Etickets - what is the benefit?

[A S Leib]

As well as the points mentioned so far, if using split tickets I find it a lot easier to have them in one combined PDF than as what could come to half a dozen or more paper tickets (especially if multiple people are travelling or for a return journey).

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I find e-tickets great.

Bought tickets for a group of 4, everyone had their individual tickets sent to them by me within minutes, and I also have everyones' on my phone as well, and my old spare phone. We could also print copies if we wanted.

If paper, the 4 PDFs would be 8 tickets, 2 receipts, and eithet 2 or 8* reservation coupons for the Avantis, maybe another 2 or 8* for the Northern counted places as well.

Also saves time compared to using a ticket machine (and waiting for all of them to print!)
I use an in-app season ticket, and basically have no issues.


* Would it really print the reservations seperately? I've not printed paper tickets with reservations for a group for many years, so I'm not sure.

 

[redreni]

You fall foul of it by buying online and not buying the correct tickets, no matter whether they are fulfilled as paper or eTickets.

Yes, but pretty much every ticket is the correct ticket for one purpose or another. It's easier with e-tickets for the TOC to establish how it was used and thus form a view as to whether it has been used correctly. There may be circumstances where reasonable people may disagree on what's correct and what isn't, or at least on what ought to be valid if not on what actually is valid, in which case the less the TOC knows about how the ticket was used, the less scope there may be for them to be troubled by that knowledge.

 

[Tetragon213]

For some reason, when I was making work journeys to Cardiff, the system adamantly refused to allow e-tickets, and instead forced you to go to the ticket machine to get a paper ticket.

It was a faff to deal with, especially if you arrived later than expected due to a late running bus. It was absolutely infuriating when someone pickpocketed me on Queen Street and took my ticket pouch, necessitating an awkward conversation with HR to get a replacement.

 

[TUC]

Yet again, this is a thread where I am left wondering why, if etickets are so hard to use, I regularly sits in trains where ticket inspections are happening and hear a string of beeps as 95% of passengers are using them?

 

[BazingaTribe]

Yet again, this is a thread where I am left wondering why, if etickets are so hard to use, I regularly sits in trains where ticket inspections are happening and hear a string of beeps as 95% of passengers are using them?

Yeah, same. They have really taken off because to the general population they are more convenient.

They made it really easy for me to commute for around four or five of the ten years I took the train to work. I can count on one hand the difficulties I had by e.g. buying a single journey the wrong way round because of being dozy while using the app and paying a sort of 'stupid tax' for the mistake and so on. (I didn't have many more issues with paper tickets but it does help me to streamline things -- as neurologically challenged I need all the help I can get!)

I currently travel for work a few times a month. I have my own work phone, but I can send emailed tickets to my own smartphone no problem. I do have to ensure I click the e-ticket option on our website that defaults to TOD, but after that it's plain sailing.

For phone battery issues, buy a cable and maybe a plug charger or battery pack. Most trains have sockets on them; I carry them anyway because of wanting to charge my phone at work, a hotel or my parents' place or generally at home. Battery packs are useful for me because I do several events a year when I will be using my phone to connect to a card reader but won't have access to a fixed mains socket, so I'm not just buying charging accessories to use e-tickets -- they are really useful in so many different modern situations that most people will have them already and carry them while out.

London is an exception but I've generally got round that by buying an e-ticket to a terminal then using contactless onward. I haven't yet had to cross London to get anywhere (Reading is brilliant as a junction for a lot of different lines and so even going to some more exotic locations I can avoid London altogether) but as someone I dearly love says, 'I'll fall off that bridge when I come to it'.

The only reason to get paper tickets is still PlusBus but even that is only a marginal saving over the main bus system day ticket I buy for. Once they integrate that into e-tickets I'll be laughing.

Honestly, e-tickets are a complete godsend Just like my work's paperless office, it's an absolute game-changer for this autistic person who drowns under a mass of clutter if given the chance. Mind you, I am one of those people who would have her phone implanted in her wrist if given half the chance, so that's my perspective as to what makes things easier, but the general consensus out there on the actual railway seems to be on my side rather than OP's.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

To go back to the original question, bluntly it doesn't matter if there's a benefit to the passenger or not. It seems to me obvious that it's massively cheaper to issue an e-ticket rather than a paper one (no TVMs: no booking office staff: for each ticket, no special paper ticket blanks to get manufactured) and I will take a punt on believing that the software needed for etickets won't be so much more expensive than the paper ticket equivalent as to eliminate the reduced running costs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's one of those elusive business win-wins. Most passengers prefer it (evidenced by how many you see being scanned now and by the fact that so many pay Trainline an extra fee for it) and it saves the business money. It's not just the railway - almost every other line of business has gone that way too. Who books a theatre ticket by telephone and stands in an extra unnecessary queue to collect it now?

 

[Haywain]

almost every other line of business has gone that way too

Yes. One day football will catch up! I can get an eTicket for a home match but not for away matches.

 

[Jan Mayen]

I guess I'm just annoyed with myself for making a mistake with my eticket purchase on Saturday. Mind you, I remember making my first online (not eticket, admittedly) purchase with Qjump (remember them?). I got the date wrong. Although I immediately phoned up and explained, they just shrugged their shoulders and said tough luck (or words to that effect). Perhaps I'll give etickets another chance

 

[BazingaTribe]

I guess I'm just annoyed with myself for making a mistake with my eticket purchase on Saturday. Mind you, I remember making my first online (not eticket, admittedly) purchase with Qjump (remember them?). I got the date wrong. Although I immediately phoned up and explained, they just shrugged their shoulders and said tough luck (or words to that effect). Perhaps I'll give etickets another chance

I don't know how long ago Qjump was active, but I remember back in 2017 I panicked when I thought I had the wrong date for a paper ticket and bought another, only to realise that the date was actually the same as it was on the first ticket. (I told you I was neurologically challenged.) They allowed me to refund the second ticket -- if you're ever in that situation again, e-ticket or no, ask for a refund rather than an amendment.

And do try again. It might be worth asking whether you can buy a ticket on your personal device and claim a refund on expenses. That way it's in an easier format to just use whenever and wherever. (I do have a work mobile but because most of my work collaboration is done through Teams and I'm not on call, I have never got into the habit of keeping it charged up.)

 

[Jan Mayen]

I don't know how long ago Qjump was active, but I remember back in 2017 I panicked when I thought I had the wrong date for a paper ticket and bought another, only to realise that the date was actually the same as it was on the first ticket. (I told you I was neurologically challenged.) They allowed me to refund the second ticket -- if you're ever in that situation again, e-ticket or no, ask for a refund rather than an amendment.

And do try again. It might be worth asking whether you can buy a ticket on your personal device and claim a refund on expenses. That way it's in an easier format to just use whenever and wherever. (I do have a work mobile but because most of my work collaboration is done through Teams and I'm not on call, I have never got into the habit of keeping it charged up.)

Thank you for the tip. All my travel is either commuting or leisure, so can't claim expenses. Sadly

 

[Wallsendmag]

Is it possible to buy an eticket without specifying an itinerary?

Yes from any LNER Travel Centre

 

[Scotty]

Yes. One day football will catch up! I can get an eTicket for a home match but not for away matches.

Most away matches I've attended this season for my club (in the National League), the ticket has been stored on my phone - either as a PDF attachment, or loaded into the wallet. My home season ticket is in my phone wallet, too.

 

[ainsworth74]

Is it possible to buy an eticket without specifying an itinerary?

Yes if you use the now positively ancient mixing deck style online booking engine (such as GWR here) you can do it. Whilst you have still give it a date and a time for it to search for itineraries you can select a ticket and then proceed straight to booking without selecting an itinerary (obviously if you choose an AP it will force you to choose an itinerary however!). The delivery options include e-tickets.

 

[Pete 1981]

This is possibly my most contentious question here.

Last week, I booked some train tickets for work and thought "I'll try etickets."

So, I have two A4 PDFs on my laptop which I cannot print, due to the IT policy and network restrictions.

I can (probably) email them to my personal email and download them on the phone and bring them up in the PDF viewer there.


So, this is not exactly an insurmountable problem.
But it does feel like more faff than getting to the station a couple of minutes earlier, or popping in this evening on my way to the supermarket, and getting a ticket printed from the machine.


(I'm going to assume that taking a photo of the Aztec code on the laptop screen with my phone is probably going to be an invitation for questions and an investigation into every ticket that has been purchased using our travel portal?)


So, as a genuine question, what is the direct advantage to me as a passenger of using etickets over orange card tickets? (ie I'm ignoring the cost as part of the ticket for paying for someone to refill the machines etc)

I can get tickets on my phone that the friendly staff at my local station can't sell me as cheaply.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Yes. One day football will catch up! I can get an eTicket for a home match but not for away matches.

Recent trips to manure Spurs and Arsenal have all been digital tickets although Ipswich was paper

 

[Haywain]

Recent trips to manure Spurs and Arsenal have all been digital tickets although Ipswich was paper

The one and only away match I've ever had a digital ticket for was at QPR early this season. It was definitely paper for Spurs and Arsenal last season - paper with barcodes on, but not available electronically. And the barcode readers many turnstiles are fitted with have a slot too small for a phone.

 

[steinsson]

I insist on collecting and buying the physical tickets, *always*.
I don't hold any grudges against those who prefer the convenience of the e-tickets - they're handy! But I'm a traditionalist, and I like to hold onto something for my money, if you understand my reasoning.

 

[Hadders]

As ever, the railway tries to confuse things using terms like 'e-tickets'. A better description would be barcode tickets.

All tickets will be moving to barcode ticket format, whether purchased online, at a ticket office or at a ticket machine. A big advantage of barcode tickets is they can be displayed in several different ways - on paper, or on a smartphone screen. Absokutely nothing wrtong with a traditionalist wanting a physical piece of paper, or purchasing from a ticket office, but this is likely to be a till-roll style piece of paper with a barcode on it, rather than orange credit card sized card.

 

[Skymonster]

I’m probably a 95% paper person, only taking e-tickets when they are unavoidable or paper costs more. Its not about the physicality; I just find it easier, more convenient and safer (less risk of damage / loss / theft of a valuable phone) to offer a piece of card/paper. I don’t begrudge or think less of those who have the opposite view though.

I think we are all aware that e-tickets save the railway money - fewer TVMs, no consumables, reduced misuse. Indeed it could be argued that e-tickets cost the customer more, albeit not a lot more - more frequent phone charging, paper and printing costs if a physical bar code is carried. It irks me is that the railway sometimes seeks to levy an additional charge on those who choose a paper ticket (Cross Country I’m looking at you for example). The railway supposedly saves money with e-tickets so it should share those savings with the customer by offering a small reduction for those opting for e-tickets, rather than “fine” people who want paper. Its a sad inditement on the modern world, rail ticketing in this case, that the approach is to penalise rather than incentivise as a lever for changing behaviour.

 

[Blindtraveler]

What's clear from this discussion is there is still an obvious issue with some websites, particularly for corporate business, travel or travel agencies who are happy to deliver electronic format tickets but are still only doing them as PDF which largely removes the usefulness as far as I'm concerned, at least. I work for several organisations and I flatly refuse to use the corporate travel partner of one of them in particular for this very reason. This quite often leads to significant financial inconvenience for myself whilst I wait for expenses to come back. But if I can transition my way through a journey from Kent to Milton Keynes and back again on e-tickets in Google wallet then it's worth it for me

 

[Indigo Soup]

Absokutely nothing wrtong with a traditionalist wanting a physical piece of paper, or purchasing from a ticket office, but this is likely to be a till-roll style piece of paper with a barcode on it, rather than orange credit card sized card.

I know the primary reason for physical tickets going to till-roll style is primarily for cost, but I'm sure it's a secondary benefit that they're a bit crap to deal with, creating another subtle pressure towards e-tickets.

 

[Hadders]

I know the primary reason for physical tickets going to till-roll style is primarily for cost, but I'm sure it's a secondary benefit that they're a bit crap to deal with, creating another subtle pressure towards e-tickets.

I don't think it's just cost. It's also convenience, the world moves on....

Let me give you a non-railway example. I follow a rugby team and attend a large number of matches all over the UK and Europe (and sometimes even further afield). Historically an allocation of tickets for away matches were made available to the away team and put on sale at the ticket office at my club. My home match-day routine always involved going to the ticket office to buy tickets for away matches. Many an hour was spent in all weathers queueing outside the ticket office for semi-final or final tickets. I loved having the physical tickets as a reminder of matches I've attended.

Nowadays tickets are purchased online or through apps. I can select my seat. The ticket is a barcode ticket delivered either as a PDF or a ticket I can ut into my phone wallet (usually both). Simple to distribute when I buy tickets for other people. No more queuing up outside a ticket office for final tickets (although sometimes a wait to access a website instead....).. Turn up at the turnstile show the barcode and in I go!

It's a change I didn't want to make at first. It's a pain having online accounts at practically every Premiership, URC and Top 14 rugby club. I don't have the physical tickets any longer. But on reflection, it's much better system than what we had before.

Like on the railway, things change.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

The railway supposedly saves money with e-tickets so it should share those savings with the customer by offering a small reduction for those opting for e-tickets, rather than “fine” people who want paper.

There is no practical difference between those two things. You're just talking about how it is put forward to people.

 

[Indigo Soup]

I don't think it's just cost. It's also convenience, the world moves on....

I don't dispute that e-tickets are vastly more convenient and preferred by most passengers, as well as the railway, for a litany of reasons.

There are, as this (and other) threads demonstrate, still a number of people who continue to use physical tickets. Some don't have any choice in the matter. But those who prefer credit-card sized tickets for their form factor or for nostalgia grounds may not feel the same about till roll tickets.

 

[Adam Williams]

What's clear from this discussion is there is still an obvious issue with some websites, particularly for corporate business, travel or travel agencies who are happy to deliver electronic format tickets but are still only doing them as PDF which largely removes the usefulness as far as I'm concerned, at least. I work for several organisations and I flatly refuse to use the corporate travel partner of one of them in particular for this very reason. This quite often leads to significant financial inconvenience for myself whilst I wait for expenses to come back. But if I can transition my way through a journey from Kent to Milton Keynes and back again on e-tickets in Google wallet then it's worth it for me

Unfortunately most corporate travel systems tend to get procured on the basis of "what makes finance's life easier" and the experience for the end-user doesn't really come into it. The "big" players try to take a "jack of all trades, master of none" approach in my view where rail is just one small piece of what they deliver.

But, there are plenty of options if you are at an SME or another less bureaucratic organisation. The retailers who actually deliver a B2C solution are probably the place to look, because they won't have a "captive audience" on their consumer side and will have to compete with other retailers and evolve their product to offer features customers want. Ideally what you want is a solution where the business booking system is the same codebase as the consumer version with features that get enabled based on the booking context. This will mean that their business offering inheritance all of the functionality from the consumer solution.

When I last used it, Trainline for Business didn't meet this requirement (click on the "wrong" link, end up on an aspx page that looked like it came out of 2005 which wouldn't happen on the consumer site).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately most corporate travel systems tend to get procured on the basis of "what makes finance's life easier" and the experience for the end-user doesn't really come into it.

Probably true. Certainly nobody would procure the SAP product suite for its user interface, as it probably has one of the worst of any currently available IT platform! Yet basically every large business uses it in some form because of its power for the financial departments.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

more frequent phone charging,

An e-ticket is barely going to take any power, especially if you only show it at barriers and when checked on train.

Charging a phone on the train is also possible, and for most people a day's charge can be filled up overnight.

 

[crablab]

When I last used it, Trainline for Business didn't meet this requirement (click on the "wrong" link, end up on an aspx page that looked like it came out of 2005 which wouldn't happen on the consumer site).

When I last used it, Trainline for Business in general looked like it came out of 2005. It was nothing like the consumer facing site (well, it looked like the Cross Country booking engine I remember from the early 2010s, which was Trainline white label)