Hulley's of Baslow (Defunct)

[derbybusdepot]

It is to be hoped that by getting rid of the expensive new vehicles, and any other measures, will adjust things enough for them to continue trading successfully.

 

[Trainman40083]

It is to be hoped that by getting rid of the expensive new vehicles, and any other measures, will adjust things enough for them to continue trading successfully.

I do hope so.

 

[SCH117X]

They would require retendering or short term contract awarded. Are all their other routes commercial?

When Stevensons went bust in North Yorkshire emergency short term agreements with operators were made which did not neccessarily materialise into the award of the tender.

 

[MotCO]

It does attract NI - having fewer people working more hours costs more in NI than the other way as there is a £5k earnings threshold that it applies from (£9k now reducing in April).

But few staff probably earn less than £5k per year - maybe a few casual staff, and that assumes they do not have any other earned income.

 

[tom1649]

They would require retendering or short term contract awarded. Are all their other routes commercial?

No, both the 63 and 173 are also contracted by DCC.

 

[38291018]

Are all their other routes commercial?

Correct me if I'm wrong but from memory the only fully commercial routes hullys currently operate is route 6 all other routes are either part or fully subsided by DCC (I dont think there's any SYPTE)

 

[mayneway]

It is to be hoped that by getting rid of the expensive new vehicles, and any other measures, will adjust things enough for them to continue trading successfully.

The vehicles are not expensive. Minstrel virtually gives them away, and in most cases with subsidised and contracted work it can be better to lease or rent vehicles than it can be to own, especially when you’re leasing new vehicles with warranties. The only downside is ADL have gone from a response time of 48 hours to around 10 days now.

 

[Fokx]

The vehicles are not expensive. Minstrel virtually gives them away

(Ps. The name leasing company is Mistral)

 

[pjnathanail]

Post removed. Admin wish to discriminate as I can’t provide alternative text to the image due to my own disabilities. Apologies to Everybody else who may have found the info interesting,

Coming to this thread a little late, it appears that this post, now deleted, is quite critical to the ongoing discussion.

Can anybody shed some light on what it was / what it said? Presumably an internal announcement from Hulleys?

 

[omnicity4659]

Coming to this thread a little late, it appears that this post, now deleted, is quite critical to the ongoing discussion.

Can anybody shed some light on what it was / what it said? Presumably an internal announcement from Hulleys?

Was an internal announcement to employees of Go Coach.

Effectively saying that the directors there had taken back control of the company, and that their profits had been funding Hulleys. Also advising that no Christmas bonuses would be available, but a Christmas dinner would be available at a later date.

 

[pjnathanail]

Was an internal announcement to employees of Go Coach.

Effectively saying that the directors there had taken back control of the company, and that their profits had been funding Hulleys. Also advising that no Christmas bonuses would be available, but a Christmas dinner would be available at a later date.

Interesting. Many thanks for that. Not quite sure how they can say that, because Companies House still lists Alf Crofts and Modeldart (the owner of Hulleys) as owning Go-Coach, but in fairness you do get 28 days to update such matters so maybe the change has happened behind the scenes but not yet been formally notified.

 

[m79900]

I also said that for now it was 'business as usual at gocoach, but the same may not be said for Hulleys'

 

[derbybusdepot]

The more immediate question is what will replace the e200 mmcs?

A solo and an e400 have returned from Go Coach this week after being there some time having work done. There is also a 60 plate ex Stagecoach London Solo.

I would think at least 2 more additional vehicles will be needed to replace the remaining e200mmcs.

 

[richard13]

I don't think it has been noted but on 20 Dec the loan secured on Henry Hulleys & Sons Ltd was paid off in full. They have no secured loans now.
Similarly, the Go-Coachhire Ltd loan was also paid off on the same date and so something has / is happening.

Hulleys Filing History

 

[tram21]

There are late-notice service changes coming in on 12th January.

I'm unsure what else this entails, but it's confirmed the Sunday 257c service will be withdrawn. I imagine other services will be involved, most likely in an attempt to save the company.

 

[mayneway]

(Ps. The name leasing company is Mistral)

Yeah autocorrect on my phone. Apologies.

 

[m79900]

How much do bus companies make from contract routes? Presumably enough to make a profit otherwise they wouldn't bother.

 

[mayneway]

I don't think it has been noted but on 20 Dec the loan secured on Henry Hulleys & Sons Ltd was paid off in full. They have no secured loans now.
Similarly, the Go-Coachhire Ltd loan was also paid off on the same date and so something has / is happening.

Hulleys Filing History

View attachment 171794

Clearing all debt. Returning rented vehicles and separating other entity’s or companies owned by the same owners potentially says they are looking to cease trading and walk away or ‘tidy’ things up for a possible buy out/takeover!

 

[Leedsbusman]

Clearing all debt. Returning rented vehicles and separating other entity’s or companies owned by the same owners potentially says they are looking to cease trading and walk away or ‘tidy’ things up for a possible buy out/takeover!

Clearing all debt doesn’t seem to be an indicator of financial problems though.

 

[Trainman40083]

How much do bus companies make from contract routes? Presumably enough to make a profit otherwise they wouldn't bother.

Let us say you could probably make a small return , with less risk than commercial services in some areas. But of course, should costs rise higher than planned, you can leave yourself exposed, unless the tender allows for such variation.

 

[mayneway]

Clearing all debt doesn’t seem to be an indicator of financial problems though.

Didn’t say it was.
Normally when debt is completely cleared it’s an indicator something is about to happen, either a simply ceasing trading or possible sale or takeover by other parties.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Dec 2024 ==

Let us say you could probably make a small return , with less risk than commercial services in some areas. But of course, should costs rise higher than planned, you can leave yourself exposed, unless the tender allows for such variation.

You can do well out of contracted services depending what part of the country you’re in. Operators like Stotts in Oldham gave up everything they did commercially to focus on contracted services to TFGM and they make a decent return.

Derby county council arnt the best though. They expect everything to be on a shoestring.

Hulley’s biggest problem will have been their location and recruiting drivers. When you’re constantly dropping services for ‘operational issues’ it affects reliability and customers start looking for other options. It doesn’t help that they have a terrible attitude towards customer service!

 

[JKP]

How much do bus companies make from contract routes? Presumably enough to make a profit otherwise they wouldn't bother.

Contracts often make a reasonable return in the first year but this often diminishes over the length of the contract due to increasing costs but also whether the contracting authority gives an inflation allowance. This of course does not always cover the increase in costs incurred. In my experience many Councils now let contracts over 3 or 5 years at a fixed cost per annum with no increase. I don’t know about DCC but assume contracts are let where the operator bears the risk.

 

[Trainman40083]

Contracts often make a reasonable return in the first year but this often diminishes over the length of the contract due to increasing costs but also whether the contracting authority gives an inflation allowance. This of course does not always cover the increase in costs incurred. In my experience many Councils now let contracts over 3 or 5 years at a fixed cost per annum with no increase. I don’t know about DCC but assume contracts are let where the operator bears the risk.

Gets interesting then if you got a massive increase in fuel prices in year 2, and industries that offer better pay and conditions in different market sectors.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Dec 2024 ==

The vehicles are not expensive. Minstrel virtually gives them away, and in most cases with subsidised and contracted work it can be better to lease or rent vehicles than it can be to own, especially when you’re leasing new vehicles with warranties. The only downside is ADL have gone from a response time of 48 hours to around 10 days now.

Interesting about the response time extension. So what does that convey? There is an increase in warranty repairs across ADL users, buses are less reliable than they were, manufacturing costs have been cut (and shows up in increased failures). So, you could see another manufacturer with a, as cheap, product, with better quality, less warranty repairs come in and take future business. But what would be a worry is, if that response time was 10 days, what would happen with an operator who could not run their advertised services without those buses?

 

[mayneway]

Interesting about the response time extension. So what does that convey? There is an increase in warranty repairs across ADL users, buses are less reliable than they were, manufacturing costs have been cut (and shows up in increased failures). So, you could see another manufacturer with a, as cheap, product, with better quality, less warranty repairs come in and take future business. But what would be a worry is, if that response time was 10 days, what would happen with an operator who could not run their advertised services without those buses?

It demonstrates the build quality is very poor.
There’s always going to be teething problems with new vehicles but to have vehicles parked up for 10 days is frustrating.

We have been crippled with the sensitive edge door system on our vehicles with several buses now having the same issue.

Must be extremely difficult for smaller operators.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Didn’t say it was.
Normally when debt is completely cleared it’s an indicator something is about to happen, either a simply ceasing trading or possible sale or takeover by other parties.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Dec 2024 ==

didn’t say you did.
Normally a charge would be settled as part of a transaction rather than before it. This could simply be a routine final instalment settled for all you know!

 

[mayneway]

didn’t say you did.
Normally a charge would be settled as part of a transaction rather than before it. This could simply be a routine final instalment settled for all you know!

It could well be, but when you put it with the internal memo sent to Go-coach employees, and the fact Go-coach’s loan was also paid off in full at the same time it *could* indicate some interesting activities in the near future.

 

[Trainman40083]

It demonstrates the build quality is very poor.
There’s always going to be teething problems with new vehicles but to have vehicles parked up for 10 days is frustrating.

We have been crippled with the sensitive edge door system on our vehicles with several buses now having the same issue.

Must be extremely difficult for smaller operators.

Yes, extremely difficult... If passengers lose service reliability, it could be very damaging for the bus operators, in terms of potential future business.

 

[ChrisC]

Hulley’s biggest problem will have been their location and recruiting drivers. When you’re constantly dropping services for ‘operational issues’ it affects reliability and customers start looking for other options. It doesn’t help that they have a terrible attitude towards customer service!

It isn’t just the cancelling of services due to operational issues which drives customers away. I don’t use many routes operated by Hulley’s but I find the regular changes of routes and timetables over the last few years confusing and often inconvenient. They don’t seem to give a route or timetable chance to settle down and attract passengers before changing it. Even more popular routes like the 55, 170 and 257 seem to have constant changes. What works for a passenger one month has gone the next so people can’t be sure that their bus to work is still going to be running even a few weeks ahead.

 

[Trainman40083]

It isn’t just the cancelling of services due to operational issues which drives customers away. I don’t use many routes operated by Hulley’s but I find the regular changes of routes and timetables over the last few years confusing and often inconvenient. They don’t seem to give a route or timetable chance to settle down and attract passengers before changing it. Even more popular routes like the 55, 170 and 257 seem to have constant changes. What works for a passenger one month has gone the next so people can’t be sure that their bus to work is still going to be running even a few weeks ahead.

That regular change could be a sign of an operator trying to attract new business; maybe improve service reliability. As an operator strives to reduce costs, recovery time gets squeezed. As the saying goes "if it ain't working, it ain't earning".

 

[mayneway]

That regular change could be a sign of an operator trying to attract new business; maybe improve service reliability. As an operator strives to reduce costs, recovery time gets squeezed. As the saying goes "if it ain't working, it ain't earning".

I think it has a lot more to do with juggling very limited resources and trying to make them work to their best, the problem is when you launch a new route or make major changes to an existing route you have to allow time for things to settle and grow, and this is their problem - they don’t!

They just come across as a very Amateurish outfit - enthusiasts playing at running buses maybe?