Wrong use of contactless on Reading to Waterloo

[davews]

Just curious.
On my trip down to Winchester yesterday we had a couple of ticket checks. On the Reading to Waterloo train a couple had wrongly got on the train having tapped in on contactless. RPI told them of course that that wasn't valid but suggested they sorted it out when they got to Waterloo. But what actually happens, do the barriers at Waterloo reject a tap out or it lets them out and they get a rather high maximum fare charged? I overheard them being told that at Waterloo they would be charged the fare to the TFL boundary (Feltham) plus the contactless fare to Waterloo. Or would they get a penalty notice? No doubt there are loads of people accidentally doing this as there is nothing other than the PIS inside the train telling them contactless was not valid (which was played on our train) and most times there are no ticket checks, never mind RPIs.

It seemed a profitable day for the RPIs. On the Cross Country train the guard found two offenders just in our carriage, one something to do with a child ticket. And from her accent that guard was going all the way back to Manchester.

 

[JonathanH]

But what actually happens, do the barriers at Waterloo reject a tap out or it lets them out and they get a rather high maximum fare charged? I overheard them being told that at Waterloo they would be charged the fare to the TFL boundary (Feltham) plus the contactless fare to Waterloo.

They will be charged the Reading to Zone 1 LU fare of £15.70 off-peak, £32.10 peak.

While it is not allowed to travel direct from Reading to Waterloo via Wokingham on Contactless, it is entirely legitimate to make a journey from Reading to Waterloo via a route involving travel via Ealing Broadway and London Underground connections. The fares charged reflect this routeing.

 

[Haywain]

It seemed a profitable day for the RPIs.

RPIs or guards?

 

[Hadders]

This is a situation where a customer focused organisation should take a pragmatic approach.

Reading and Waterloo are both in the contactless scheme but you go out of the contactless area travelling between these two station if you take the direct SWR train so technically it's not allowed. Passengers touching in at Reading and touching out at Waterloo will be charged the normal contactless fare (subject to maximum journey times) so there is no revenue loss to the railway.

Details taken, Penalty Fares, Out of Court Settlements and even prosecution could result but this is a situation where a pragmatic approach appears to have been taken. I hope it is SWR policy to take a pragmatic approach and advise passengers accordingly. That would be the right thing to do for passengers and the reputation of the railway.

 

[davews]

RPIs or guards?

Guard on Cross Country, RPI (2 off) on SWR.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Thames99]

How common are ticket checks on Reading to Waterloo trains? I don't think I've ever had my ticket checked on that line.

 

[JonathanH]

Passengers touching in at Reading and touching out at Waterloo will be charged the normal contactless fare (subject to maximum journey times) so there is no revenue loss to the railway.

While I can see the argument for a pragmatic approach, that could be equally confusing though if they can't get off at the stations between Reading and Feltham. Is it just Reading to Feltham where this special approach should be followed? How about Reading to Surbiton via Basingstoke?

What always amazes me is that people are prepared to take a punt on the contactless fare being good value for a given journey outside the zones. I realise that the pricing within London works that way and has been advertised on that basis but putting blind faith in it being appropriate over a longer distance is crazy.

 

[plugwash]

It is possible to make a valid contactless journey from reading NR to Waterloo NR without touching at any intermediate gatelines, but it requires a rather perverse route. Something like Reading to Ealing broadway to Turnham Green to Richmond to Waterloo.

My understanding is that the contactless system does define fares for all origin and destination pairs, though some of them are suprressed in the fare finder because they would only be charged for perverse or invalid journeys.

So, if they just touch out and don't say anything then the system will charge them a fare from reading to waterloo NR. The fare is not published in the fare finder, but I would expect it to be a Reading to Zone 1 mixed-mode fare, the same as if they had travelled from Reading to Waterloo underground (so £32.10 peak, 15.70 off-peak).

I'm not sure what would happen if they confessed to revenue staff at waterloo.

 

[JonathanH]

The fare is not published in the fare finder, but I would expect it to be a Reading to Zone 1 mixed-mode fare, the same as if they had travelled from Reading to Waterloo underground.

Yes, I have done Reading to Waterloo NR via Ealing Broadway on Contactless. That is indeed what is charged, but not because it is the same as Waterloo LU.

It is very obviously a mixed-mode journey at present.

My understanding is that the contactless system does define fares for all origin and destination pairs, though some of them are suprressed in the fare finder because they would only be charged for perverse or invalid journeys.

Yes, although there is no such thing as an 'invalid journey' within the Contactless PAYG area. The only restriction is the maximum journey time

 

[Skiddaw]

How common are ticket checks on Reading to Waterloo trains? I don't think I've ever had my ticket checked on that line.

I was thinking the same. It's been a few years (we relocated to Cumbria in 2019) but we used to travel on that route a fair bit and I, too, don't ever remember having a ticket check on that line.

 

[MrJeeves]

I've been checked on the line between Clapham Jn and Reading on one of the two or threee occasions I've used it, impressively during the middle of Ascot, too. Maybe I just have bad (good?) luck.

 

[davews]

They seem to have roving RPIs on the Reading/Waterloo line and occasional checks by guards. I do that route perhaps once a week and get checked around one in six trips.

 

[SWT_USER]

This was always going to be an issue once contactless was valid between Reading and Paddington. A joined up railway would have done the SWR routes to Reading and Windsor at the same time but as it is Reading isn't even part of the (heavily delayed) first phase of project Oval

I would be surprised if RPI's didn't take details for Penalty Fare or prosecution for this, but pleased if that is the case because it's stupid that contactless isn't valid on this route.

 

[JonathanH]

it's stupid that contactless isn't valid on this route

Not really, as it seemingly takes quite a bit of work to extend Contactless to more routes and TfL don't run services on the Reading to Waterloo line, but it will be interesting to see what people are told at Reading tomorrow with Ealing to Paddington closed.

Even the first phase of Project Oval doesn't go further west than Virginia Water.

 

[SWT_USER]

Not really, as it seemingly takes quite a bit of work to extend Contactless to more routes and TfL don't run services on the Reading to Waterloo line, but it will be interesting to see what people are told at Reading tomorrow with Ealing to Paddington closed.

Even the first phase of Project Oval doesn't go further west than Virginia Water.

TFL don't run services to Gatwick or Luton either, but contactless is valid there.

It is stupid that you have two routes to London from Reading and contactless payments are only valid all the way on one of them. If SWR need a bit of cash for their Christmas party they should have all their RPI's on trains between Reading and Feltham tomorrow taking details for out of court settlements for those attempting to use contactless payments.

 

[Haywain]

TFL don't run services to Gatwick or Luton either, but contactless is valid there.

Luton Airport Parkway, but not Luton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2024 ==

It is stupid that you have two routes to London from Reading and contactless payments are only valid all the way on one of them.

The same could be said of St Albans.

 

[SWT_USER]

Luton Airport Parkway, but not Luton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2024 ==


The same could be said of St Albans.

I didn't know that contactless wasn't valid at St Albans Abbey. They are separate stations though and you can't touch in at St Albans Abbey whereas you can at both Reading and Waterloo.. just not travel between the two. Which is silly..

 

[JonathanH]

You can touch in at Reading and out at High Wycombe now too but that doesn't mean it should be valid to use Contactless via Oxford.

Admittedly there should be prominent signage on platforms 4-6 at Reading about non acceptance of Contactless until it becomes useable there.

 

[SWT_USER]

You can touch in at Reading and out at High Wycombe now too but that doesn't mean it should be valid to use Contactless via Oxford.

Admittedly there should be prominent signage on platforms 4-6 at Reading about non acceptance of Contactless until it becomes useable there.

Not a great comparison though is it?

We're talking about two direct routes to London from the same station. I won't be convinced that there is a sensible reason why contactless payments are valid via one route but not the other, it's just that nobody cares enough to sort it out.

 

[MrJeeves]

You can touch in at Reading and out at High Wycombe now too but that doesn't mean it should be valid to use Contactless via Oxford.

Admittedly there should be prominent signage on platforms 4-6 at Reading about non acceptance of Contactless until it becomes useable there.

Likewise Reading to Gatwick. Quite common to see it happen there too.

 

[JonathanH]

Likewise Reading to Gatwick. Quite common to see it happen there too.

Yes, but anyone doing that is just blind to the fares charged for Contactless between those two stations and substantially overpaying. As I noted above, putting blind faith in the Contactless fares outside London is crazy.

 

[FlyingPotato]

Yes, but anyone doing that is just blind to the fares charged for Contactless between those two stations and substantially overpaying. As I noted above, putting blind faith in the Contactless fares outside London is crazy.

I was once on an XC between Reading and Birmingham, a man who had got on at reading (I think he came from the Elizabeth line) thought he could use contactless all the way to Brum

 

[Skiddaw]

I was once on an XC between Reading and Birmingham, a man who had got on at reading (I think he came from the Elizabeth line) thought he could use contactless all the way to Brum

I can understand it in a way. Actually, why not? It seems such a sensible idea to me- you just tap your card wherever you get on a train and tap again when you get off. Why should it matter where, or how far, you are travelling? I expect I'm missing all sorts of obvious reasons why it wouldn't work....

 

[Haywain]

Why should it matter where, or how far, you are travelling? I expect I'm missing all sorts of obvious reasons why it wouldn't work....

What, like the maximum journey time and maximum fare?

 

[JonathanH]

What, like the maximum journey time and maximum fare?

Ironically, if you think you are going to trigger the maximum journey time, travelling further can result in some extra time.

It seems such a sensible idea to me- you just tap your card wherever you get on a train and tap again when you get off.

Yes, but you are somewhat guessing that the fare charged when tapping off would be reasonable.

 

[Skiddaw]

What, like the maximum journey time and maximum fare?

I knew you lot would tell me why it wouldn't work. Well- I can dream. I still think there must be a viable technological solution...

 

[Hadders]

I knew you lot would tell me why it wouldn't work. Well- I can dream. I still think there must be a viable technological solution...

What fare should be charged if you touch in at Penzance and travel to Wick but fail to touch out.
Then, what fare should be charged if you touch in at Penzance and travel to St Erth but fail to touch out

Penzance, Wick and St Erth do not have barriers.

 

[Starmill]

What fare should be charged if you touch in at Penzance and travel to Wick but fail to touch out.
Then, what fare should be charged if you touch in at Penzance and travel to St Erth but fail to touch out

Penzance, Wick and St Erth do not have barriers.

This is currently what happens on Tap2Go if you touch in at London Waterloo and then "forget" to touch out when you get to Weymouth. You get it for the bargain price of £20.

Of course, with Tap2Go you have to put your real name and address in. These are not available from Contactless taps. Although quite how that'd be verified I don't know.

 

[fandroid]

If the "Railway" is going to introduce contactless in the confusing and drip-feed way that it has, then it should accept that there will be confused passengers and make the "pragmatic" approach apply universally. They should take full responsibility for all confusion and never penalise passengers for being confused. Any payments demanded should simply be the minimum excess that would apply. A grown-up customer facing industry should accept that the system isn't complete until it's actually completed.

 

[JonathanH]

A grown-up customer facing industry should accept that the system isn't complete until it's actually completed.

It is never going to cover the whole country so I'm not sure what can be regarded as complete in this instance, and clearly there is an overhead in installation that prevents a 'big-bang' introduction. There will be a mix of ignorance, chance and carelessness amongst users who think it extends further than it does.

Why is it difficult for passengers to look at information published by the railway, listen to announcements, take not of signs on stations which indicate where Contactless can be used?