The UK and white elephant stations

[Western 52]

Energlyn and Churchill Park Station doesn't seem to get much use, and a lot of trains don't even stop there. I don't know the usage figures though, but other stations on the line are a lot busier.

 

[Farigiraf]

Or do you just mean that the Cotswold Libe passengers are currently much more satisfied than Han those travelling north/south

Yes, as the XC service is often sub-par. - short forms, cancellations, gaps in service. Hence why a few long-distance service calls towards B'ham at least in the peaks would be useful.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If the station only consisted of the XC part however, people would be upset by the service.

An hourly service* to Birmingham to the north and Cheltenham, Gloucester and Cardiff to the south?

Yep, I can see why they'd be upset(!)

(*The temporary timetable isn't quite hourly, 1tp2h Cardiff-Nottingham and 1tp2h Bristol-Manchester call there).

 

[Sorcerer]

Stratford International is another prime example of a white elephant. Built for HS1 and for Eurostar services to serve East London only to later be abandoned because it made no sense stopping a high speed train a mere seven minutes out of St. Pancras. Even with Southeastern's Javelin services it's an underutilised station, even more so than Ebbsfleet which at least had international services at one point. Much like HS2 they were the symptoms of the UK's problems with long-term thinking with infrastructure projects or going back on some of the original intentions later down the line when it's almost too late.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Worcs. Parkway is definitely a useful interchange and parkway due to its catchment area by rail, and also serves some businesses nearby. It got very lucky with its location on both automobile and rail lines.

I don't think you can say it "got lucky". I'm reasonably sure the people who built it knew there was a motorway and two railways there.

 

[geoffk]

Is the £8.00 daily car park charge possibly the highest across the GB rail network for a station which is set up to be operating as a "parkway" or "park and ride" station? One of the nearest such stations to me is possibly Horwich Parkway where, I believe, car parking is still free to passengers with a valid rail ticket. Similar position, I think, at Liverpool South Parkway and Hazel Grove.

Northern-managed stations in metropolitan areas nearly all have free parking, other than those in the centre of large towns and cities, such as the two Bradford stations and Keighley. I suppose attracting car owners on to trains was seen as a higher priority than making money from car parks.

Does Stratford-on-Avon Parkway qualify for white elephant status? Usage seem to be around 10% of that at Stratford itself.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Northern-managed stations in metropolitan areas nearly all have free parking, other than those in the centre of large towns and cities, such as the two Bradford stations and Keighley. I suppose attracting car owners on to trains was seen as a higher priority than making money from car parks.

None of those were built primarily as 'Park & Ride' stations though, and generally don't have an overabundance of parking spaces. This lack of parking spaces does cause issues for residents in places like Mirfield; Denby Dale; and Shepley- as rail users take up on-street parking spaces once the small station car parks are full.

 

[geoffk]

None of those were built primarily as 'Park & Ride' stations though, and generally don't have an overabundance of parking spaces. This lack of parking spaces does cause issues for residents in places like Mirfield; Denby Dale; and Shepley- as rail users take up on-street parking spaces once the small station car parks are full.

Also Hebden Bridge, where parking was (and probably still is) along the A646 main road. Todmorden car park was extended and I think was full again the next day. I lived at Littleborough and luckily could walk to the station there. But I'm digressing a bit.

 

[takno]

Yes, as the XC service is often sub-par. - short forms, cancellations, gaps in service. Hence why a few long-distance service calls towards B'ham at least in the peaks would be useful.

Most XC services are sub-par, and that definitely already includes the Edinburgh-Plymouths. Nobody is or was ever going to put additional stops on already-overcrowded long-distance trains, causing an even slower journey, so that the train can act as yet another commuter rat-run.

 

[greyman42]

I doubt people from the borders region, places like Duns and Eyemouth, agree.

Regardless of whether they agree, their usage of the station is what matters.
I think the Liverpool to Edinburgh services would have to be reinstated to get a better idea as to its usefulness.

 

[brad465]

Yes, as the XC service is often sub-par. - short forms, cancellations, gaps in service. Hence why a few long-distance service calls towards B'ham at least in the peaks would be useful.

If Worcestershire Parkway has a future as a commuter town towards Birmingham then new dedicated services on top of what already runs through there should be provided to serve it, rather than, as pointed out above, making extra existing trains call that are already overcrowded without the stop. This would however require upgrades to the line, such as extending electrification and/or providing turnback facilities wherever needed in this instance, but this is getting speculative.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Talking of car parking spaces at stations, what is the official numerical parking space allowance at Heald Green railway station, the penultimate station before Manchester Airport on the Styal Line?

 

[Revilo]

Ivybridge in Devon seems to be a bit of a white elephant. Intended partly as a park and ride station from Plymouth, it has suffered from a fluctuating train service and convoluted access from the A38. It’s also quite a way from the town centre.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Talking of car parking spaces at stations, what is the official numerical parking space allowance at Heald Green railway station, the penultimate station before Manchester Airport on the Styal Line?

Just 14 spaces, apparently. Good luck with getting one!

 

[Merle Haggard]

East Midlands Parkway is another one.

The assumption that a lot of people will drive to a parkway station and the get the train doesn't seem to be one that holds up - in practise a lot more people will just drive all the way. You're already in the car anyway.

In the particular case of East Midlands Parkway, you're paying £8 for the parking, plus whatever the train fare is. That's comparable to daily car parking in a lot of places. Not exactly an attractive alternative.

One oddity was that the prospectus described it as 'East Midlands Airport", not even sure it had Parkway in the name. Soon after it opened, one of my mates decided to visit the airport because of an interest in aeroplanes, and I went along, too. I assumed that using the 'Airport' station would make it easy to reach, but from the start there was, it seems, no bus link (possibly a licensed taxi described as 'demand response public transport'). So we went via Loughborough and (unreliable) bus.

Its architecture certainly seems like an 'Airport' station rather than the usual austere 'Parkway' one, too.

 

[D1015]

I would have to respectfully contest the idea of Bow Street being a white elephant station. I took the train to Aberystwyth to go see the Vale of Rheidol's Steam Gala over the August Bank Holiday and both days Bow Street was decently patronised.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Teesside Airport railway station must be high up in the "white elephant" league table.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

One oddity was that the prospectus described it as 'East Midlands Airport", not even sure it had Parkway in the name.

It was however already named 'East Midlands Parkway' when it opened (Monday 26th January 2009).

Teesside Airport railway station must be high up in the "white elephant" league table.

Not opened all that recently though, Sunday 3rd October 1971 wasn't it? (4000 using the station on the first day!)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Teesside Airport railway station must be high up in the "white elephant" league table.

One could say the same about the airport itself, in that case!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Alfreton - reopened in the mid 1970s is not so new now and therefore not strictly a white elephant. I remember it opening as Alfreton and Mansfield Parkway. Has that been a success or is it also a bit of a white elephant?

 

[Merle Haggard]

It was however already named 'East Midlands Parkway' when it opened (Monday 26th January 2009).

Thanks; it was a franchise 'promise' for the 1997-ish original M.M.L. T.O.C. - presumably their franchise contract reflected a credit for the cost of doing this, but they never did. Possibly, when it was re-activated the aim was changed.
As an aside, it meant that there were two stations very close together (the other, of course, being Long Eaton) and, although you can see E.M.P. (or at least the cooling towers) from Long Eaton EMR, slow Sheffields call at both of them.

Alfreton - reopened in the mid 1970s is not so new now and therefore not strictly a white elephant. I remember it opening as Alfreton and Mansfield Parkway. Has that been a success or is it also a bit of a white elephant?

The 'Mansfield Parkway' part was of course replaced by a 'Mansfield without needing to drive anywhere' station on the Robin Hood Line. There's the suggestion on another thread that this might not have been a rip-roaring success, either, so maybe a herd is gathering . .

 

[Purple Train]

Alfreton - reopened in the mid 1970s is not so new now and therefore not strictly a white elephant. I remember it opening as Alfreton and Mansfield Parkway. Has that been a success or is it also a bit of a white elephant?

I used to find it exceedingly useful when heading to Further Northern Parts. I wouldn't call it a spectacular success, but it's definitely not a white elephant - I don't think I was the only person still using it for its original purpose!

 

[ChrisC]

East Midlands Parkway is another one.

The assumption that a lot of people will drive to a parkway station and the get the train doesn't seem to be one that holds up - in practise a lot more people will just drive all the way. You're already in the car anyway.

In the particular case of East Midlands Parkway, you're paying £8 for the parking, plus whatever the train fare is. That's comparable to daily car parking in a lot of places. Not exactly an attractive alternative.

I have never really understood why TrentBarton Skylink Express bus does not call at East Midlands Parkway. It passes right by in the main road and would provide a regular link between the station and East Midlands Airport. It would also give people from the West Bridgford and Clifton areas, including students a link to the station for trains to London without having to travel into the city. I know it would add a few minutes to the Skylink Express timings but so does the diversion off the main road to serve the Clifton tram stop.

Many fares from East Midlands Parkway to a number destinations departing towards the north, popular for leisure journeys, are considerably higher than fares from Nottingham and Derby because Day Returns are often not available.

 

[YorksLad12]

One issue that seems to crop up is the "build it and they will stop trains here" approach. Friends of Askern Station wanted Askern reopening, but the only trains along that route are the Grand Central services. They did suggest that Northern could extend services from Knottingley to Doncaster via Askern, without realising that you can't do that without skipping out Knottingley itself; the line runs behind the station where there is no platform any more. See also Reston, Rotherham Mainline, and others.

If stations were planned with the operators and Network Rail involved from the start, so that service levels were agreed across all parties instead of tacked on hopefully, I wouldn't call them "white elephants".

 

[158756]

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose. Hardly anyone would use it as a P&R for Aberystwyth, as driving in is fine and parking isn't expensive (though it may have a level of that use during the school summer holidays when it gets busy there, and the locals may use it for that on foot). The P&R role will be for going to Shrewsbury or Birmingham without the need to drive into Aberystwyth to park at the station. And people making long distance journeys certainly will look at a timetable and possibly even book an Advance.

This is not, once again, the South East of England, and the standards from that area cannot be applied to it.

Though the published origin-destination data for 2022-23 says nearly half of tickets sold from Bow Street were to Aberystwyth. The next most popular destinations were Shrewsbury, Machynlleth, London Euston and Borth.

 

[Mr. SW]

Re East Midlands Parkway, Maybe a little waiting is in order...

Redeveloping the site of Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power station

Arup, working with Uniper, supported Rushcliffe Borough Council to establish a Local Development Order (LDO) to make the most out of the potential development opportunities on the Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station site. Learn more.

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Operating for more than 50 years, the Ratcliffe-on-Soar power station will close at the end of September 2024. Its buildings, cooling towers and other structures will be decommissioned and demolished, making the site and surrounding land suitable to be redeveloped as a zero-carbon technology and energy hub for the East Midlands. Arup, working with Uniper, the site owner, supported Rushcliffe Borough Council to establish a Local Development Order (LDO) to make the most out of the potential development opportunities of the site.

 

[D Williams]

Not a very useful P&R, but potentially useful for access on foot to Dartmoor. That's now available from the north at Okehampton, but wasn't previously available at all.

Not having a direct access from or to the A38 doesn't help. I wonder if that was in the original plan.

 

[John Luxton]

I think you're misunderstanding the purpose. Hardly anyone would use it as a P&R for Aberystwyth, as driving in is fine and parking isn't expensive (though it may have a level of that use during the school summer holidays when it gets busy there, and the locals may use it for that on foot).

I have seen it used for by people going to and from Aber. If you know the times it probably doesn't matter how frequent the service is if those times suit your needs.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Bristol Parkway on the other hand also opened in the 1970s and has been a resounding success. Maybe for another thread but I wonder what helps a station NOT to be a white elephant?

 

[Merle Haggard]

Bristol Parkway on the other hand also opened in the 1970s and has been a resounding success. Maybe for another thread but I wonder what helps a station NOT to be a white elephant?

Another example of the opposite of a White Elephant - although freight not passenger - is D.I.R.F.T.
Ridiculed as being 'Long Buckby! - back of beyond ha ha no hoper !!. it seems to have been pretty successful after all.
Both it and B.P. are very close to motorways, which is probably the reason for their success.