ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

[snookertam]

I don't think many claim it is. It was still the right thing to do without question in my view.

They were going to have to do it at some stage as no private operator would have touched ScotRail. First we’re involved because they were Scottish and they felt having it in their portfolio added some prestige and value, and to be fair actually did relatively well compared to Abellio.

The issue was however that when they bid for the new franchise they’d already seen under the hood and were realistic with what could be achieved, unlike Abellio who offered the world and inevitably couldn’t deliver.

ScotRail in its current form is massively loss making. You’d have to curtail the service radically outside the central belt for it to even approach breaking even, which would be politically disastrous (although it could be argued eminently sensible given the passenger numbers involved).

 

[Bletchleyite]

ScotRail in its current form is massively loss making. You’d have to curtail the service radically outside the central belt for it to even approach breaking even, which would be politically disastrous (although it could be argued eminently sensible given the passenger numbers involved).

It is natural that rural passenger railways are subsidised. They are in England and Wales as well.

ScotRail is never going to break even, nor should it. The idea of an unsubsidised railway died at the end of Beeching's era.

 

[snookertam]

It is natural that rural passenger railways are subsidised. They are in England and Wales as well.

ScotRail is never going to break even, nor should it. The idea of an unsubsidised railway died at the end of Beeching's era.

Indeed. The Scottish Government seem not to realise this though.

 

[Butts]

No, the ROSCOs will continue as is.

Is this the elephant in the room that everyone conveniently swerves, not including provision of rolling stock effectively means Nationalisation is an illusion ?

With regard to Scotrail the best days were under Firsts stewardship in my view.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Completely agree about first scotrail being the best days, certainly in my lifetime

 

[sannox]

They were going to have to do it at some stage as no private operator would have touched ScotRail. First we’re involved because they were Scottish and they felt having it in their portfolio added some prestige and value, and to be fair actually did relatively well compared to Abellio.

The issue was however that when they bid for the new franchise they’d already seen under the hood and were realistic with what could be achieved, unlike Abellio who offered the world and inevitably couldn’t deliver.

ScotRail in its current form is massively loss making. You’d have to curtail the service radically outside the central belt for it to even approach breaking even, which would be politically disastrous (although it could be argued eminently sensible given the passenger numbers involved).

Much of the central belt services don't make profit either. Scotrail is pretty much heavily loss making

 

[chuff chuff]

As an insider I would generally agree about first running scotrail especially with Mary doll fully at the reins,they were a shower to work for especially later in their time there.

 

[GordonT]

Completely agree about first scotrail being the best days, certainly in my lifetime

I think the visible impression to users is more down to the team who operate the services rather than the owning group.
First had Steve Montgomery as MD and he and several of his colleagues were ex BR trained and promoted internally through the ranks.

 

[AMD]

Much of the central belt services don't make profit either. Scotrail is pretty much heavily loss making

In the 'Route by route Key Metric Assessment' that was published by ScotRail in Sept 2021, the only route that covered its costs was the E&G bringing in an average of £2.24 per passenger (pre Covid) and after that only the Edinburgh/ Glasgow to Aberdeen routes came close (at 23p/ 15p subsidy per passenger).

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/media/3644/download?inline

 

[sh24]

Is this the elephant in the room that everyone conveniently swerves, not including provision of rolling stock effectively means Nationalisation is an illusion ?

With regard to Scotrail the best days were under Firsts stewardship in my view.

With the need for private sector investment to kick start the economy, keeping the ROSCO's as they are will be key. The government is massively constrained in its ability to fund investment without the private sector.

 

[David M]

Cancellations of Edinburgh arrivals on Saturday 20th July. From the following locations with total cancellations in brackets:
Tweedbank (15)

I think this must relate to the 'normal' timetable as I travelled from Tweedbank to Edinburgh (and back) last Saturday (20th) and I think every train ran, albeit with some slight delays for several services.
RTT seems to confirm this.

 

[hexagon789]

I think this must relate to the 'normal' timetable as I travelled from Tweedbank to Edinburgh (and back) last Saturday (20th) and I think every train ran, albeit with some slight delays for several services.
RTT seems to confirm this.

Other than the current reduction to an hourly service off-peak, I don't think Saturday was affected on the Borders Line bar some modest delays here and there.

On Sunday, the service was reduced to one train every three hours for most of the day, but even that wouldn't make 15 cancellations.

 

[GordonT]

Other than the current reduction to an hourly service off-peak, I don't think Saturday was affected on the Borders Line bar some modest delays here and there.

On Sunday, the service was reduced to one train every three hours for most of the day, but even that wouldn't make 15 cancellations.

I'd assumed that the website was defining the base timetable as the timetable currently in place but if not I stand corrected. I'll monitor the journeychecker site this weekend as being a better indicator of cancellations.

 

[Falcon1200]

The current Mon-Fri service whilst not as dire as weekend operations is still of concern.
A quick snapshot look at www.journeycheck.com/scotrail/ is enlightening.
Currently for today (Wednesday 24th) showing 22 Train Cancellations, 12 Other Train Updates and 36 Train Formation Updates. Nearly all of these are shown as being down to shortage of staff.

22 cancellations is not good, but spread over the whole of Scotrail's service so far today, surely nowhere near enough to necessitate such drastic action as running 0700-1900 only, making the railway effectively useless for many travellers? Although I appreciate there is no official word on this as yet (and hopefully there won't be as it will not happen!)

 

[hexagon789]

I'd assumed that the website was defining the base timetable as the timetable currently in place but if not I stand corrected. I'll monitor the journeychecker site this weekend as being a better indicator of cancellations.

It should be, and I did look at it on Saturday and don't recall seeing the number of cancellations you mention; but of course it changes through the day.

I do remember this post defining the Saturday and Sunday cuts:

ScotRail is issuing travel advice to customers ahead of a busy sporting weekend, with two major events taking place in addition to a number of service alterations which could impact on travel.

This weekend will see the final two days of play at The Open Championship at Royal Troon, while Rangers will take on Manchester United at Murrayfield stadium in Edinburgh on Saturday.

To help golf fans catch the action at The Open, the train operator is providing extra services and more seats during busy times to and from Troon over the weekend. Between the practice day on Wednesday and the first day’s play on Thursday, 50,000 Open spectators travelled with ScotRail.

With kick-off at 16.00 on Saturday at Murrayfield for the pre-season friendly between Rangers and Manchester United, with an expected attendance of 57,900, ScotRail is also advising customers travelling to Edinburgh that trains will be much busier than usual, both before and after the match. Customers not attending the football are being encouraged to consider travelling at quieter times.

With ScotRail currently operating a temporary timetable due to fewer drivers being available for rest day working (as is their contractual right) during an ASLEF pay dispute, this weekend will see a number of additional alterations to train services which may impact on journeys.

On Saturday, 20 July, customers are advised of the following changes to ScotRail services:

• Glasgow - Alloa service will be reduced from half-hourly to hourly. Trains will depart from Alloa at 45 minutes past the hour and from Glasgow at 49 minutes past the hour.
• Most services between Edinburgh and North Berwick will be withdrawn, with a bus replacement in operation for most of the day. Trains will operate the 0639, 0716, 0753, 0833 and 2222 North Berwick to Edinburgh and the 2140 and 2314 Edinburgh to North Berwick services.
• Glasgow - Newton service will be reduced form half-hourly to hourly with departures from Glasgow at 45 minutes past the hour and from Newton at 19 minutes past the hour.

On Sunday, 21 July, the following changes will take place to ScotRail services:

• Edinburgh – Tweedbank will operate every three hours rather than hourly. Departures from Tweedbank to Edinburgh will be at 0947, 1248, 1547 and 1848 and from Edinburgh to Tweedbank at 1113, 1411, 1712, 2011 and 2210
• Edinburgh – North Berwick services will operate every two hours rather than hourly. The first service from Edinburgh will be at 0937 and the first service from North Berwick will be at 1024.
• Edinburgh – Dunblane services will operate with two services every three hours, rather than hourly. The first service Edinburgh will be at 0935 and the first service from Dunblane will be at 0945.
• Glasgow – Cumbernauld will be withdrawn. Unfortunately, bus replacement is not possible.
• Glasgow – Lanark will operate every two hours rather than hourly. The first service from Glasgow Central 1020 and the first service from Lanark will be at 1121.
• Wemyss Bay – Whinhill will be served by a replacement bus to allow onward connections to the Gourock – Glasgow service.

 

[Devon Sunset]

It should be, and I did look at it on Saturday and don't recall seeing the number of cancellations you mention; but of course it changes through the day.

I do remember this post defining the Saturday and Sunday cuts:

The North Berwick cancellations were not shown on journey check so I'm guessing the same was true of others. They would have been removed from the timetable the night before similar to the P coding that was happening in England previously. It's all smoke and mirrors.

 

[Porty]

Considered City link ?

Or Ember.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2024 ==

The North Berwick cancellations were not shown on journey check so I'm guessing the same was true of others. They would have been removed from the timetable the night before similar to the P coding that was happening in England previously. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Yes, last Saturday, from memory, only the first three morning trains ran and the last two - so no train service whatsoever between 9 am and 9 pm, just a replacement bus. These went into journey planners on the Friday evening prior. A different form of "cancellation" to one made on the day. It's still no train running and the public often regards it as a cancellation when no train runs.

I believe this was done to ensure Troon services and Glasgow to Edinburgh services for Man Utd v Rangers at Murrayfield.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I believe this was done to ensure Troon services and Glasgow to Edinburgh services for Man Utd v Rangers at Murrayfield.

It wasn’t. It’s likely to happen again.

 

[Tayway]

In the 'Route by route Key Metric Assessment' that was published by ScotRail in Sept 2021, the only route that covered its costs was the E&G bringing in an average of £2.24 per passenger (pre Covid) and after that only the Edinburgh/ Glasgow to Aberdeen routes came close (at 23p/ 15p subsidy per passenger).

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/media/3644/download?inline

Out of interest is there an updated version of this? Would be interesting to see how different routes have recovered since COVID.

 

[hexagon789]

Out of interest is there an updated version of this? Would be interesting to see how different routes have recovered since COVID.

It must be an old one, I've seen a more recent one that showed even the E&G was requiring a subsidy of something like 2p per passenger to say nothing of the Montrose/Inverurie and Glasgow QS/Anniesland which had the two highest amounts of subsidy per passenger by route.

 

[kkong]

Or Ember.

Ember don't (yet) run to Aberdeen - they are due to commence later this year.

However, there are FlixBus services to Aberdeen.

 

[jagardner1984]

The responses in this thread are a pretty good illustration of why politicians want to get a million miles from operational railway running. Because in reality, with so many local authorities close to bankruptcy, it is hard to see where the cuts come to deliver large scale public sector pay increases, of which Scotrail is now a part. Doubtless we will have further similar conversations as the Junior Doctors strike plays out in England, or Teachers' Strikes in Wales. My local councillor wrote an interesting article about the scale of what was needed outside protected legally mandated services, and the resulting cuts to services.

It is also notable how some of the posts here seem to suggest Scotrail's operational performance is John Swinney or Fiona Hyslop's direct responsibility, in a way I do not sense regarding for example LNER and Keir Starmer / Louise Haigh, or Rishi Sunak / Mark Harper before them. I don't think there would be any significant difference in the operational performance of Scotrail were Douglas Ross or Anas Sarwar First Minister, and so I'm not sure the political jibes in any direction are helpful here.

Whilst I am obviously supportive of workers using their right to strike or withold labour in other ways such as this, I do wonder, given the scale of the economic challenges, and no sight of the taps being turned on from Westminster, whether this will ultimately be self defeating, in so far as the public will simply adjust to a weaker service provision and more will turn to the roads to get where they need to be. Those which, certainly from the multi year closures of significant chunks of the network, are also very much on their knees. Presumably, if there were cheap and easy ways of recruiting and training significantly more staff and pay the staff they have more, those would have been done some time ago.

 

[Rockhopperr]

The responses in this thread are a pretty good illustration of why politicians want to get a million miles from operational railway running. Because in reality, with so many local authorities close to bankruptcy, it is hard to see where the cuts come to deliver large scale public sector pay increases, of which Scotrail is now a part. Doubtless we will have further similar conversations as the Junior Doctors strike plays out in England, or Teachers' Strikes in Wales. My local councillor wrote an interesting article about the scale of what was needed outside protected legally mandated services, and the resulting cuts to services.

It is also notable how some of the posts here seem to suggest Scotrail's operational performance is John Swinney or Fiona Hyslop's direct responsibility, in a way I do not sense regarding for example LNER and Keir Starmer / Louise Haigh, or Rishi Sunak / Mark Harper before them. I don't think there would be any significant difference in the operational performance of Scotrail were Douglas Ross or Anas Sarwar First Minister, and so I'm not sure the political jibes in any direction are helpful here.

Whilst I am obviously supportive of workers using their right to strike or withold labour in other ways such as this, I do wonder, given the scale of the economic challenges, and no sight of the taps being turned on from Westminster, whether this will ultimately be self defeating, in so far as the public will simply adjust to a weaker service provision and more will turn to the roads to get where they need to be. Those which, certainly from the multi year closures of significant chunks of the network, are also very much on their knees. Presumably, if there were cheap and easy ways of recruiting and training significantly more staff and pay the staff they have more, those would have been done some time ago.

Yes. Managed decline. The absolute truth is nobody in power actually cares. Hardly any of them got there on merit and hard work. Anyone who believes otherwise is deluded. It’ll be fun seeing how well that works, in all corners of the public sector. Less demand on the railway makes it easier to make it look like it’s working well. Unfortunately a lot of people still believe what they read in the media.

 

[Falcon1200]

It is also notable how some of the posts here seem to suggest Scotrail's operational performance is John Swinney or Fiona Hyslop's direct responsibility

I'm not sure the political jibes in any direction are helpful here.

If politicians (of whatever colour) take credit for (and get their fizzogs in the news) for positive policies such as nationalising Scotrail and abolishing peak fares, they should not be surprised to receive flak when things go pear-shaped. And while Scottish Ministers do not of course personally run Scotrail, they do hold the purse strings and set policy at the highest level.

 

[chuff chuff]

Unions been invited to talks on first of August.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Let's hope for sensible grown-up dialogue on both sides then

 

[Leven Railuser]

x.com

x.com

Further changes to scheduled services for this coming Sunday (28th July)

 

[Sealink]

The responses in this thread are a pretty good illustration of why politicians want to get a million miles from operational railway running. Because in reality, with so many local authorities close to bankruptcy, it is hard to see where the cuts come to deliver large scale public sector pay increases, of which Scotrail is now a part. Doubtless we will have further similar conversations as the Junior Doctors strike plays out in England, or Teachers' Strikes in Wales. My local councillor wrote an interesting article about the scale of what was needed outside protected legally mandated services, and the resulting cuts to services.

It is also notable how some of the posts here seem to suggest Scotrail's operational performance is John Swinney or Fiona Hyslop's direct responsibility, in a way I do not sense regarding for example LNER and Keir Starmer / Louise Haigh, or Rishi Sunak / Mark Harper before them. I don't think there would be any significant difference in the operational performance of Scotrail were Douglas Ross or Anas Sarwar First Minister, and so I'm not sure the political jibes in any direction are helpful here.

Whilst I am obviously supportive of workers using their right to strike or withold labour in other ways such as this, I do wonder, given the scale of the economic challenges, and no sight of the taps being turned on from Westminster, whether this will ultimately be self defeating, in so far as the public will simply adjust to a weaker service provision and more will turn to the roads to get where they need to be. Those which, certainly from the multi year closures of significant chunks of the network, are also very much on their knees. Presumably, if there were cheap and easy ways of recruiting and training significantly more staff and pay the staff they have more, those would have been done some time ago.

Indeed - in Scotland when there were no Sunday services a few years back people just got used to it.

 

[kkong]

Indeed - in Scotland when there were no Sunday services a few years back people just got used to it.

The inter-city market in Scotland has been - and continues to be - handed on a plate to the coach operators.

 

[Peter0124]

The inter-city market in Scotland has been - and continues to be - handed on a plate to the coach operators.

How busy are Citylink 900 services roughly between Glasgow and Edinburgh now that under 22s get it free?