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The thread title is switch to electric vehicles, do we really need electric cars with their £1000 sound systems, touchscreen with satnav, audio, phone dock, automatic boot opening, fancy stitching on the upholstery etc etc when the school run, the trip to the supermarket or hospital or garden centre etc could be covered by a reasonably speedy electric golf caddy.
park in the supermarket, automatic number plate recognition, plug it in, pay for your shopping and 10kw charge at the same time, drive home.
cost for this disposable household item, well not much more than a couple of TVs and a latest iPhone
The problem with this (and the French do have cars like this as a class of their own and driveable at a younger age than normal ones) is that it means a one-car family would need two, or a two-car family sometimes three, to be able to have one of these and also ICE cars to use for other purposes. Thus they're not very practical.
Plus a lot of people who need only a vehicle capable of these things might actually manage with an even cheaper e-bike or even a pushbike if they live somewhere flat.
If you do have a big car and a runaround it might work for the runaround though.
There was a specification in development for detecting what car was plugged in over the data line associated with the charging cable, although I don't know if it ever went anywhere.
The thread title is switch to electric vehicles, do we really need electric cars with their £1000 sound systems, touchscreen with satnav, audio, phone dock, automatic boot opening, fancy stitching on the upholstery etc etc when the school run, the trip to the supermarket or hospital or garden centre etc could be covered by a reasonably speedy electric golf caddy.
that's coming too... https://www.energy-storage.news/mas...orage-in-uk-and-ireland-co-location-emerging/ says we already have 20GWh of battery storage submitted "with a large pipeline to follow." I think that's just big commercial set-ups, so it's possible that domestic batteries might double that (can't find a figure for domestic installs.) There are also several big pumped-storage systems on the Great Glen which are ready to go.
One of the pumped storage projects is nearly ready to go - Coire Glas, SSE taking the final decision in the next year or so. Loch na Cathrach is behind that, but also much smaller.
Domestic installs, and - crucially - vehicle to grid have a potentially huge impact.
Close, but I had in mind something very basic, like the original mini (Alec Issigonis), with petrol tank replaced by battery and electric motor instead of ICE and drive train up front
bit of string to open the doors from inside, slide the window with your hand to open, push button on floor to start and why do we need go and stop pedals and a steering wheel could we not control it with a games console, my grandson and his mate down the road play a very realistic football match with one, took me 5 mins to realise it wasn’t a real game
Close, but I had in mind something very basic, like the original mini (Alec Issigonis), with petrol tank replaced by battery and electric motor instead of ICE and drive train up front
bit of string to open the doors from inside, slide the window with your hand to open, push button on floor to start and why do we need go and stop pedals and a steering wheel could we not control it with a games console, my grandson and his mate down the road play a very realistic football match with one, took me 5 mins to realise it wasn’t a real game
We have to look to the future, cars built today will be around for the next twenty year, what will the world be like in 20 years time?
20 years ago flat screen tvs barely existed, internet speed was measured in kilobytes and we are still thinking in terms of a box on wheels with a wheel at each corner and a big wheel in front of the driver, a concept that was at least 100 years old
Close, but I had in mind something very basic, like the original mini (Alec Issigonis), with petrol tank replaced by battery and electric motor instead of ICE and drive train up front
bit of string to open the doors from inside, slide the window with your hand to open, push button on floor to start and why do we need go and stop pedals and a steering wheel could we not control it with a games console, my grandson and his mate down the road play a very realistic football match with one, took me 5 mins to realise it wasn’t a real game
People have come to expect certain features in cars these days, even at the lower end of the range. I have a fairly basic Vauxhall that has electric windows, air conditioning, CD player and other features that previously would only have been standard on top of the range models and would have been optional extras on those lower down the range.
We've come a long way since the days when heated rear windows and electric windscreen washers were seen as luxuries.
Close, but I had in mind something very basic, like the original mini (Alec Issigonis), with petrol tank replaced by battery and electric motor instead of ICE and drive train up front
bit of string to open the doors from inside, slide the window with your hand to open, push button on floor to start and why do we need go and stop pedals and a steering wheel could we not control it with a games console, my grandson and his mate down the road play a very realistic football match with one, took me 5 mins to realise it wasn’t a real game
As you are probably well aware that sort of car would not do very well in the safety scores. I agree that some of the features in modern cars are unnecessary, but a lot of the additional size (there’s still no excuse for the proliferation of SUVs though) and weight of cars compared to those 50 years ago has come from the extra safety features which save lives everyday.
Close, but I had in mind something very basic, like the original mini (Alec Issigonis), with petrol tank replaced by battery and electric motor instead of ICE and drive train up front
bit of string to open the doors from inside, slide the window with your hand to open, push button on floor to start and why do we need go and stop pedals and a steering wheel could we not control it with a games console, my grandson and his mate down the road play a very realistic football match with one, took me 5 mins to realise it wasn’t a real game
There is a basic Dacia Spring without a touchscreen (you use your phone for navigation, multimedia etc) and an even cheaper model for Europe (that lacks even things like Air Conditioning) and I think by modern standards, it's as basic as you can get - with keeping various safety (passive and active) features. It's surprising Renault/Dacia isn't bothering to re-test for Euro NCAP as with the safety features it would get higher than one star.
But for a town car, with occasional trips beyond, it's the ideal car and is very well built and specified. You can lease one for about £120 a month, with a £1,000 deposit, and charging may cost you as little as £1.80 on a suitable tariff. If people do an average of 23 miles per day, that's one charge per week - and about £94 a year in charging.
You then need to factor in the insurance and vehicle duty in the future, and maybe £20-30 for serving every couple of years, and job done.
I realise not everyone will want to be seen in a Dacia, but frankly it's the perfect city car with a nice sized boot too. The Ami was always a little too compromised for many, but this is just fine - and if you wanted to buy one outright, I expect they'll be a bargain in the coming years on the second hand market.
The thing is, most people could get by with this car but will still upsell themselves based on what they think they need or how owning a £120/month car reflects on them to their peers.
And, no, I'm not talking about families with 5 kids and other examples where you need a bigger car - like needing to drive 800 miles at a moments notice to visit a sick granny in the highlands of Scotland in winter storms.
I'm dead keen on getting the Renault 5 next year, but must admit the Dacia would probably suit me fine.. No heated seats, but you can preheat the car from the comfort of your sofa so on a modern car with smartphone apps, you don't even need them! Covered in snow? Just preheat and it will melt off in 10 minutes or less, while you finish your warm coffee.
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As you are probably well aware that sort of car would not do very well in the safety scores. I agree that some of the features in modern cars are unnecessary, but a lot of the additional size (there’s still no excuse for the proliferation of SUVs though) and weight of cars compared to those 50 years ago has come from the extra safety features which save lives everyday.
It's true that you don't want to be hit by the very type of car we should be discouraging people from buying! We're not as bad as the USA, but there are still lots of people that think ride height is a measure of status.
People have come to expect certain features in cars these days, even at the lower end of the range. I have a fairly basic Vauxhall that has electric windows, air conditioning, CD player and other features that previously would only have been standard on top of the range models and would have been optional extras on those lower down the range.
We've come a long way since the days when heated rear windows and electric windscreen washers were seen as luxuries.
It’s not meant to be a car, its a town runabout to go shopping, go to diy shop for a few paving stones and a bag of sand, take granny for her X-ray, ten fifteen minute journeys that by looks of Sains. car park and the hospital car park are currently being done by aging ICBs or large SUVs, you don’t need to open your windows or listen to CDs or use the aircon. on a ten minute journey
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It’s not meant to be a car, its a town runabout to go shopping, go to diy shop for a few paving stones and a bag of sand, take granny for her X-ray, ten fifteen minute journeys that by looks of Sains. car park and the hospital car park are currently being done by aging ICBs or large SUVs, you don’t need to open your windows or listen to CDs or use the aircon. on a ten minute journey
Milk bottles are needed in greater quantities and frequencies that alcohol in all but the heaviest drink-consuming households. They also had flimsy aluminium foil caps that could easily leak
As you probably guessed, my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek. I don't recall supermarkets selling milk in glass bottles but perhaps they did at one point. Glass is rather better for the environment, given that it can be reused several times, although there are the logistics of returning the empties to consider.
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I could re-word that as not pushing change harder than both the customers and the suppliers can manage. Push hard enough and people will start to push back. Instead it feels like decision makers think - never mind someone else can pay for it.
If it's such a no brainer then people will do it anyway. I'm quite happy with my fairly new diesel. I'll wait four or five years and then switch to an electric. By then, they will be cheaper and there will be thousands of chargers. I only do 3000 miles per year so the benefit of switching now would be minimal.
The thread title is switch to electric vehicles, do we really need electric cars with their £1000 sound systems, touchscreen with satnav, audio, phone dock, automatic boot opening, fancy stitching on the upholstery etc etc when the school run, the trip to the supermarket or hospital or garden centre etc could be covered by a reasonably speedy electric golf caddy.
park in the supermarket, automatic number plate recognition, plug it in, pay for your shopping and 10kw charge at the same time, drive home.
cost for this disposable household item, well not much more than a couple of TVs and a latest iPhone
There will always be those for whom an individual tailored solution is required, what is needed is a way of replacing all those millions of aging ICEs such as Ford focuses, VW golf's Peugeot 208s etc which are in use today and whose owners simply could not afford an electric car, I will say again, simply could not afford one.
looks like a small no frills runabout may now be available.
There will always be those for whom an individual tailored solution is required, what is needed is a way of replacing all those millions of aging ICEs such as Ford focuses, VW golf's Peugeot 208s etc which are in use today and whose owners simply could not afford an electric car, I will say again, simply could not afford one.
looks like a small no frills runabout may now be available.
Provided the government doesn't do something stupid like slap tariffs on Chinese EVs there will shortly be no end of choice. Stellantis are also bringing out small cars which are the same price whether EV or ICE.
Depending on mileage an EV can pay for itself through fuel and maintenance savings, so people should look beyond purchase price as trh affordability measure.
Which has to drive to you and then from your destination, so using your own EV means less congestion.
I don't think we can get everyone in the UK to give up their car anytime soon as there are so many justifiable reasons to need one (some bigger than others). The key is people not using a car every single time and feeling comfortable to walk, cycle or take a bus or train.
I do think a lot of people could get by with a smaller car than they actually buy and potentially rent a bigger vehicle or get a taxi for specific occasions. Again that would reduce congestion and even things like reducing road wear etc.
But this is a thread about switching to EVs and not about changing from an ICE car to absolutely nothing.
Indeed. Last year I had a four week course of Radiotherapy in a Manchester Hospital and went every day by train and Metro. About £12 a day.
Appointments booked to correspond with train times.
And for appointments at Stepping Hill I go by bus. No charge
Provided the government doesn't do something stupid like slap tariffs on Chinese EVs there will shortly be no end of choice. Stellantis are also bringing out small cars which are the same price whether EV or ICE.
Depending on mileage an EV can pay for itself through fuel and maintenance savings, so people should look beyond purchase price as trh affordability measure.
Why would that be stupid? In my opinion it would be stupid not to.
You have car manufacturers owned by a communist state, who are deliberately priced dumping to destabilise European car manufacturers
Why would that be stupid? In my opinion it would be stupid not to.
You have car manufacturers owned by a communist state, who are deliberately priced dumping to destabilise European car manufacturers
Everything made in China is cheaper because they have the natural resources and labour is cheaper.
Or perhaps they dump electronics on us to destabilise European manufacturers?
Perhaps you should buy nothing from China.
The internal politics of China is not our concern.
It would be stupid to choke off supply of cheap, high quality EVs that will help decarbonise and stop pumping pollutants into the atmosphere.
Why would that be stupid? In my opinion it would be stupid not to.
You have car manufacturers owned by a communist state, who are deliberately priced dumping to destabilise European car manufacturers
The big four car manufacturers in China are state owned, including the maker of MG. BYD is not state owned, privatley owned, partly by US investment firms. Yutong is listed on Shanghai Stock Exchange. Among its many shareholders is CDPQ, the Quebec public pension invetment fund, that thing our current government is trying to copy.
If that is the primary, or even predominant use for a car, then a 22 mile round trip can we easily be accomplished by a £5k second hand Nissan Leaf without any stopping for charging. Granny will also get a safer and less polluted environment for her important journey.
It is when it means that our car industry is closing down, affecting long supply chains and their employees, laying off workers, depressing towns etc. Yes, our car industry should have foreseen this, but I do have a suspicion that China are plaing a long game to exert greater influence over the world, and we have been caught napping.
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