Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[absolutelymilk]

No, because it's the second Liverpool, the other one will still be a Pendolino.

The second service won't be running according to Rail Express

 

[norbitonflyer]

No, because it's the second Liverpool, the other one will still be a Pendolino.

In any case, even if they are both 807s, 2x7 > 11

 

[Mollman]

No, because it's the second Liverpool, the other one will still be a Pendolino.

I was replying to the post regarding the 807s being put on Liverpools, but the frequency remaining as is rather than increasing to two per hour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The second service won't be running according to Rail Express

I was replying to the post regarding the 807s being put on Liverpools, but the frequency remaining as is rather than increasing to two per hour.

That won't happen at busy times. Avanti aren't completely stupid.

 

[AndrewE]

I was replying to the post regarding the 807s being put on Liverpools, but the frequency remaining as is rather than increasing to two per hour.

That won't happen at busy times. Avanti aren't completely stupid.

Is that meant to mean that Avanti are bright enough to realise that a second train is needed at busy times - or that the WCML is so crowded that it would be folly to try to put any more paths in? If there are to be more I shall be glad: it would be a pity if Liverpool remains so poorly served, I just wish they and LNR had the resources to run twice-hourly all the day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is that meant to mean that Avanti are bright enough to realise that a second train is needed at busy times? If so I shall be glad: it would be a pity if Liverpool remains so poorly served, I just wish they and LNR had the resources to run twice-hourly all the day.

No, it's meant to mean they won't put 7 car trains on when 11 car are needed.

Avanti aren't good at much but they do generally seem decent at matching capacity to demand.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The second service won't be running according to Rail Express

Isn't the story really that 807s can't be added to the Liverpool route yet because of electrical supply problems north of Crewe?
They might perhaps get some of Avanti's 805s instead for a few services.
Anyway 807s aren't in service yet and will take time to deliver.

 

[AndrewE]

No, it's meant to mean they won't put 7 car trains on when 11 car are needed.

Avanti aren't good at much but they do generally seem decent at matching capacity to demand.

...not! Yesterday the 10, 11, 14, 16 and 17.43 departures from Lime St were all 9-cars and it looks as though a majority were 9-cars on Friday too.

 

[DaveyJones]

Isn't the story really that 807s can't be added to the Liverpool route yet because of electrical supply problems north of Crewe?
They might perhaps get some of Avanti's 805s instead for a few services.
Anyway 807s aren't in service yet and will take time to deliver.

In December there is a definite uplift in the number of services from Liverpool

Realtime Trains | Departures from Liverpool Lime Street all day on 17/12/2024

Train information at Liverpool Lime Street all day on 17/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[AndrewE]

In December there is a definite uplift in the number of services from Liverpool

Realtime Trains | Departures from Liverpool Lime Street all day on 17/12/2024

Train information at Liverpool Lime Street all day on 17/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I suppose 3 trains in the morning is better than nothing! 0604, 0902 and 1004. Maybe the rest haven't been entered yet?

 

[800001]

Isn't the story really that 807s can't be added to the Liverpool route yet because of electrical supply problems north of Crewe?
They might perhaps get some of Avanti's 805s instead for a few services.
Anyway 807s aren't in service yet and will take time to deliver.

They will only just have enough 805s for the services they were ordered for, eg the North Wales Coast.

 

[Skie]

Are you missing the other 04 departures throughout the day?

 

[Bletchleyite]

...not! Yesterday the 10, 11, 14, 16 and 17.43 departures from Lime St were all 9-cars and it looks as though a majority were 9-cars on Friday too.

And were they overcrowded?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2024 ==

Are you missing the other 04 departures throughout the day?

What other 04 departures? On the day of that link there are only the ones mentioned. Though peak extras are better than nothing!

 

[Skie]

What other 04 departures? On the day of that link there are only the ones mentioned. Though peak extras are better than nothing!

Oops sorry, managed to misread them as all departures

 

[Jack Hay]

How are the 807s being pathed? With a top speed of 110mph on WCML they cannot match Pendolino journey times. There is some misleading marketing being put out to the general public saying that with their better acceleration than older trains, the 807s can keep up - but examination of the timetabled paths suggests not. I wonder whether the start of 807-operated services is being discreetly delayed until NR will allow higher speeds for non-tilting trains on some stretches. I've forgotten the technical term for this!

 

[Bletchleyite]

How are the 807s being pathed? With a top speed of 110mph on WCML they cannot match Pendolino journey times. There is some misleading marketing being put out to the general public saying that with their better acceleration than older trains, the 807s can keep up - but examination of the timetabled paths suggests not. I wonder whether the start of 807-operated services is being discreetly delayed until NR will allow higher speeds for non-tilting trains on some stretches. I've forgotten the technical term for this!

The Liverpool that's presently running is in an 807 path, and it feels noticeably slow as a result. Punctual though!

 

[hexagon789]

How are the 807s being pathed? With a top speed of 110mph on WCML they cannot match Pendolino journey times. There is some misleading marketing being put out to the general public saying that with their better acceleration than older trains, the 807s can keep up - but examination of the timetabled paths suggests not. I wonder whether the start of 807-operated services is being discreetly delayed until NR will allow higher speeds for non-tilting trains on some stretches. I've forgotten the technical term for this!

MU speeds (MU - Multiple Unit)

The existing Liverpool service is already 80x timed, albeit based on the MU speed profile. (Bar two 390-timed workings each way.)

The Chester/Holyheads struggle to achieve punctuality over the WCML to Crewe, not so bad in non-tilt 90mph territory.

However, from December the Chester/North Wales paths move departure time back two mins from Euston to compensate for the present 110mph ceiling and slower running in general.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It appears that 805 011 has failed a short while ago; the 12.48 Holyhead to Euston has been cancelled and will start from Chester with just 805 003, which was supposed to couple up there to make a 10 car rake.

 

[poffle]

It appears that 805 011 has failed a short while ago; the 12.48 Holyhead to Euston has been cancelled and will start from Chester with just 805 003, which was supposed to couple up there to make a 10 car rake.

805011 was with 805008 on 1D89 15:02 EUS-HHD last night which was cancelled at Rhyl where it arrived +40.

RTT says the return working 1G00 HHD-BHM was reportedly cancelled between CRE and BHM due to door problems. But there are no timings for any part of 1G00 shown on RTT from yesterday.

Also 1D94 20:02 EUS-HHD was cancelled EUS-CRE due to: A problem with the train (M8)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

...and to compound it, the Chester - Euston but of the above mentioned service also got cancelled; according to a relative who was on it*, they announced at 14.26 that the train manager was stuck on the bit that should have arrived from Holyhead.

*He immediately bailed and caught an alternative service.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

805011 was with 805008 on 1D89 15:02 EUS-HHD last night which was cancelled at Rhyl where it arrived +40.

RTT says the return working 1G00 HHD-BHM was reportedly cancelled between CRE and BHM due to door problems. But there are no timings for any part of 1G00 shown on RTT from yesterday.

Also 1D94 20:02 EUS-HHD was cancelled EUS-CRE due to: A problem with the train (M8)

Why are such new trains having so many issues already?

 

[poffle]

Why are such new trains having so many issues already?

I think many of the issues are the bedding in issues with a new train type. But specifying and purchasing a microfleet of 13 trains with their own software and components means that every train is doing initial troubleshooting for several years. They may have similarities with other 80x trains but they're not identical.

Effectively you've got a compete fleet of test trains pretending to run a service.

I think this is a major flaw of the current model of multiple balkanised Train Operating Companies buying microfleets if train customised to their current very specific need as opposed to buying an off the shelf mass produced model.

Look at trains like the 701s for SWR, how many 701s are being purchased and the amount of troubleshooting to bring those into service.

Hopefully GB rail might sort some of this out.

 

[LordFlashheart]

Caught 1502 Euston to Holyhead yesterday (23/10) with 805013/805004, reservations not working again. Guard, and I paraphrase here, blamed platform staff for having the temerity to open the platform too soon! i.e. 9 minutes before departure and before the train was ready. As it had sat in the platform for 2 hours and 20 minutes before departure it seems strange that they have to wait until the very last minute to load reservations to set the train up.

Other than that a good, on-time run down to Bangor.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

As it had sat in the platform for 2 hours and 20 minutes before departure it seems strange that they have to wait until the very last minute to load reservations to set the train up.

The train might have been sat there for over 2 hours but the guard wouldn’t have been and they are the ones who set up the reservations, the guard might have been delayed on his previous working for example.

 

[LordFlashheart]

Guard said it was down to the driver, surely it is not beyond the capabilities of Avanti to find someone to set the train up in good time?, especially if the incoming guard is delayed, or is that just reflective of Avanti's issues at Euston?

 

[800001]

Guard said it was down to the driver, surely it is not beyond the capabilities of Avanti to find someone to set the train up in good time?, especially if the incoming guard is delayed, or is that just reflective of Avanti's issues at Euston?

At LNER it is the station team who load the reservations. They can be loaded about 25 minutes prior to departure.
Unsure how GWR load there’s

 

[Bletchleyite]

Guard said it was down to the driver, surely it is not beyond the capabilities of Avanti to find someone to set the train up in good time?, especially if the incoming guard is delayed, or is that just reflective of Avanti's issues at Euston?

I have travelled on these a couple of times now and on neither instance were the reservations working, so I think there may be some sort of fault still.

 

[AlterEgo]

I always travel with a reserved seat on Avanti and in 4-5 trips now on an Evero I don't think mine has been loaded once, now I think of it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I've made two "Nevergo" trips so far and in both cases the reservations were not available - although in both cases that was the Euston - Birmingham New Street - Euston diagram rather than one of their intended workings.

 

[baker_06]

First 807 in service Saturday 26th Oct. Should work:

5B25 06:18 Oxley-BHM
1B25 07:21 BHM-EUS
9G11 09:16 EUS-BHM
1B37 11:21 BHM-EUS
5B37 13:27 EUS-Wembley
5G38 17:26 Wembley-EUS
9G38 18:16 EUS-BHM
5G38 20:04 BHM-Oxley