Northern Cancellations - The stations that came out worst

[nr758123]

Is there a link to the interview anywhere? I feel like writing to the BBC on the grounds of factual accuracy (or lack of)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002621w

1h13’40”, interview with Henri Murison, Director of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership.

2h10’40”, interview with Heidi Alexander

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Aren't there some of those in store? I'm sure that there's a route they could be used on to free up some 195s. Leeds-Chester?
Whoops. In that case there's even less reason not to send them to XC.
Is there a link to the interview anywhere? I feel like writing to the BBC on the grounds of factual accuracy (or lack of)

It will be in here:

Today - 20/12/2024 - BBC Sounds

News and current affairs, including Sports Desk, Weather and Thought for the Day.

www.bbc.co.uk

The interview was after the 8am news, so around 0810.

I think the facts were that on the day the union settlement was made, it was above the then inflation rate.
Of course the rate was much higher than that in the previous 6-18 months.

The 6 unallocated 221s went off-lease from Avanti less than a week ago...
XC themselves want to use the incoming recently upgraded ex-Avanti 221s to allow their existing 22x to go for refurbishment, so no immediate increase in the working fleet is likely.
Northern doesn't want another zoo of micro-fleets.

 

[43066]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002621w

1h13’40”, interview with Henri Murison, Director of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership.

2h10’40”, interview with Heidi Alexander

I can’t say I’d personally describe the interview with Heidi Alexander as a “car crash”, as the OP suggested. There were some fairly silly questions in the early part of the interview, including irrelevant references to fax machines, and she made a pretty decent fist of explaining complex issues in an understandable (to the layman) way.

Clearly there isn’t going to be an overnight fix, and this Xmas will be particularly bad, but there’s scope for things to improve in the new year as rest day workers return.

 

[Krokodil]

The 6 unallocated 221s went off-lease from Avanti less than a week ago...

Two Voyagers were stored some time ago before they went to GC. They should have gone straight to XC. The remaining Voyagers may have only just come off lease, but as the DfT has no intention of letting XC have any more it doesn‘t matter, they won't even get them eventually.

 

[Confused52]

I can’t say I’d personally describe the interview with Heidi Alexander as a “car crash”, as the OP suggested. There were some fairly silly questions in the early part of the interview, including irrelevant references to fax machines, and she made a pretty decent fist of explaining complex issues in an understandable (to the layman) way.

Clearly there isn’t going to be an overnight fix, and this Xmas will be particularly bad, but there’s scope for things to improve in the new year as rest day workers return.

I would expect that it will not change until after the end of the tax year when they stop paying higher rate tax on RDW payments

 

[Blackpool boy]

Off-peak Friday, National railcard etc. Take your pick.

A fares sweetener is the only thing that could be done quickly, and it will buy the Government time to be able to point to something nationally while they sort out this regional issue.

Theres no point doing fares gimmicks to get people to use the railway if they are not going to run the trains for them to use. You would just be giving the money back in delay repay and annoying people even more

 

[yorksrob]

Theres no point doing fares gimmicks to get people to use the railway if they are not going to run the trains for them to use. You would just be giving the money back in delay repay and annoying people even more

I see your point, but as I mentioned earlier, a fares improvement could work politically over a wider area (buying time to sort out the NW).

Also, a genuine fares improvement such as off-peak reform or a national railcard would not be a gimmick, unlike the various gimmicky stunts recent Governments have favoured, such as flash sales, limited time fares sales on limited routes etc.

 

[Blackpool boy]

But the gimmicky sales are NOT going to get the trains running. they can do that after they have sorted out the mess that Northern are currently in - then gain more custom that way to pay for it

 

[yorksrob]

But the gimmicky sales are NOT going to get the trains running. they can do that after they have sorted out the mess that Northern are currently in - then gain more custom that way to pay for it

The trains are running ok in most of the country. Genuine fares innovation (as opposed to gimmicky sales) can provide a positive political message nationally while the problems in the NW are sorted out.

(You calling genuine fares innovation "gimmicky sales" does not make them so).

You @Blackpool boy might still have to put up with lousy sunday services for a while - but wouldn't it sweeten the pill if you were able to benefit the rest of the week from the benefits of a national railcard (as an example) ? It would me.

 

[D6975]

So 18 Voyagers (plus however many Meridians soon) that could be very useful to XC will be sat in warm storage somewhere.

It looks like the meridians are going north of the border to replace HSTs.

 

[Blackpool boy]

The trains are running ok in most of the country. Genuine fares innovation (as opposed to gimmicky sales) can provide a positive political message nationally while the problems in the NW are sorted out.

(You calling genuine fares innovation "gimmicky sales" does not make them so).

You @Blackpool boy might still have to put up with lousy sunday services for a while - but wouldn't it sweeten the pill if you were able to benefit the rest of the week from the benefits of a national railcard (as an example) ? It would me.

But this thread is about Northern Cancellations.

I guess im lucky to have a 2 together railcard and me and her are off to york tomorrow for 50 quid for 2 which is very good we think. we do it often - but they better get us home too.

And to be honest the rest of the week i have to go to work so nothing else would benefit me

 

[yorksrob]

But this thread is about Northern Cancellations.

I guess im lucky to have a 2 together railcard and me and her are off to york tomorrow for 50 quid for 2 which is very good we think. we do it often - but they better get us home too.

And to be honest the rest of the week i have to go to work so nothing else would benefit me

This thread is also about the Government's reaction to it and the effect.

This is clearly a negative story for the Government as well (the thread is based on a Government interview), so it's worthwhile to contemplate how it could mitigate the effects (and possibly provide some benefits to those passengers in the affected areas even if they don't currently have a railcard).

 

[skyhigh]

Aren't there some of those in store? I'm sure that there's a route they could be used on to free up some 195s. Leeds-Chester?

There are 4 units stored, 2 of which have been stored for quite a while now.

Given the reliability of them, you'd be lucky to get 2 out in service at any one time. And if one failed, you'd have no compatible stock to rescue it anywhere nearby.

There is no space at Neville Hill or Newton Heath to maintain them.

The Chester trains interwork with the express Man Vics. In any case, Chesters are worked by Manchester Victoria, Leeds, Huddersfield, Liverpool and York crews. You would have hundreds of crew to train and a nightmare maintaining traction knowledge.

An unreliable microfleet with zero commonality to the rest of the Northern fleet is a recipe for utter chaos.

 

[Blackpool boy]

This thread is also about the Government's reaction to it and the effect.

This is clearly a negative story for the Government as well (the thread is based on a Government interview), so it's worthwhile to contemplate how it could mitigate the effects (and possibly provide some benefits to those passengers in the affected areas even if they don't currently have a railcard).

I simply do not understand how offering friday freeness or a national railcard is going to help put trains on the tracks for people to use though.

 

[yorksrob]

I simply do not understand how offering friday freeness or a national railcard is going to help put trains on the tracks for people to use though.

It's not. I never said it would.

The point is to provide political headroom while the Government sorts it out.

It would, however, provide a small compensation to those in the North West suffering from a degraded service.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I simply do not understand how offering friday freeness or a national railcard is going to help put trains on the tracks for people to use though.

He isn't suggesting it will. But the industry needs some good press and to be seen to be doing something while sorting out the boring stuff that is hard to explain and will sort those issues out.

 

[yorksrob]

He isn't suggesting it will. But the industry needs some good press and to be seen to be doing something while sorting out the boring stuff that is hard to explain and will sort those issues out.

Thank you @YorkshireBear You put it better than I did.

 

[richardderby]

Northern are absolutely diabolical.. Burnham needs to create a bee train network.. put my elderly dad on the Buxton train at 1550 yesterday, and they cancelled everything for two hours.. thank goodness for the 199 bus.. dreadful company

 

[yorksrob]

I don't know what it is about Skipton depot, but they seem to run the sort of "boringly reliable" service that Northern customers elsewhere can only dream of.

Well done !

 

[Krokodil]

I don't know what it is about Skipton depot, but they seem to run the sort of "boringly reliable" service that Northern customers elsewhere can only dream of.

Well done !

Being on the former RRNE/ATN side helps, most of the issues are at the former FNW depots (though some east side depots are short-staffed too)

 

[yorksrob]

Being on the former RRNE/ATN side helps, most of the issues are at the former FNW depots (though some east side depots are short-staffed too)

Yes, this is it. I used to think of it as an East/West issue, but the Hallam line has had some issues recently as well.

 

[Minnietheminx]

Yes, this is it. I used to think of it as an East/West issue, but the Hallam line has had some issues recently as well

In fairness to Northern, one of the most recent problems on the Hallam line was the sinkhole at Low Barugh last Friday. Not their fault, but very badly handled by Northern.

I had the misfortune to be sat on the 1638 Lincoln train at Leeds, and when the conductor was on the intercom telling passengers that trains were only stopping at Wakefield *Westgate* and Meadowhall (directing Barnsley passengers to catch the one-an-hour Huddersfield service from Meadowhall) someone on the platform was bellowing something about replacement bus services from Wakefield *Kirkgate*. Not exactly helpful.

If anyone from Northern is reading this, can I suggest that they at least co-ordinate their messaging to passengers? I don't know about anyone else, but at the end of a long journey, the last thing I need is for platform and train crew to be directly contradicting each other. That's the sort of behaviour that only leads to anger and frustration

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The RMT used to use the term "basket cases" in their missives on a regular basis during their protracted strikes in the area of Northern. Have all those "basket-cases" now gone away and been replaced with new ones?

 

[BrummieBobby]

The problems on many Northern routes reflect the wider problems on the network.

There are simply far too few essential, front line staff in a variety of grades.

 

[YorkshireBear]

In fairness to Northern, one of the most recent problems on the Hallam line was the sinkhole at Low Barugh last Friday. Not their fault, but very badly handled by Northern.

I had the misfortune to be sat on the 1638 Lincoln train at Leeds, and when the conductor was on the intercom telling passengers that trains were only stopping at Wakefield *Westgate* and Meadowhall (directing Barnsley passengers to catch the one-an-hour Huddersfield service from Meadowhall) someone on the platform was bellowing something about replacement bus services from Wakefield *Kirkgate*. Not exactly helpful.

If anyone from Northern is reading this, can I suggest that they at least co-ordinate their messaging to passengers? I don't know about anyone else, but at the end of a long journey, the last thing I need is for platform and train crew to be directly contradicting each other. That's the sort of behaviour that only leads to anger and frustration

While that did cause a few days of excitement. The cancellation of Sheffield crewed services in Leeds is well well above any of the services crewed from Leeds, York or Skipton. And has been since I moved to a station on the hallam line over a year ago (i.e when I started paying attention). The Knottingley services are a much safer bet.

 

[yorksrob]

In fairness to Northern, one of the most recent problems on the Hallam line was the sinkhole at Low Barugh last Friday. Not their fault, but very badly handled by Northern.

I had the misfortune to be sat on the 1638 Lincoln train at Leeds, and when the conductor was on the intercom telling passengers that trains were only stopping at Wakefield *Westgate* and Meadowhall (directing Barnsley passengers to catch the one-an-hour Huddersfield service from Meadowhall) someone on the platform was bellowing something about replacement bus services from Wakefield *Kirkgate*. Not exactly helpful.

If anyone from Northern is reading this, can I suggest that they at least co-ordinate their messaging to passengers? I don't know about anyone else, but at the end of a long journey, the last thing I need is for platform and train crew to be directly contradicting each other. That's the sort of behaviour that only leads to anger and frustration

Fair play, but they had some issues before then as well .

I see a few cancellations on my commute as well.

 

[Adam0984]

Sheffield depot suffered from a shortage of drivers after a few left, retired plus the usual illness but that seemed to right itself with new drivers becoming productive and RDW being introduced, so things were good for a while until now Sheffield is suffering from a conductor shortage in the past few weeks

 

[slipdigby]

Northern are absolutely diabolical.. Burnham needs to create a bee train network.. put my elderly dad on the Buxton train at 1550 yesterday, and they cancelled everything for two hours.. thank goodness for the 199 bus.. dreadful company

Painting everything yellow and sticking a Bee on the side is the local equivalent of shouting "nationalisation" as the go-to solution to all the railway's problems.

 

[Djgr]

Painting everything yellow and sticking a Bee on the side is the local equivalent of shouting "nationalisation" as the go-to solution to all the railway's problems.

Nationalisation is only the first step...but a very necessary one.

 

[high camera]

I travel very regular by train mainly from Manchester to London and I also make extensive use of SE commuter routes. Yesterday I tried to use the hourly Manchester Victoria to Clitheroe service:- the one I wanted was cancelled !! Not many options, so rather than freeze to death in Victoria I caught the Blackburn train that runs via Todmorden, logic being if the next train is cancelled I’m near to home (Ribble valley) Anyway by the time we had trundled around most of North east Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire and East Lancashire I found myself waiting at Blackburn for the next Clitheroe train out of Victoria !!
OK not the most exciting story in the world but the reason I share it is that I found myself constantly comparing the South East with the shambolic, slow speed, under invested, shabby stations, over crowded noisy smelly cramped ancient units up here. The difference is actually quite shocking and a disgrace.
For those that like railways to be old and historic don’t waste your time visiting preserved railways just spend the day with Northern. The third world is alive and kicking here in one of the wealthiest nations in the world !! Rant over, Happy Xmas everybody