day
Tram203
Member
Just to add my two-pence worth to this, I had a trundle around Liverpool for a few hours yesterday, managing to travel on 35 and see 37 of the 38 units in traffic.
A few observations I made were as follows;
: open and spacious inside, seating adequate and comfy enough for what they do
: bit of an odd design of the wood effect cloaking below the windows, I can see the 5-10mm gap between the top edge of it and the plastic paneling beginning to fill with sweet wrappers, chewing gum etc on many units already
: frequently losing time at station calls, seemingly with some step boards being hesitant to retract
: Headbolt Lane services (battery units) seemed much worse punctuality wise than all others, though admittedly only by a few minutes
: perhaps just luck of the draw, but all 8 units on the Ormskirk circuit (including a battery one) were even numbered ones
: numerous units with "non-multi" sheets in cab windows
Overall though, like the London Overground I'd say, basic and no frills, but adequate enough.
A few observations I made were as follows;
: open and spacious inside, seating adequate and comfy enough for what they do
: bit of an odd design of the wood effect cloaking below the windows, I can see the 5-10mm gap between the top edge of it and the plastic paneling beginning to fill with sweet wrappers, chewing gum etc on many units already
: frequently losing time at station calls, seemingly with some step boards being hesitant to retract
: Headbolt Lane services (battery units) seemed much worse punctuality wise than all others, though admittedly only by a few minutes
: perhaps just luck of the draw, but all 8 units on the Ormskirk circuit (including a battery one) were even numbered ones
: numerous units with "non-multi" sheets in cab windows
Overall though, like the London Overground I'd say, basic and no frills, but adequate enough.
317 forever
Established Member
I rode my first quartet of 777s yesterday.
A nice touch was that the unit numbers were in the correct order : 777 012 / 024 / 027 / 043.
While others of you might already have said the same thing, I found the ride smoother but seating less pleasant than the 507/508s.
A nice touch was that the unit numbers were in the correct order : 777 012 / 024 / 027 / 043.
While others of you might already have said the same thing, I found the ride smoother but seating less pleasant than the 507/508s.
baldyman26
Member
- Joined
- 2 Aug 2012
- Messages
- 137
Recent experiences of a regular traveller.
2 or 3 min late is a regular occurrence now, however more trains have turned up than not which is far from what it was 12 months ago.
You can tell what units have been cleaned properly as they scrub up well but regularly in the mornings most have just had a wipe round with a dirty mop. Currently Merseyrail have really good days and then a pretty bad one in terms of trains turning up.
Still see units with not in service alot, and when guards do make any announcements they sound like it's being processed by a 1970s sound machine.. That really needs to stop.
One thing that is more noticeable is the use of "doors out of use" stickers on both doors and the panel things the guards tap. It's far from a perfect service but is improved, the same cannot be said for city centre stations though, they seem on the verge of complete failure.
Network rail really have left Merseyrail to rot in that respect, including lime street, when other big city stations are like palaces.
2 or 3 min late is a regular occurrence now, however more trains have turned up than not which is far from what it was 12 months ago.
You can tell what units have been cleaned properly as they scrub up well but regularly in the mornings most have just had a wipe round with a dirty mop. Currently Merseyrail have really good days and then a pretty bad one in terms of trains turning up.
Still see units with not in service alot, and when guards do make any announcements they sound like it's being processed by a 1970s sound machine.. That really needs to stop.
One thing that is more noticeable is the use of "doors out of use" stickers on both doors and the panel things the guards tap. It's far from a perfect service but is improved, the same cannot be said for city centre stations though, they seem on the verge of complete failure.
Network rail really have left Merseyrail to rot in that respect, including lime street, when other big city stations are like palaces.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I did not notice any particularly tired looking Merseyrail staions. But then I frequent stations in South London, some of which could be "improved".
Polarbear
Established Member
I was last on a 777 last weekend, and noticed some units were rather toasty!
I went on a couple of rides on 777s today between Central and Southport.
Overall I think they are a very nice train. Acceleration is great, and seats are well aligned with windows. The internal steps aren't horrendous - they are about the height of half a normal step. Level boarding is of course extremely welcome, though given the 760mm wheel size and 75mph top speed, I'm still not sure if this model is suited to London area trains that often need to be spec'd for 90mph and handle crush standing loads.
Overall I think they are a very nice train. Acceleration is great, and seats are well aligned with windows. The internal steps aren't horrendous - they are about the height of half a normal step. Level boarding is of course extremely welcome, though given the 760mm wheel size and 75mph top speed, I'm still not sure if this model is suited to London area trains that often need to be spec'd for 90mph and handle crush standing loads.
Alan508
Member
I think the Class 777's are wonderful units and certainly are fitting in well to the merseyrail network, I certainly know that Phil agrees with me!
I'll tell you a secret. Between you and me, so do the vast majority of regular, local users.
FrontSideBus
On Moderation
- Joined
- 11 Feb 2025
- Messages
- 451
Tbh, the only thing I don't like about them are the seats, which are far too narrow!
They break down a lot, they skip stations a lot . The doors wont open quickly the outside window seats have no leg room. The pis can not be heard . The displays telling you where you are are unreadable , the ac is not the same in all carriages , they dont run when its icy or in snow . Most wont run as a 8 carriage unit (Wirral anyway) . Not all of us are fans.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Interestingly one of the build quality issues with these units is that some have them spaced away from the sidewall and some have them right up against it, and some have a mix. An inch away from the sidewall makes all the difference.
They are still badly shaped and make your back curve unnaturally if tall, though.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I would struggle to say any better than "tolerable" to be honest. The Tyne and Wear Class 555s are like chalk and cheese, with a far higher quality and more thought through feel. I wouldn't advocate the side facing seats for the longer journeys on Merseyside but the whole package just seems better thought through.