"Man entered train drivers cabin, switched off breaks and 'began moving controls'"

[357]

If you look at the picture. I really doubt this is an enthusiast. Although you mustn't judge a book by its cover

When I was doing my shunters training, one of the instructors said to the room full of people that if the company ever pushes him over the edge he could isolate every safety system and drive into the buffers at 100mph.

He was an odd character and I was never sure if he was joking or not, but disgruntled ex employees do exist, and as has been proven up thread most people don't hand back keys or uniform.

It's how I've got an entire box full of spare train keys!

 

[Neo9320]

If you get in to the cab of anything and push enough buttons, then something is bound to happen. I’m sure a security review will be forthcoming.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Now one person’s done this it could start happening more and with worse outcomes. People know it’s possible now

 

[12LDA28C]

I am a little surprised that a passenger train would not be "GC xx reld at 03xx by PN" xx" and "PN xx relieve GC xx at the same 03xx".

Certainly in my day we would never leave a train en route unmanned.

(Though, having said that, "Change Cabs" was not unknown which I suppose has the same effect - though only for a couple of minutes.)

Even if this were the case, the 36 minute early arrival of 1S26 at Preston as mentioned by another poster would mean the incoming driver would not be relieved until the scheduled time. Good luck with expecting the driver to wait in the cab for half an hour for their relief to turn up.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

A question I raise is how would the man know how to gain access to the cab? If perhaps he had a T-key or carriage key in hand, or fumbled around the exterior door release button, then it raises the possibility of an enthusiast wanting to get a feel for the controls, even with the risk of getting into trouble. That said though which enthusiast (bar bashers) would really be out at 3.20am at Preston?

The exterior door release button? It's a simple handle, no specialist railway / traction knowledge or equipment would be required to access the cab if it wasn't locked with a T-key.

 

[jfowkes]

To what extent do the video games give sufficient info for the untrained to drive a real engine?

LNER have a good video where one of their drivers plays Train Sim World 4 driving a class 801.

She certainly thought it was a pretty good reproduction of the cab.

Typically simulator fans (train, bus, truck, car or plane) are very demanding when it comes to realism.

 

[12LDA28C]

Now one person’s done this it could start happening more and with worse outcomes. People know it’s possible now

Presumably only people that look at the Lancs Live website or view this forum though. I doubt it will make the News At Ten.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Presumably only people that look at the Lancs Live website or view this forum though. I doubt it will make the News At Ten.

If there’s a second incident, it’ll start to spread wider and quicker.
Might also make the local BBC news thing

 

[duffield]

In this case it is not ill-informed journalists who can't spell, the original BTP press release uses the term "breaks"!

Maybe the BTP press officer is actually a time traveller from a few centuries ago; my previous investigation of this issue found that the words "break" and "brake" were both used interchangeably back in the day, and that also, the use of "break" is arguably more accurate, since the term derives from "breaking the motion" of a moving vehicle.

 

[ExRes]

My money is on him being a Driver Standards Manager

 

[InkyScrolls]

Even if this were the case, the 36 minute early arrival of 1S26 at Preston as mentioned by another poster would mean the incoming driver would not be relieved until the scheduled time. Good luck with expecting the driver to wait in the cab for half an hour for their relief to turn up.

There should be no luck involved. The driver should have remained at the train until relieved. No train can be left 'in service' unmanned.

 

[driverd]

There should be no luck involved. The driver should have remained at the train until relieved. No train can be left 'in service' unmanned.

...meanwhile in the real world...

It happens all the time. What if the driver, heaven forbid, needs to use the bathroom? Is he meant to do a 12 hour shift without access to facilities?

What if the driver needs to replenish something such as water?

Should drivers work (up to) 12 hour night shifts without access to a microwave to heat their dinner?

We're talking about a locomotive here - with no toilet, no microwave, potentially no door locks. As mentioned up thread, on many locos, a key needs to be in to provide essential services to the train (ETS/air). Even if the driver had simply gone into the train to use the bathroom, this incident could still have occurred without the driver knowing. That's before we even consider that the trespasser may have had keys.

 

[43066]

From the picture, it certainly doesnt look like a typical enthusiast

If you look at the picture. I really doubt this is an enthusiast. Although you mustn't judge a book by its cover

What does a “typical enthusiast” look like?

When I was doing my shunters training, one of the instructors said to the room full of people that if the company ever pushes him over the edge he could isolate every safety system and drive into the buffers at 100mph.

He was an odd character and I was never sure if he was joking or not, but disgruntled ex employees do exist, and as has been proven up thread most people don't hand back keys or uniform.

It’s more than a little worrying that anyone employed in the industry would joke about such a thing. He’s probably head of drivers by now, knowing how delightfully dysfunctional the railway industry can be .

 

[InkyScrolls]

...meanwhile in the real world...

It happens all the time. What if the driver, heaven forbid, needs to use the bathroom? Is he meant to do a 12 hour shift without access to facilities?

What if the driver needs to replenish something such as water?

Should drivers work (up to) 12 hour night shifts without access to a microwave to heat their dinner?

We're talking about a locomotive here - with no toilet, no microwave, potentially no door locks. As mentioned up thread, on many locos, a key needs to be in to provide essential services to the train (ETS/air). Even if the driver had simply gone into the train to use the bathroom, this incident could still have occurred without the driver knowing. That's before we even consider that the trespasser may have had keys.

Oh don't be ridiculous. There's a difference between going to the loo for five minutes and disappearing for long enough for someone to break in and starting meddling. Of course they're not expected to have no access to facilities, that's what breaks are for! For the record I'm a driver for a mainline company so I actual do know what I'm talking about.

It’s more than a little worrying that anyone employed in the industry would joke about such a thing. He’s probably head of drivers by now, knowing how delightfully dysfunctional the railway industry can be .

He's not joking. It's certainly possible and very easy to do if you know how.

 

[Efini92]

Circuit breakers aren’t generally called “breaks”, though.

From the appalling standard of writing used in the article I can’t tell whether he was tripping circuit breakers or attempting to release the train brakes!

Unless it’s a millennial thing and we’re not down with the kids

 

[357]

There should be no luck involved. The driver should have remained at the train until relieved. No train can be left 'in service' unmanned.

Not true.

I'm not sure off the top of the head where the line between rule book and company policy is, but many drivers pop to use the on train facilities during extended station stops for example.

When I worked on intensive DOO services, during disruption it was standard to call the signaller and say "If we aren't moving, I'm leaving the cab for 5 minutes to use the toilet".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

There's a difference between going to the loo for five minutes and disappearing for long enough for someone to break in and starting meddling.

From the article - it says he cut the power to the train and tried to release the brakes.

I don't sign 92s, but on an Electrostar pushing the big red emergency stop button will open the VCB. On some it will also drop the pan.

To release the brakes - he could have just been playing with handles.

If you are a driver, I'm not sure why you seem so determined to blame this incident on the driver. Even the RailUK Accident Investigation Branch haven't jumped on the driver for once.

 

[InkyScrolls]

If you are a driver, I'm not sure why you seem so determined to blame this incident on the driver. Even the RailUK Accident Investigation Branch haven't jumped on the driver for once.

Nowhere have I blamed the driver. I was replying to the suggestion that the train had been left with passengers on for an extended length of time, key in, and pointing out that that is not allowed. A few minutes of course, but not half an hour or so.

 

[43096]

No train can be left 'in service' unmanned.

Really? How are you defining ‘in service’? Because there are daily occurrences of trains with passengers not having drivers on board for a period of time e.g. at terminus stations where boarding is allowed well before departure time.

 

[AndyPJG]

Now reported on BBC News-Lancashire

Appeal after man seen tampering with train brakes
(phote) Police have released a CCTV image of a man who may have information that could help their investigation

Police are appealing for information after a man was seen tampering with a train's controls.
It happened at about 03:20 BST on 27 July at Preston Railway Station, British Transport Police said.
A man entered the driver's cabin of a stationary train and "began moving the controls, including turning the electricity off on the train and attempting to switch off the brakes", the force said.
They have released a CCTV image of a man who may have information that could help their investigation and have asked for any witnesses to contact them.

 

[Westinghouse]

Now reported on BBC News-Lancashire

For once, the CCTV picture is of good quality. This individual should get his collar felt fairly quickly I would think. Let's hope that the large economy sized book is thrown at him !

 

[LUYMun]

What does a “typical enthusiast” look like?

A lot of people here seem to think that if someone doesn't wear an anorak, holds a bag, has a camera round their neck and has scruffy hair they’re not an enthusiast. Anecdotally speaking, there really isn't an image of a typical rail enthusiast since we're all different.

 

[AndyPJG]

For once, the CCTV picture is of good quality. This individual should get his collar felt fairly quickly I would think. Let's hope that the large economy sized book is thrown at him !

Copy of CCTV extract from said article:=

 

[Towers]

There has been a recent issue identified of idiots entering cabs and posting their antics on social media, to the point that some TOCs issues internal security memos. The reality of course is that ‘cab security’ has always been a joke, there are plenty of trains in service where anyone can access a cab via a bodyside door by operating a lever or switch having watched crew routinely do the same in full view of the public. There are plenty of older fleets where you’d only have to sneeze at the internal cab door and it’ll come open, and of course the dreaded ‘t key’ remains king, despite it offering next to zero security.

That’s before you start to look at situations where cab doors are left unlocked; how often do you see a freight loco sat somewhere with the external cab doors wide open, whether it be stabled or waiting in a platform en route? It wouldn’t be at all surprising if this chap simply tried a door and found it was unlocked.

 

[Horizon22]

...meanwhile in the real world...

It happens all the time. What if the driver, heaven forbid, needs to use the bathroom? Is he meant to do a 12 hour shift without access to facilities?

All reports are the service arrived early. In such an instance, then without relief and if there is a risk of the train being unsecured if it is unattended, then the driver should simply wait until the booked time for their break. By all means stretch their legs on the platform but security does need to be taken seriously, which most drivers would appreciate.

Nobody is suggesting doing a "12 hour shift" without facilities.

 

[driverd]

All reports are the service arrived early. In such an instance, then without relief and if there is a risk of the train being unsecured if it is unattended, then the driver should simply wait until the booked time for their break.

In TOC land, yes it's as consistent as this. At some FOCs, you make your break fit as convenient. I don't know GBRFs policies so I can't comment on them specifically. There's often a "one size fits all" attitude from people on these forums and it's not always as clear cut as that. I think it's only right to establish the full facts before pointing fingers - perhaps any GBRF driver members could advise?

By all means stretch their legs on the platform but security does need to be taken seriously, which most drivers would appreciate.

What about to access toilets, though? If there is a toilet adjacent on the platform, the driver could be gone for 10 mins or so and that's more than enough time for someone to access a cab (especially considering that they may have keys).

Nobody is suggesting doing a "12 hour shift" without facilities.

Again, though, the point I was making is that, at some operators, the break structure is not as clear cut as RELD by at xx.xx.

 

[GordonT]

I think it's only right to establish the full facts before pointing fingers - perhaps any GBRF driver members could advise?

What about to access toilets, though? If there is a toilet adjacent on the platform, the driver could be gone for 10 mins or so and that's more than enough time for someone to access a cab (especially considering that they may have keys).

Both the above observations seem very pertinent. This episode does, however, illustrate that even at the ungodly hour of 0320hrs in the desolation of Preston station there may be some opportunist pillock with nothing better to do in life than beggering around with the controls of an unattended loco, unlikely as it may have seemed before the benefit of hindsight was available to subsequent commentators.

 

[43066]

All reports are the service arrived early. In such an instance, then without relief and if there is a risk of the train being unsecured if it is unattended, then the driver should simply wait until the booked time for their break.

Very much depends on location. If there’s a local instruction allowing you to leave the train unlocked and unattended, you absolutely will do so.

 

[Towers]

Very much depends on location. If there’s a local instruction allowing you to leave the train unlocked and unattended, you absolutely will do so.

Where on earth would there be an instruction that specifically says to leave a train unlocked?! Certainly not in a platform at a major London terminus I shouldn’t think!

 

[NSEWonderer]

Reminds me of an individual that gets Into the rear end cab of a passenger service to honk the horn and depot whistle.

 

[357]

Where on earth would there be an instruction that specifically says to leave a train unlocked?! Certainly not in a platform at a major London terminus I shouldn’t think!

At my old place about 80% of cabs were left unlocked at terminus stations without a driver. To the extent many drivers would try to open the cab without a T key first before getting it out.

 

[12LDA28C]

Where on earth would there be an instruction that specifically says to leave a train unlocked?! Certainly not in a platform at a major London terminus I shouldn’t think!

I'd suggest that at plenty of London termini trains are left unattended and unlocked. Unless drivers are specifically told to lock a cab door (eg with a T-key) then the default state would be unlocked and if there's no driver in the cab then they are unattended and unlocked.