Penalty 128 pounds for what?

[kubaskubas]

3 months ago I was travelling from Staines to Earlsfield, I had a ticket with a change at Clapham Junction, I had to go to the shop and I got off there, the gate opened without a problem and I got out, then they wanted me to show them my ticket, so I showed them and they told me that I would have an investigation, yesterday I got a 128 pound fine, I had a ticket and got off where I was supposed to change but the ticket says Staines Clapham, Clapham Earlsfield, should I write to them or is it better to pay the fine and get it over with? What if I don't pay it? Will they find me by my payment card details? I bought the ticket on the SWR app

 

[SuspectUsual]

Please can you upload copies of any correspondence you’ve received? Please make sure you obscure your name / address and any reference numbers

 

[signed]

How much was your ticket, do you hold any discount?

That sounds like you had a ticket with Break of Journey disallowed

 

[kubaskubas]

Its my ticket and i send soon what they send to my adress

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2024 ==

They send me this

 

[signed]

I am by all means not an expert, but It makes absolutely no sense why you got that (unless you're hiding facts from us)

You had proper right to break your journey as your ticket is without any restrictions to that effect

The thing is that you got a TIR (Travel Irregularity Report) as opposed to a, appealable, Penalty Fare.

This is an out of court settlment so you really need to watch your moves here, they can at anytime rescind the offer and take you to court

 

[flashberry43]

I am by no means an expert but decoding your barcode shows the ticket purchase at 16:15.

I have had a look at historic train times for the day, and you were stopped at 16:56 at CLJ.

When you were stopped, were leaving to break your journey or had you already gone to the shops and were returning?

I ask as there are two trains you might have been on, the 1603 ex Staines that got in at 16:44, or the 16:28 that got in at 16:52. If you were on the latter, that would have been tight going to the shops and back hence I wonder was it before or after the break.

(Perhaps, they suspect you as being on the 1603 thus travelling before you purchased the ticket?).

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does seem strange that the (optional) itinerary is for travel at a time after the OP was stopped.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is an out of court settlment so you really need to watch your moves here, they can at anytime rescind the offer and take you to court

For what?

 

[CyrusWuff]

The first train from Staines to Clapham Junction after the ticket was purchased was at 16:28, arriving at 16:52.

I can see no legitimate reason for a TIR (Ticket Irregularity Report) to have been issued given the only routes that avoid Clapham Junction are to go via Weybridge or to use the District Line between Richmond and Wimbledon. For the avoidance of doubt, neither of those options is valid with the ticket held by the OP.

The only thing I can think of is that the member of staff was somehow unaware that Staines and Earlsfield are on different lines and has concluded that Earlsfield comes before Clapham Junction so the OP must have travelled beyond the validity of their ticket.

As a further point of note, the Anytime Day Single between Staines and both Earlsfield and Clapham Junction is £8.60, so there's no loss of revenue involved either.

 

[signed]

For what?

I don't know, but they seem keen on that .

Agreed it makes absolutely no sense.

 

[AlterEgo]

The only thing I can think of is that the member of staff was somehow unaware that Staines and Earlsfield are on different lines and has concluded that Earlsfield comes before Clapham Junction so the OP must have travelled beyond the validity of their ticket.

It goes to show just how little investigation is done before a letter is sent (in this case, it appears to be none).

 

[CyrusWuff]

It goes to show just how little investigation is done before a letter is sent (in this case, it appears to be none).

Quite. Even if you weren't certain of the geography, you would hope that seeing the two fares are identical would have given them pause for thought before committing, but clearly not.

I'd almost be tempted to let them progress it to Court and put in a claim for costs against them for unreasonable behaviour, though I'd also hope that someone reviewed it and saw that it was nonsense before it got that far.

 

[kubaskubas]

Yes i buy ticket about 16 15 o clock, i buy ticket on 17 08 because i need be in work until 5 o clock but i was need go faster in this day, i stop my journey on clapham and dont come back to station, but on ticket is ANYTIME day single and i can use this ticket faster than 17 08, advise me if it makes sense to write to them to consider all this and send them evidence (ticket and time of purchase), because in my opinion I did nothing wrong for which I should pay these fraudsters,

 

[ikcdab]

On the face of it this seems odd. And no obvious reason why you were stopped.
When you were stopped, what was the exact conversation? It's difficult to believe that after they asked "please can I see your ticket" that the next words were "there is going to be an investigation". It would be human nature to say something like "this ticket isn't valid" or something similar. So can you recall exactly what was said to you?

 

[30907]

More likely someone has looked at the (entirely optional) train times and concluded that you bought the ticket after you boarded the 1628 train. This would have been a breach of the rule that says you must buy before boarding, and is a common fraud.

Anyway, unless you left Staines before 1615, you had a valid ticket.

(Edit: on reflection, and picking up signed's comment, your trip to the shop would have been very speedy if you arrived at CLJ at 1652 but were back at the gateline at 1656....)

I would reply with the screenshot you have just posted, and underline the facts
- the ticket was valid when you boarded
- it was valid to break your journey at CLJ.

You might reasonably ask for a small amount in compensation for your inconvenience - not that you are likely to get it, but it makes the point.

I wouldn't call them fraudsters BTW

 

[signed]

What train did you actually take at Stains? The 1603 or the 1628?

 

[kubaskubas]

I couldn't get on the train at 16:03 because I was there just before 17:00, I left at the station and didn't come back because I took a bus from Clapham to Earlsfield

 

[MotCO]

Have you received any previous correspondence? Often, they ask you for your version of events before issuing a penalty.

 

[kubaskubas]

Train going 25 minutes, for me i dont need pay nothing, i can contact them and we will se what they answer

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2024 ==

Have you received any previous correspondence? Often, they ask you for your version of events before issuing a penalty.

I dont get nothing, just they send me this letter, a young guy stopped me to show him my ticket, I did it without thinking and I was polite, he told me I couldn't leave the station and I still didn't understand it very well because he had a heavy accent, but we didn't talk for long,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2024 ==

you can't get on the train to stanes without a ticket because the gates are always closed and there's an employee standing there, besides I'm not the kind of person who would want to cheat someone, my boss pays for the tickets, so why would I want to save money, can I ask them to apologize and cancel the fine? because I still don't know what I have to pay for since I interrupted my journey at the station where I was supposed to change, and I didn't go any further, I overpaid for the ticket because I didn't go any further, so they didn't suffer any losses through my fault

 

[flashberry43]

Train going 25 minutes, for me i dont need pay nothing, i can contact them and we will se what they answer

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2024 ==


I dont get nothing, just they send me this letter, a young guy stopped me to show him my ticket, I did it without thinking and I was polite, he told me I couldn't leave the station and I still didn't understand it very well because he had a heavy accent, but we didn't talk for long,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2024 ==

you can't get on the train to stanes without a ticket because the gates are always closed and there's an employee standing there, besides I'm not the kind of person who would want to cheat someone, my boss pays for the tickets, so why would I want to save money, can I ask them to apologize and cancel the fine? because I still don't know what I have to pay for since I interrupted my journey at the station where I was supposed to change, and I didn't go any further, I overpaid for the ticket because I didn't go any further, so they didn't suffer any losses through my fault

OP; they can see when tickets are scanned at station entrances. So you work in Staines and were returning to Earlsfield? Do you remember which train you got on at Staines? Was it the 16:03 or 16:28?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2024 ==

16 28 100% there is no way I could get in faster

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2024 ==

I was stopped at 16:58, so I got off the train a few minutes before that time, it took me plus or minus 4 minutes to get to the exit, so everything is correct

Okay, and to go with a final question - playing the part of a disgruntled railway company here to cover thoughts.

You're buying one way tickets daily Staines to Earlsfield, to get home from work, at least from the screenshot above, making use of the break journey clause. Please do not answer this here if incriminating, but, how do you get to work everyday? Not by train? Is this perhaps a silly game of Staines to Clapham (stop the ticket in the morning - break) and then a return?

I have followed this forum for a very long time, and ended up in an incident myself recently (now cleared!) so just wish to stress the railway companies have a great deal of information.

Otherwise, if everything is factual and correct I cannot see anything wrong and I would politely respond with:

Dear <x>,

I comfirm receipt of your letter. As I was simply breaking the journey between Staines and Earliesfield at Clapham Junction, as I am entitled to do; it remains so that I had a valid ticket.

As I was denied entry to my second sector, Clapham Junction to Earlsfield, I request compensation for the bus journey I took, and delay repay to the amount of <y> as I arrived <z> minutes late.

Yours sincerely,

...

 

[signed]

You're buying one way tickets daily Staines to Earlsfield, to get home from work, at least from the screenshot above, making use of the break journey clause. Please do not answer this here if incriminating, but, how do you get to work everyday? Not by train? Is this perhaps a silly game of Staines to Clapham (stop the ticket in the morning - break) and then a return?

The price is the same for a Stained to Earlsfield and Staines to Clapham, as referenced by another post

 

[kubaskubas]

Hi i added post to this forum few times ago, this is link https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/penalty-128-pounds-for-what.272919/#post-6911780

I send email with ask for what i have to pay etc, they dont respond me until today(they have 3weeks) i dont payed fine, today i receive letter, i stop my journey on clapham, had ticket staines-earlsfield, what you think what i have to in this situation, my english isnt good, someone can advise me, better if i admit and pay 180 for prosecutions cost, or go to court and not admit because i just stop my journey, here is photo, big thanks for help

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Sep 2024 ==

And i want also add there is fault with my birth date, there is 4,11 2002 but my is 4,11,2002 it do something?

 

[kubaskubas]

3 months ago I was travelling from Staines to Earlsfield, I had a ticket with a change at Clapham Junction, I had to go to the shop and I got off there, the gate opened without a problem and I got out, then they wanted me to show them my ticket, so I showed them and they told me that I would have an investigation, yesterday I got a 128 pound fine, I had a ticket and got off where I was supposed to change but the ticket says Staines Clapham, Clapham Earlsfield, should I write to them or is it better to pay the fine and get it over with? What if I don't pay it? Will they find me by my payment card details? I bought the ticket on the SWR appI send email with ask for what i have to pay etc, they dont respond me until today(they have 3weeks) i dont payed fine, today i receive letter, i stop my journey on clapham, had ticket staines-earlsfield, what you think what i have to in this situation, my english isnt good, someone can advise me, better if i admit and pay 180 for prosecutions cost, or go to court and not admit because i just stop my journey, here is photo, big thanks for help

And i want also add there is fault with my birth date, there is 4,11 2002 but my is 4,11,2002 it do something?

 

[Kite159]

Sounds like that Susan Gray needs to study the SWR network map. Staines - Clapham - Earlsfield is perfectly fine as per your ticket, unless she expects you to increase the journey time by changing at Twickenham for a Kingston loop service.

You would think someone else would sense check it before laying papers in front of the court.

 

[30907]

On the face of it, this prosecution is completely ridiculous.

It claims that the OP by alighting at CLJ overtravelled on their journey from Staines to Earlsfield.

The route they took is not only valid, it is normally significantly quicker than the alternative via Twickenham. Not only that, it is indicated on their ticket. Break of journey is, of course, permitted.

So @kubaskubas you have not committed any offence and you should not plead guilty. That will mean attending the court, and I would suggest you get a friend to go with you.

However, it would be better to persuade SWR to drop the case - they don't want to be shown up as incompetent, and you don't want to waste your time (unless you want a day out in sunny Bromley).

I suggest a letter like the one flashberry43 drafted upthread, marked with the case reference and "FAO the Prosecutor," saying

(1) your ticket was valid for the route you took and at the time you travelled and for breaking your journey
(2) therefore they should withdraw the case and notify you and the court that they have done this
(3) if they do not do this you will have to plead not guilty in court.

One of our legally-minded people can probably put this better than me!

Meanwhile good luck.

PS I am tempted to wonder if the magistrates will award costs against SWR - in other words, pay you for your day in court. I don't know if that's allowed though!

EDIT: in bold, to the suggested letter. You have shown that you bought the ticket at 16.15 so you were OK to travel on the 1628 - your actual ticket references the 1708 train which might confuse SWR as they appear to be incompetent

 

[Hadders]

Staines to Earlsfield is perfectly valid via Clapham Junction. An Anytime Day Single ticket entitles you to break your journey so it seems you have done absolutely nothing wrong.

I suggest writing to SWR pointing this out and asking them to withdraw the case. If they refuse to do this then you should plead not guilty.

Post a draft of your proposed letter in this thread and we will proof read it for you.

 

[kubaskubas]

Staines to Earlsfield is perfectly valid via Clapham Junction. An Anytime Day Single ticket entitles you to break your journey so it seems you have done absolutely nothing wrong.

I suggest writing to SWR pointing this out and asking them to withdraw the case. If they refuse to do this then you should plead not guilty.

Post a draft of your proposed letter in this thread and we will proof read it for you.

Yes and where i have to send this letter? I sended email and no one answer in one month, i dont have time on waiting, maybe i can call to this number on letter? If not i can go to the court and i will be want to give me my money back for the time I lost plus compensation for the stress and the day off at work

 

[Snow1964]

I dont get nothing, just they send me this letter, a young guy stopped me to show him my ticket, I did it without thinking and I was polite, he told me I couldn't leave the station and I still didn't understand it very well because he had a heavy accent, but we didn't talk for long,

This appears to be the source of the problem, your ticket permits break of journey (so leaving the station to go to shops is ok). The ticket examiner wrongly said you couldn't.

I do not know if she/he was incompetent, poorly trained or simply made a mistake. But if they wrote break of journey on ticket, and wrongly put wrong ticket type, then I can see why the error hasn't flagged.

You simply need to write back saying they appear to have made an error, as you held valid ticket for whole journey, ticket allowed break of journey. Asking for bit of compensation for your time being inconvenienced is also reasonable.

 

[skyhigh]

This appears to be the source of the problem, your ticket permits break of journey (so leaving the station to go to shops is ok). The ticket examiner wrongly said you couldn't.

They are alleging that the OP overtravelled, not that they broke their journey in a manner that wasn't permitted.

 

[kubaskubas]

They are alleging that the OP overtravelled, not that they broke their journey in a manner that wasn't permitted.

What you mean overtraveled