Statutory declaration

[Rob_8567]

I got on a northern rail train that was earlier than the one stated on my ticket, I apologised to the ticket inspector and purchased another ticket on the train at the time. I then stupidly left this ticket on the train and was stopped at the platform. I explained what had happened and showed the bank statement showing I had purchased a ticket, he was very understanding and explained that he would have to give me a fine, but if I called the number that would be on the fine and explained what had happened it would be overturned and I wouldn’t pay.

I then forgot about it all together after receiving no correspondence, fast forward 6 months I receive a letter stating I have been found guilty of fare evasion in my absence and I received a court ordered fine of £500. I initially panicked and paid this as it was quite a threatening letter, I since spoke to HMCTS and was advised to appeal the case and sign a statutory declaration. I have the date to sign it however reading online I am scared of what might happen if I go to court and lose again. I am a uni student and am now looking at having to pay money I don’t have for legal representation, trains, and a hotel in Preston to both sign the declaration and then appear in court and potentially lose. Any help would be greatly appreciated to understand where I stand with at all and what the best course of action would be. Thank you.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

This reads to me as though you were hoping that if you buried your head in the sand that the matter would go away.

You travelled on a train with an invalid ticket
You were sold a new ticket to regularise the matter (we've seen people prosecuted for this before)
You left the new ticket on the train and had details taken by an inspector at your destination
You were then convicted of fare evasion in your absence

Northern would almost certainly written to you asking for your version of events. Having received no response they would then have sent you court papers.

In terms of where things are now, a Statutory Declaration effectively has the effect of turning back the clock so that the case can be re-heard by the court. Before the case is reheard you should then engage with the Northern's Debt Recovery and Prosecutions Department to see if they will agree an out of court settlement in return for dropping the case. If Northern refuse to offer an out of court settlement then you would almost certainly be found guilty again, although the fine would likely be lower.

Don't underestimate the effort you will need to put in to contact Northern's Debt Recovery & Prosecutions Department. You must get on the case straight away and not leave it for another day.

 

[some bloke]

I am scared of what might happen if I go to court and lose again. I am a uni student and am now looking at having to pay money I don’t have for legal representation, trains, and a hotel in Preston to both sign the declaration and then appear in court and potentially lose.

When did you learn of the criminal proceedings?

If you can go to a solicitor and pay the £5 fee to have them witness the declaration, then send it to the court by recorded delivery to arrive before the 21 days are up, you can avoid the court dealing with the reopened case straightaway. That should give time to try to get the company to settle.

If you do this, you need to make sure that the form is correctly filled in.

 

[WesternLancer]

When did you learn of the criminal proceedings?

If you can go to a solicitor and pay the £5 fee to have them witness the declaration, then send it to the court by recorded delivery to arrive before the 21 days are up, you can avoid the court dealing with the reopened case straightaway. That should give time to try to get the company to settle.

If you do this, you need to make sure that the form is correctly filled in.

Exactly this. And cheaper than going to Preston in person to the court.

But would say to the OP I trust you have learned a valuable lesson about getting the correct ticket and not discarding it on the train before you get off and leave the station. Your actions have cost you a living time and money sadly.

 

[some bloke]

You can write to Northern before you make the declaration, though they are unlikely to commit themselves to a settlement before they are formally notified by the court that the case is reopened.

Please put a draft on here so people can comment. Your case is unusual becase of the two offences.

 

[Rob_8567]

Hello,
Thank you for the prompt replies. I learned of the proceedings around march of this year and have since been waiting to hear from Preston courts about the statutory declaration. I have been given a date of mid January to sign a non guilty statutory declaration, this was off advice given by HMCTS however reading here I am aware that this was the wrong move and should have accepted guilt. I am extremely worried about how to proceed. Can I pull the statutory declaration and accept the money as lost. How serious is a prosecution for my future?

 

[WesternLancer]

Having said all that. You will get good help on here to take this through the various stages to untangle this mess.

Step one is get the SD done via local solicitor (make it clear you are not asking them to represent you in resolving the matter with the rail company unless you want to pay them the costs of doing all that work which will likely be c£500+) you just want them to submit the SD.

Then get on to Northern’s prosecutions team in writing seeking to resolve it outside of court (do not waste time contacting their customer services who can not help with any of this).

Get your draft letter’s wording checked here for accuracy before you send it or e mail it.

 

[some bloke]

So it would be good to take care in the drafting. But keep in mind that they prosecuted after getting no communication from you, so hopefully you can settle after apologising, which is normal.

 

[Rob_8567]

Hello,
Thank you for the prompt replies. I learned of the proceedings around march of this year and have since been waiting to hear from Preston courts about the statutory declaration. I have been given a date of January 13th to sign a non guilty statutory declaration, this was off advice given by HMCTS however reading here I am aware that this was the wrong move and should have accepted guilt. I am extremely worried about how to proceed. Can I pull the statutory declaration and accept the money as lost. How serious is a prosecution for my future?

Just to clarify I understand now that they were right in prosecution but I genuinely received no correspondence from them and would have been more than happy to pay the initial fine. Have I ruined chances of out of court settlement through pleading non guilty? I will work on a letter and get it posted as soon as possible. Again I appreciate all the help.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,
Thank you for the prompt replies. I learned of the proceedings around march of this year and have since been waiting to hear from Preston courts about the statutory declaration. I have been given a date of January 13th to sign a non guilty statutory declaration, this was off advice given by HMCTS however reading here I am aware that this was the wrong move and should have accepted guilt. I am extremely worried about how to proceed. Can I pull the statutory declaration and accept the money as lost. How serious is a prosecution for my future?

No you don’t need to accept guilt at court just yet. That will land you with a minor criminal record that’s best avoided.

What you need to do is use the SD procedure to buy time to secure an out of court settlement with Northern Trains.

Doing the SD at the court is not the best route as they may then send it immediately back to trial where you would be found guilty and have no chance to negotiate with northern for a settlement and get the case withdrawn.

As I understand it you won’t be signing a ‘not guilty SD’, just an SD to reset the case. Then when the case is re heard you would be asked to plead guilty or not guilty. Your objective as I understand it is to get things resolved before it gets to the point you need to plead.

You can get the SD paperwork from the gov.uk website I think. Have a look at that and post any questions here. There are a few members here who give very good advice on magistrates court process who can probably help give you good guidance on how best to do the SD.

Also if you are a student do check with your student union advice service to see if they can offer any help with this or if they a deal with a local solicitor who can give you free or reduced rates for any help required. It’s worth asking the SU about that asap.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2024 ==


——————

Below is a reply to a message from op that seems to have now disappeared: message was about how to do the SD:

Good question! Someone here will know.

Probably by downloading the paperwork. Filling it in yourself. Getting it checked here then taking it to a solicitor as per post #3, and then sending it recorded delivery to the court within the next couple of weeks so as to be well ahead of the date the court gave you in January.

 

[Rob_8567]

I have been given a date to attend the court for the statutory declaration. How do I go about avoiding this and instead doing it through post?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2024 ==

Dear whomever it may concern,



In march of 2023 I travelled from Liverpool to Preston on a train that arrived earlier than the one stated on my ticket. I took this train and was asked to buy a new one by a ticket officer on the train. I bought a new one but stupidly left it on the train and therefore failed to present a ticket at the station. I can prove I purchased this ticket with bank transfers. I was told I would be fined as a result, however I did not receive any correspondence about the fine, and the matter was ultimately taken to court in my absence. I intend to sign a statutory decleration in January to be reheard in court regarding the matter.



I accept fault, and I am sincerely sorry for my actions. It was a first time offence, and I would have happily paid the fine had I received it. I wondered if the matter could be settled outside of court following my submission of the statutory declaration. I understand that this matter has caused costs and valuable time for the company, and hope a settlement of the original £470 and any additional charges the company see fit would be appropriate to amend the case.



Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I thank you for your consideration.



Kind regards,

xxxx

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2024 ==

I am at university in Scotland and was told my student union that due to it being english law they would be unable to assist.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have been given a date to attend the court for the statutory declaration. How do I go about avoiding this and instead doing it through post?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2024 ==

Dear whomever it may concern,



In march of 2022 I travelled from Liverpool to Preston on a train that arrived earlier than the one stated on my ticket. I took this train and was asked to buy a new one by a ticket officer on the train. I bought a new one but stupidly left it on the train and therefore failed to present a ticket at the station. I can prove I purchased this ticket with bank transfers. I was told I would be fined as a result, however I did not receive any correspondence about the fine, and the matter was ultimately taken to court in my absence. I intend to sign a statutory decleration in January to be reheard in court regarding the matter.



I accept fault, and I am sincerely sorry for my actions. It was a first time offence, and I would have happily paid the fine had I received it. I wondered if the matter could be settled outside of court following my submission of the statutory declaration. I understand that this matter has caused costs and valuable time for the company, and hope a settlement of the original £470 and any additional charges the company see fit would be appropriate to amend the case.



Any help would be greatly appreciated, and I thank you for your consideration.



Kind regards,

xxxx

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2024 ==

I am at university in Scotland and was told my student union that due to it being english law they would be unable to assist.

This draft isn’t your immediate priority quite yet. You need to get the SD process underway first.
Hang fire for a day or so for more advice on here. Don’t send that draft anywhere yet.

Ref Scottish student union. That’s a shame but I can see the problem as you outline.

 

[Rob_8567]

This draft isn’t your immediate priority quite yet. You need to get the SD process underway first.
Hang fire for a day or so for more advice on here. Don’t send that draft anywhere yet.

Ref Scottish student union. That’s a shame but I can see the problem as you outline.

Thank you. I have emailed the magistrates court and asked that a template statutory decleration be sent instead of the physical meeting to accommodate for my university and avoiding the travel and hotel costs etc. I will look to contact solicitors in the morning the make sure I can get this signed and officially notarised to be sent as soon as possible.

 

[Rob_8567]

Some info that would probably be useful:

“on request by an officer or servant of the railway company, to produce and deliver up a ticket showing that your fare was paid or to pay the fare. Contrary to section 5(1) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.”

 

[furlong]

Some info that would probably be useful:

“on request by an officer or servant of the railway company, to produce and deliver up a ticket showing that your fare was paid or to pay the fare. Contrary to section 5(1) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.”

Oh! That is VERY important information!

Do you still have the paperwork you were given at the time?
Was it for a specific amount of money and did you offer to pay it to them on the spot (even if they wouldn't accept payment)?

Did you offer to buy a replacement ticket when this happened (even if they wouldn't sell you one)?

Do you have any idea why it was the letters did not reach you?

Did you give your correct name and an address where they would be able to contact you at the time?

Can you look at any more of the paperwork - we want to know if it says "Single Justice Procedure" on it. You might need to ask the court the question "Were these proceedings against me initiated under the Single Justice Procedure?"

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

There are several things to untangle now.

1. Train companies cannot prosecute people under 5(1) of RORA using the "Single Justice Procedure". They CAN do this using other procedures. They were caught doing this the wrong way and the courts are currently going through a process of voiding tens of thousands of convictions. So it's imperative to know whether or not your case falls within this category.

2. They have misquoted the offence. If you look it up yourself you'll see that you are only guilty if you fail to do ALL of three things - not showing a ticket AND refusing to pay for a ticket AND not giving your name and address. If you offered to pay again on the spot or were not given that option or you gave your name and address, you aren't guilty. The precise interaction may need to be analysed here to work that out.

3. The SD situation may need reconsidering once it's clearer where you stand in relation to 1 and 2.

 

[Rob_8567]

Oh! That is VERY important information!

Do you still have the paperwork you were given at the time?
Was it for a specific amount of money and did you offer to pay it to them on the spot (even if they wouldn't accept payment)?

Did you offer to buy a replacement ticket when this happened (even if they wouldn't sell you one)?

Do you have any idea why it was the letters did not reach you?

Did you give your correct name and an address where they would be able to contact you at the time?

Can you look at any more of the paperwork - we want to know if it says "Single Justice Procedure" on it. You might need to ask the court the question "Were these proceedings against me initiated under the Single Justice Procedure?"

Hello,

Unfortunately because I didn’t receive any letters before the further steps notice I don’t have anymore paperwork. I’m not sure why I received no correspondence but seem to remember the officer having trouble finding my address on the drop down menu but details are blurry with it being so long ago. I was told I would receive a fine (unspecified amount if I remember correctly) and that I would just have to phone to get it cleared and wouldn’t have to pay anything. I don’t believe I received any paper there and then but was just told I would receive a fine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

Oh! That is VERY important information!

Do you still have the paperwork you were given at the time?
Was it for a specific amount of money and did you offer to pay it to them on the spot (even if they wouldn't accept payment)?

Did you offer to buy a replacement ticket when this happened (even if they wouldn't sell you one)?

Do you have any idea why it was the letters did not reach you?

Did you give your correct name and an address where they would be able to contact you at the time?

Can you look at any more of the paperwork - we want to know if it says "Single Justice Procedure" on it. You might need to ask the court the question "Were these proceedings against me initiated under the Single Justice Procedure?"

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

There are several things to untangle now.

1. Train companies cannot prosecute people under 5(1) of RORA using the "Single Justice Procedure". They CAN do this using other procedures. They were caught doing this the wrong way and the courts are currently going through a process of voiding tens of thousands of convictions. So it's imperative to know whether or not your case falls within this category.

2. They have misquoted the offence. If you look it up yourself you'll see that you are only guilty if you fail to do ALL of three things - not showing a ticket AND refusing to pay for a ticket AND not giving your name and address. If you offered to pay again on the spot or were not given that option or you gave your name and address, you aren't guilty. The precise interaction may need to be analysed here to work that out.

3. The SD situation may need reconsidering once it's clearer where you stand in relation to 1 and 2.

I’m not sure if it’s of any relevance or if it’s the same thing but most my email correspondence regarding court was through the single justice service email

 

[furlong]

Well start off by finding out if this was Single Justice Procedure or not. Ask the court tomorrow if you don't know. If it was, then you can follow up by asking the court if your case was included in this: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...anglia-single-justice-procedure-b1171736.html

 

[Rob_8567]

Hello,

Unfortunately because I didn’t receive any letters before the further steps notice I don’t have anymore paperwork. I’m not sure why I received no correspondence but seem to remember the officer having trouble finding my address on the drop down menu but details are blurry with it being so long ago. I was told I would receive a fine (unspecified amount if I remember correctly) and that I would just have to phone to get it cleared and wouldn’t have to pay anything. I don’t believe I received any paper there and then but was just told I would receive a fine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==


I’m not sure if it’s of any relevance or if it’s the same thing but most my email correspondence regarding court was through the single justice service email

Well start off by finding out if this was Single Justice Procedure or not. Ask the court tomorrow if you don't know. If it was, then you can follow up by asking the court if your case was included in this: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...anglia-single-justice-procedure-b1171736.html

hi, upon further digging my original reference number is followed by SJP so I would assume it would fall under that but i will call to confirm. Thank you for pointing this out, great help.

 

[furlong]

So then if it was SJP, the statutory declaration may well be the wrong thing to do at this stage, and, after confirming your case is on their list, the answer might just be to wait while they process it amongst the tens of thousands.

 

[Rob_8567]

Oh! That is VERY important information!

Do you still have the paperwork you were given at the time?
Was it for a specific amount of money and did you offer to pay it to them on the spot (even if they wouldn't accept payment)?

Did you offer to buy a replacement ticket when this happened (even if they wouldn't sell you one)?

Do you have any idea why it was the letters did not reach you?

Did you give your correct name and an address where they would be able to contact you at the time?

Can you look at any more of the paperwork - we want to know if it says "Single Justice Procedure" on it. You might need to ask the court the question "Were these proceedings against me initiated under the Single Justice Procedure?"

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

There are several things to untangle now.

1. Train companies cannot prosecute people under 5(1) of RORA using the "Single Justice Procedure". They CAN do this using other procedures. They were caught doing this the wrong way and the courts are currently going through a process of voiding tens of thousands of convictions. So it's imperative to know whether or not your case falls within this category.

2. They have misquoted the offence. If you look it up yourself you'll see that you are only guilty if you fail to do ALL of three things - not showing a ticket AND refusing to pay for a ticket AND not giving your name and address. If you offered to pay again on the spot or were not given that option or you gave your name and address, you aren't guilty. The precise interaction may need to be analysed here to work that out.

3. The SD situation may need reconsidering once it's clearer where you stand in relation to 1 and 2.

Great thanks for being so helpful! I will call tomorrow in regards to seeing if my case falls under the ones you linked there. In terms of number 2 deciphering if I had failed to do all of them I honestly couldn’t tell you for the life of me. I was under the understanding that I wouldn’t be paying a fine as per the officer saying so I wouldn’t stand to gain anything from giving the wrong information at the time. I don’t believe I was offered to buy another but rather just explained my situation and told as previously said that I would just have to wait for the fine and get in contact with the contacts presented on the fine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

So then if it was SJP, the statutory declaration may well be the wrong thing to do at this stage, and, after confirming your case is on their list, the answer might just be to wait while they process it amongst the tens of thousands.

My only worry is that I’m not sure if I can pull my statutory declaration now that I have expressed I want to go down that route. Another is that if I do cancel it and find it doesn’t get resolved through the courts with the rest of them I don’t have a leg to stand on as I won’t be eligible to reopen the case a second time.

 

[furlong]

Get the situation from the court first. January gives you plenty of time to find out the facts - don't make any changes to whatever arrangements you put in place for the SD yet.

 

[some bloke]

You can email the court asking for copies of the original paperwork to be emailed to you.

If this was through SJP (ie a "nullity" from the start), Northern can apply to reopen the case and the whole thing could be sorted long before January 13.

The Criminal Procedure Rules say if they want to apply for the case to be reopened under section 142(2) of the Magistrates' Courts Act (as in the thread linked below) they have to do it "as soon as reasonably practicable":

44.3 ...(4) A party who wants the court to exercise its power must—

(a) apply in writing as soon as reasonably practicable after the conviction

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

You can email Northern's prosecution department to let them know the situation - try drpu@northernrailway.co.uk .

Before sending the email you can put a draft on here for comment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

You probably don't need this, but on the misdescription of the offence and the related fact that you're probably innocent under section 5(1):

If the Statement of Facts, and if there is one the witness statement, don't claim that you failed to give your name and address, then they haven't even laid out how you are supposed to be guilty of the offence.

 

[KirkstallOne]

Fairly sure this must have been one of the 28,631 Northern cases quashed on Thursday 28th November at Westminster Magistrates court.

See here for details:

Train company prosecutions

www.gov.uk

In addition to the excellent advice above I would contact the number in that link to advise on your current address. I would expect you to get a letter about this soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

Also see here for reporting on Thursday’s hearing:

More than 28,000 rail fare evasion prosecutions quashed

The prosecutions, brought by Northern Rail and TransPennine Express, were declared ‘null and void’ during a hearing at Westminster Magistrates’ Court.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Rob_8567]

Fairly sure this must have been one of the 28,631 Northern cases quashed on Thursday 28th November at Westminster Magistrates court.

See here for details:

Train company prosecutions

www.gov.uk

In addition to the excellent advice above I would contact the number in that link to advise on your current address. I would expect you to get a letter about this soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2024 ==

Also see here for reporting on Thursday’s hearing:

More than 28,000 rail fare evasion prosecutions quashed

The prosecutions, brought by Northern Rail and TransPennine Express, were declared ‘null and void’ during a hearing at Westminster Magistrates’ Court.

www.standard.co.uk

Thank you for the message. Currently on hold to them to see if I’m on the list and if so what to do about this statutory declaration.

 

[WesternLancer]

So then if it was SJP, the statutory declaration may well be the wrong thing to do at this stage, and, after confirming your case is on their list, the answer might just be to wait while they process it amongst the tens of thousands.

so just to clarify -

a) is the thinking here now that @Rob_8567 's case is one of the many cases from Northern Trains that should not have been brought under the SJPN process, and thus will in due course be quashed along with a great many others?
and that that will be the end of the matter from the OPs point of view?

b) And that the OP will get a refund of the £500 court fine they say they have paid in post #1?

c) I am no expert here but I'm mindful that it is often said on here ref Statutory Declarations that they need to be done promptly after the person learns that they have been prosecuted in their absence without knowing about it. So there fore I am wondering if the OP does not do an SD now / promptly, but simply await the (inevitably slow) process of Northern's cases being quashed, him being informed of that officially ref his own case, and his money refunded, that any opportunity to make an SD is lost during the time of that delay.

Is there thus any value in the OP making their SD in the near future 'just in case' using he cheapest method available to them?

I think the view of experts in this process would be of help here (help to the OP I mean)

d) Furthermore, ref correspondence with the court I would suggest to the OP that:

- this is all done in writing (not by phone)
- consideration be given to doing it by letter, sent in the post with postal tracking to ensure proof of delivery (possibly as well as by e-mail)
- that before sending anything the draft wording is checked by people here to get it as good as it could be to seek clear and unambiguous answers from both the court and indeed, when applicable, Northern Trains

 

[Rob_8567]

so just to clarify -

a) is the thinking here now that @Rob_8567 's case is one of the many cases from Northern Trains that should not have been brought under the SJPN process, and thus will in due course be quashed along with a great many others?
and that that will be the end of the matter from the OPs point of view?

b) And that the OP will get a refund of the £500 court fine they say they have paid in post #1?

c) I am no expert here but I'm mindful that it is often said on here ref Statutory Declarations that they need to be done promptly after the person learns that they have been prosecuted in their absence without knowing about it. So there fore I am wondering if the OP does not do an SD now / promptly, but simply await the (inevitably slow) process of Northern's cases being quashed, him being informed of that officially ref his own case, and his money refunded, that any opportunity to make an SD is lost during the time of that delay.

Is there thus any value in the OP making their SD in the near future 'just in case' using he cheapest method available to them?

I think the view of experts in this process would be of help here (help to the OP I mean)

d) Furthermore, ref correspondence with the court I would suggest to the OP that:

- this is all done in writing (not by phone)
- consideration be given to doing it by letter, sent in the post with postal tracking to ensure proof of delivery (possibly as well as by e-mail)
- that before sending anything the draft wording is checked by people here to get it as good as it could be to seek clear and unambiguous answers from both the court and indeed, when applicable, Northern Trains

Hello, yes all a bit confusing now. HMCTS have refused to tell me if my case falls under the ones being quashed and advice I carry on with the SD. I received a digital copy of the SD today from the courts that I can get notarised. However I am now worried that 1) if I can even pull my SD now having showed interest in doing it - man from HMCTS reckoned the courts had accepted my intent to appeal. And 2) if I pull the SD would it give up any chance at reappearing it if I don’t get my case quashed with the rest.

I now wonder if it would be worth going the SD route, still trying for a settlement and perhaps knowing it was under an SJP northern would be more willing to take a settlement and get rid of my prosecution. Thanks for all the help everyone, a little lost on where to go now.

 

[KirkstallOne]

I think it has actually been quashed now, so the SD won’t be required / valid as there is no case to reopen anymore. However I would proceed with the SD for now as advised by HMCTS.

 

[Rob_8567]

I think it has actually been quashed now, so the SD won’t be required / valid as there is no case to reopen anymore. However I would proceed with the SD for now as advised by HMCTS.

Okay thank you so much for the help. Will contact the actual courts today try get any paperwork I missed, make sure address is up to date and ask if they can inform me related to cases quashed. Will inevitably come back for more help once I know more. Cheers again.

 

[some bloke]

Although Northern say they can't respond to individual queries among the thousands, if this was SJP they may respond to you because you've applied to make the declaration.

 

[KirkstallOne]

Yes worth pursuing with Northern as well. If you have the case number you would hope they can easily say whether it is in the list!